From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 9:05 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Storm Surge stuff K... I sort of lost track of the stuff I was supposed to have uploaded to the site over the past few weeks, so anyone who had sent stuff to me to upload that you find hasn't been uploaded, send it to me again and I'll be sure to get it up this time. -- ChrisTheS From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:47 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - alternatives for fins. Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > Something relating to the clicks and whistles of their speech would > > probably develop as well, but I can't think of what it would be. > > > > (wait, I just realized, this if for the title of the book, ain't it? :) > > Can't we just call the book "sqeeee-click-click-ech-sqeee noise>click-click"? We could design the cover so that it incoporates sound: Press a button and the dolphins sing out the title to you. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Matrix Kintaro Oe wrote: > It all gets explained away nicely if you take Werewolf cosmology seriously > though. The machines were just Weaver spirits, using the _souls_ of > humanity to power their... whatever. It would make for a fun Umbral realm, > I must say. That would work. I have been given to understand by thoroughly unreliable sources that the computers were originally supposed to be using the humans for *processing* power -- which is marginally believable, and has been explored in some other SF outlets. However, it was decided the explanation was too complicated and so they went forthe "simpler" (but stupider) explanation found in the film. >I would have thought that they would have designed a jack they can >electrocute you through, just in case, but deadly under normal >circumstances is still iffy. It's like making an electric fence that will >kill your cows. You _want_ them alive, but you also want them contained. Given the problems they had in the past with people "waking up" because they no longer believed the illusory reality of the Matrix, I would guess that it was simply easier for them to kill people naturally (and have the system designed to handle that) and then replace people as necessary. Especially since they could magically "liquify the dead" and feed people with them. ;P Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com > > > >Since the film > >implied that the neural jack technology could only be installed by the AIs > >(you'll > >note that the two characters who were not born in the Matrix do not possess > >jacks), it seems logical to me that the AI would design a jack which would > >*explicitly* be deadly (as a security precaution). > > I would have thought that they would have designed a jack they can > electrocute you through, just in case, but deadly under normal > circumstances is still iffy. It's like making an electric fence that will > kill your cows. You _want_ them alive, but you also want them contained. > > - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 > the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion > > Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:40 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans David Chart wrote: > You're wrong. You *might* need his permission to actually call the book > that, but you might not. You're right, because Brin doesn't claim trademark to the term "uplift". > Brin doesn't write RPGs, so the chances of > trademark confusion are reduced. You couldn't call an RPG STAR WARS -- even if they had never been a STAR WARS RPG and your game was completely different from Lucas' movies. A court would almost certainly find against you if Brin had a trademark on UPLIFT for his novels and you used it as the title for an RPG (particularly if your RPG dealt with similar concepts). > Copyright is completely irrelevant here. Right. > Also, it is not normal practice in book publishing to trademark everything > in sight, and you cannot trademark a correctly spelled word (hence all the > funky mis-spellings in product names), Wrong. You can trademark words, and this is done all the time. What you can't do is trademark a correctly spelled word which describes the product you're selling. You couldn't trademark BURGER, for example, if you're a McDonald's-type chain. You could trademark BURGER KING, though -- which, of course, Burger King has done. You could also -- probably -- trademark a "BURGERZ!" mark (and that's why you see funky misspellings for trademark purposes). > so there's unlikely to be any > problem at all. (Good example: Traveller. As I type, that is not a > trademark, as it is the standard UK English spelling. In the US, it is a > trademark of, IIRC, Far Future Enterprises. A few years back a Fighting > Fantasy book called "Starship Traveller" was published in the UK. GDW sent > a cease-and-desist letter. The response was the relevant page from an > English dictionary.) And the response was incorrect -- at least under US law. And, I suspect, under UK law, as well. GDW could have asserted a legitimate trademark over the word "Traveller" in order to describe an SF roleplaying game. The trick would be showing that there was any chance that "Starship Traveller" would infringe that mark -- and it probably wouldn't (since it wasn't, strictly, an RPG in the same sense as Traveller -- and, further, was probably distinct from the Traveller game in other ways, as well). > < If you doubt me, contact his publisher and ask them. I'm > > certain they will be more than happy to go into detail about what is > > needed to obtain permission to use the word in that way, as they are the > > ones who would be handling the legalese on his behalf, most likely. > > Very unlikely indeed. Brin almost certainly has an agent, who would handle > the legalese were there any to be handled. Not necessarily. It is very possible that a publisher would hold the trademarks. Unlikely, but possible. Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:32 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans Dracondis wrote: > He does hold a copywrite on the concept of 'Uplifts', as it applies to animals > brought from to sentience from pre-sentience. If you doubt me, contact his > publisher and ask them. No. He owns a copyRIGHT to his Uplift novels. You can't copyright *concepts* at all. And even if you could, the concept of "animals which have been made sentient" predates his publishing career by several hundred years. More recently you don't have to look any farther THE PLANET OF THE APES to find a pre-Brin use of the concept. If Brin actually did have a copyright to the word "uplift" or the concept of "uplifting", BLUE PLANET is already screwed -- they use the term in the Player's Handbook. Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans Dracondis wrote: > The term 'Uplift' and all its various tense alternates are copywritten to > David Brin, the author who came up with that term in his books 'Startide > Rising' and 'The Uplift War'. You mean trademarked, not copywritten. And, furthermore, he doesn't appear to have a trademark on that term at all. He does not claim it as a trademark on his webpage. It is not claimed as a trademark in any of his books. Nor does the USPTO show him as having a registered claim to the term. Extant UPLIFT trademarks: 1. For tea kettles. 2. St. John's Wort 3. Some sort of video game. 4. Computer software for generating 3-d terrain 5. Uplift U: Alcohol/drug abuse counseling services. 6. Project Uplift: charity 7. Hurri-Bolt Inc. Uplift Solutions: metal building materials 8. TIME:RIDER SINGAPORE AIRLINES CARGO UPLIFT AS BOOKED: cargo transport services 9. clothing and airport transport services (an interesting combination) 10. Unique Uplift: women's wear 11. dietary supplement 12. Program Uplift: investing 13.Uplift: electro-medical devices for rebuilding muscle tissue 14. cosmetics and toiletries 15. Super-Uplift: lingerie, etc. 16. Gossard Super-Uplift: lingerie, etc. 17. Clinitron Uplift: fluidized patient support apparatus Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 3:33 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - alternatives for fins. > Something relating to the clicks and whistles of their speech would > probably develop as well, but I can't think of what it would be. > > (wait, I just realized, this if for the title of the book, ain't it? :) Can't we just call the book "sqeeee-click-click-ech-sqeeeclick-click"? > - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 Gar http://www.irishgaming.com/warpcon http://chrysanthemumRoad.tripod.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 3:06 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Netrunning (was: Cetaceans) >1) There is a doctor who is going to be implanting a microchip that will >record his nervous impulses as he does various things, at which point he >will attempt to play the signals back and see if his body reacts in the same >way (say, if he recorded his arm moving, see if his arm moves when the >signal is played back...or if he pricked his finger, see if he feels it >again). Until his experiments are finished, anything is just speculation. >http://www.msnbc.com/news/394441.asp?cp1=1 Sure, speculation indeed, but that doesn't mean there isn't something like _informed_ speculation. >2) Most of this discussion seems to be based on Shadowrun's decking. IIRC, >in Shadowrun the Decker's soul, spirit, mind, whatever actually leaves the >body and goes out into the Matrix. Actually no, there was nothing like that. The decker sat there and their soul/mind/anima didn't do anything. That was actually addressed and exploited in Virtual Realities in the form of sculpted systems. [snip] >With that being said, it is a simple matter to filter >out signals that would cause harm or damage. This would include, obviously, >pain. For it to be intentionally worked into the system is just silly. In >the case of controlling remotes, the whole idea is that remotes are >disposable and cheaper than losing a person. You don't need to be able to >"feel" how much damage it's taken - if it goes boom, it goes boom. Besides, >no network signal is going to be strong enough to harm the actual interface >hardware, which eliminates the possibility of sending electric shocks or >anything like what you see in stereotypical cyberpunk. This leaves the >possibility of custom-hacked code that causes problems for the jacked in >user - basically, Snow Crash. Exactly. >4) Most nearly any technology that is able to map over and interface with >the human brain is going to allow for sophisticated enough software to be >developed that can mimic the human brain. Thus, expert systems and neural >networks will be able to do some jobs more accurately and faster than >humans - jacked in or not. Give a human and an AI control over two >jumpcraft, the AI will outreact the human every time. The only thing they >may not be able to do is act unpredictably (to Justin: think Executor drone >^_^) Note, I have not yet gotten to the technology sections of the BP books, >so I don't know the state of BP computer technology. You've pretty much got it right there, actually. As I said, I recommend borrowing computer agents and whatnot from Trinity for more flavor and fun. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 3:08 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - alternatives for fins. > > e) a better title than 'Fin' > >Yes. So would I. Unfortunately, the only other title I've been able to >come up >with is "Cetacean" -- which is only marginally better. Thoughts on this >one, >folks? some derogatory ones might be "flipper" or "tuna" (as in dolphin-safe...) Something relating to the clicks and whistles of their speech would probably develop as well, but I can't think of what it would be. (wait, I just realized, this if for the title of the book, ain't it? :) - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 2:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - non-fiction uplifing >Speaking of which, does anyone know any non-fiction books which deal with >possibility of uplifiting other species through genetic manipulation? The wonderful magazine Analog had an article about that once, but alas, I don't remember in what issue. Their website (http://www.analogsf.com) might have that information, I dunno. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 2:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans > > So you're at the helm for this, Mr. Bacon? I was wondering. What's your > > preliminary ETA? > >I haven't heard a firm release date. The manuscript is due in April -- >so sometime >*after* that. ;) You sure you can't just send one back in time for an interested friend? :) >Quite right. It's just silly for me to have not already incorporated >this into my >outline here, considering that I've spent the past six months begging >and pleading >with my editors at other companies to give me the space to do just that >with other >games. I consider hands-on, practical information (like "campaign >structures" and >"how do I play this guy?") to be the key to successful setting design. Indeed. That's something that I was pleased about in a few White Wolf releases I read a bit ago, there was actually concrete examples of their "Theme, mood and theme!" mantra :) > >Anyone remember the Johnny Mnemonic movie? :) > >Crummy in many ways. But fun in others. Definitely. It's strange though, I _remember_ enjoying it, but I can't remember _why_. :) - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 2:55 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - The Matrix >I also buy the technology behind the Matrix (although not the absurd reasoning >given for why the computers were keeping the humans around): That bothered you too? I thought I was the only one :) It all gets explained away nicely if you take Werewolf cosmology seriously though. The machines were just Weaver spirits, using the _souls_ of humanity to power their... whatever. It would make for a fun Umbral realm, I must say. >Since the film >implied that the neural jack technology could only be installed by the AIs >(you'll >note that the two characters who were not born in the Matrix do not possess >jacks), it seems logical to me that the AI would design a jack which would >*explicitly* be deadly (as a security precaution). I would have thought that they would have designed a jack they can electrocute you through, just in case, but deadly under normal circumstances is still iffy. It's like making an electric fence that will kill your cows. You _want_ them alive, but you also want them contained. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:59 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans Blame Disney for pushing for beefed-up copyright laws. It's all Mickey Mouse's fault... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wil" To: Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans > Okay, so we have GURPS Uplift, with pretty much negates any chances of > producing a Blue Planet book called "Uplift". Hitler. McVey. > > "Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?" > Dreams of Flesh & Spirit: http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/tribe8/ > The Datacore: http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/jovianchronicles/ > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wil [dreamweaver@keyway.net] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans Okay, so we have GURPS Uplift, with pretty much negates any chances of producing a Blue Planet book called "Uplift". Hitler. McVey. "Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?" Dreams of Flesh & Spirit: http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/tribe8/ The Datacore: http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/jovianchronicles/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:46 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - "Good" Cetaceans > Need I mention Bataku? He's ruthless and amoral, even though he *is* > working towards a "good" cause. RE: Yeah. But he's an orca, which don't have the goody-goody reputation that dolphins do. Now, Prophet, as Bataku's spiritual advisor, would have been closer to the description. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:37 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans Sorry... the only titles I can think of are ones that would probably be used as derogatory terms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Hanrahan" To: Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans > > Yes. So would I. Unfortunately, the only other title I've been able to > > come up > > with is "Cetacean" -- which is only marginally better. Thoughts on this > > one, > > folks? > > "Orca" or "Whalesong" both sound nice, but don't accurately describe the > contents of the book.....um, "Genlift" or "Genlifted", maybe? > > > Justin Bacon > > > Gar > http://www.irishgaming.com/warpcon > http://chrysanthemumRoad.tripod.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David Chart [hist@dchart.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans --On 1/1/01 11:44 -0500 Dracondis wrote: > From: David R. Crowell > >> I doubt Brin can hold legal copyright to the word "uplift", my dictionary >> makes no mention of him in the entry for "uplift". Trademark he might >> have, but not copyright. Brin certainly did not coin the word "uplift", >> he may have been the firts to use it to mean "raising a previously >> non-sentient spiecies to sentience" but that is only a new use of an >> existing word. > > Hardly surprising. Brin was the first one to use it to mean that, and as > it is considered his intellectual property, as it applies to what we are > talking about, I'm certain his permission to use it this way would be > required. You're wrong. You *might* need his permission to actually call the book that, but you might not. Brin doesn't write RPGs, so the chances of trademark confusion are reduced. Copyright is completely irrelevant here. Also, it is not normal practice in book publishing to trademark everything in sight, and you cannot trademark a correctly spelled word (hence all the funky mis-spellings in product names), so there's unlikely to be any problem at all. (Good example: Traveller. As I type, that is not a trademark, as it is the standard UK English spelling. In the US, it is a trademark of, IIRC, Far Future Enterprises. A few years back a Fighting Fantasy book called "Starship Traveller" was published in the UK. GDW sent a cease-and-desist letter. The response was the relevant page from an English dictionary.) > As Bob can attest from our mutual experiences with Palladium > thru their mailing list (now autonomous), intellectual property has to be > handled very carefully. It does, but Palladium were almost certainly bluffing in a lot of their claims. As you couldn't afford to take them to court, they could get away with it. > He does hold a copywrite on the concept of > 'Uplifts', as it applies to animals brought from to sentience from > pre-sentience. No, he doesn't. There is no copyright (there's no such thing as 'copywrite') in ideas or concepts, only in the precise form of their expression. < If you doubt me, contact his publisher and ask them. I'm > certain they will be more than happy to go into detail about what is > needed to obtain permission to use the word in that way, as they are the > ones who would be handling the legalese on his behalf, most likely. Very unlikely indeed. Brin almost certainly has an agent, who would handle the legalese were there any to be handled. David Chart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Mega-Pimp Bob [necrobob@compfxnet.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:31 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans At 11:24 AM 1/1/2001 -0500, you wrote: >From: Brain Fry With Ketchup Bob > >> How about "Uplifted"? > >The term 'Uplift' and all its various tense alternates are copywritten to >David Brin, the author who came up with that term in his books 'Startide >Rising' and 'The Uplift War'. There may be others in that series, but I am >not familiar. Those are the two I have written. Ah...I see. Can I assume that he's as anal-retentive about similar-sounding names as, say, Todd MacFarlane or Dick Garfield? Keep expecting Richard Garfield to sue bars for having beer on tap... ____________________ Necromancer Bob, Card-Carrying Member of the Novus Ordum Mundi Visit The Gate: Necromancer Bob's Domain at: http://www.intws.com/necrobob AOL IM: NcroBob ICQ #78542780 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stephan Aspridis [aspridis@gmx.de] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:16 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - seizures and the development of IC > Fuses are impractical for anything except low-end junk that is not worth > throwing a circuit breaker into. > I can't speak for the US since I live in Germany, but you can bet sure as hell that here in Europe every device even remotely capable of inducing brain damage in its users and too cheap to employ a circuit breaker would get a fuse. Period. > Remember one important thing. Guns kill people. Are guns illegal? No. In > fact, the right to bare arms is a constitutional right in the US. It can't be > repealed, except by an act of Congress, with the support of the President. Is > killing people illegal? Only under certain circumstances. > You have a rather limited viewpoint here that implies that the whole world functions like the good old US of A. In most countries here in Europe guns effectively _are_ illegal and you need a damn good reason if you want one (OT as a side-remark: In Germany you either are a registered collector (very expensive and they check if you're capable of handling guns and your criminal background), a hunter (samen, bur not quite as expensive) or sport-shooter at the local gun club (in that case you have to give your gun back if you're no longer in that club)) > I see Decking and Decks under a similar light. Do decks kill people? Only > under certain circumstances. Can those circumstances be avoided? Yes. Will > the average legal user encounter those circumstances? No. So should we > outlaw the technology? No. Do we outlaw the circumstances that cause death? > Not really. Do we outlaw the people who write the code that kills people? > Not really. We need them to make government computers safe. Does the > military want that code? You bet. > I agree with your viewpoint considering the military. For all other things, I see two reasons that Decks as described wouldn't sell. 1. People here in Germany (as a whole) tend to be _very_ suspicious of new technologies that might be dangerous and 2. this technologies would be outlawed anyway to protect the citizens. > Don't take this the wrong way, Deker, cause its not a slam. Its obvious to me > that you are a young, probably late teens to early 20's Democratic student. > Maybe high school, probably college, or headed there. I'm late 20's to mid > 30's white male Republican-leaning white-collar consumer. Our viewpoints are Just for the protocol ;-) I am a late 20's white male liberal social scientist working on my PhD. > very different. I respect your viewpoints. I think they are quite naive, but > I do respect them. My views differ. I also have an inside glimpse into the > industry we're speaking about. I consider myself to have probably superior > knowledge both or business and of technology, though I could be wrong. But if > you knew the things I've seen, you wouldn't be saying the things you are. I'd > like to think the world could work your way, but I've been thru the halls of > power, and seen, from a limited perspective, that as a whole, neither > business, nor government, are made up of individuals. They are, in and of > themselves, huge, ever-evolving juggernauts that will do whatever they have to > in order to keep themselves alive. If they don't, then they go the way of > Montgomery Wards. > I agree here, but it seems that the way they evolved in America and Europe differs in some ways. It's not meant insulting but I can't help but notice that in the discussions regarding the social and economic implications of technology, Americans (again - as a whole) tend to think that there exists nothing outside their boundaries. cya Stephan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dracondis [Dracondis@email.msn.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:45 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans From: David R. Crowell > I doubt Brin can hold legal copyright to the word "uplift", my dictionary > makes no mention of him in the entry for "uplift". Trademark he might have, > but not copyright. Brin certainly did not coin the word "uplift", he may > have been the firts to use it to mean "raising a previously non-sentient > spiecies to sentience" but that is only a new use of an existing word. Hardly surprising. Brin was the first one to use it to mean that, and as it is considered his intellectual property, as it applies to what we are talking about, I'm certain his permission to use it this way would be required. As Bob can attest from our mutual experiences with Palladium thru their mailing list (now autonomous), intellectual property has to be handled very carefully. He does hold a copywrite on the concept of 'Uplifts', as it applies to animals brought from to sentience from pre-sentience. If you doubt me, contact his publisher and ask them. I'm certain they will be more than happy to go into detail about what is needed to obtain permission to use the word in that way, as they are the ones who would be handling the legalese on his behalf, most likely. - Drakkon - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:28 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans I doubt Brin can hold legal copyright to the word "uplift", my dictionary makes no mention of him in the entry for "uplift". Trademark he might have, but not copyright. Brin certainly did not coin the word "uplift", he may have been the firts to use it to mean "raising a previously non-sentient spiecies to sentience" but that is only a new use of an existing word. I prefer "Song of the Sea" or something similar to "Uplift" anyway. i think that the "uplift process" is now a minor part of cetacean culture on Posieden, I would rather see a title that reflects current conditions not ancient history, it is the Whalesong that sets cetaceans appart, not uplift. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dracondis To: Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans > From: Brain Fry With Ketchup Bob > > > How about "Uplifted"? > > The term 'Uplift' and all its various tense alternates are copywritten to > David Brin, the author who came up with that term in his books 'Startide > Rising' and 'The Uplift War'. There may be others in that series, but I am > not familiar. Those are the two I have written. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dracondis [Dracondis@email.msn.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:27 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans From: Dracondis > The term 'Uplift' and all its various tense alternates are copywritten to > David Brin, the author who came up with that term in his books 'Startide > Rising' and 'The Uplift War'. There may be others in that series, but I am > not familiar. Those are the two I have written. OK. Obviously, I meant that those are the two I have READ! Sheesh. I get up, even shower, but my brain is still asleep. Where's my coffee? One should not attempt to compose EMail until after the triple-dip mocha latte extra foam... - Drakkon - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dracondis [Dracondis@email.msn.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:24 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans From: Brain Fry With Ketchup Bob > How about "Uplifted"? The term 'Uplift' and all its various tense alternates are copywritten to David Brin, the author who came up with that term in his books 'Startide Rising' and 'The Uplift War'. There may be others in that series, but I am not familiar. Those are the two I have written. BTW, anyone looking for a 'not-nice' dolphin should read Startide Rising. There is a psychotic homicidal dolphin in it that kills off a few of the crew. The logic is that the scientist who created him (revealed to be a scientist who was banned from the project to his radical mutations of uplifted DNA) used Orca DNA in his genetic make-up, giving him the hunting tendencies towards killing other phins. The book also forwards the concept that, like humans subjected to massive traumas, uplifted animals could be forced to mentally revert to their pre-sentient states. The dolphins in the book recognized a language of pre-sentience for cetaceans, and even had a developed religion. The ship's captain was particularly religious. Towards the end he starts seeing his Goddess swimming around him more frequently, and gains little bits of info about the situation from her as she chatters in the pre-sentient language. I can't recall what they call it. Its been about 10 years since I read it. Side Note: Though we haven't opened up the Cetacean sections, yet, I have a MUX devoted to all kinds of Uplifted animals (I use the generically accepted term 'Furry' instead of Uplifts). I use the Mekton/CP2020 (pthbt!) RPG system, and we do include psionics and will be including a ship-board Net soon. Its set on a spaceship called Startide-3. Its a colony ship that is lost, dead in the water (atm), and is looking for a home. Stated Mission: Find a new planet to colonize and contact humanity. Earth is dying, and the Startide Project is the last chance earth has for survival. Its now common knowledge, though, that the ship has been off course for a while, and over 300 years have passed while the crew was in cryo-stasis. Anyone interested in this should contact me privately thru EMail. I'm rarely on ICQ during this time of the year... - Drakkon - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brain Fry With Ketchup Bob [necrobob@compfxnet.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:25 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans >SONG OF THE SEA: The Cetacean Sourcebook; or >SONG OF THE SEA: Cetaceans on the World of Blue Planet I like it....especially if you delve into the Church of Whalesong Theology. "Song of the Sea" has connotations of the spiritual side of cetaceans (with a good smack of native warfare). I also rather like "Uplifted". ____________________ Necromancer Bob, Card-Carrying Member of the Novus Ordum Mundi Visit The Gate: Necromancer Bob's Domain at: http://www.intws.com/necrobob AOL IM: NcroBob ICQ #78542780 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brain Fry With Ketchup Bob [necrobob@compfxnet.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:21 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - "Good" Cetaceans >On the Cetacean book, one thing you might run into is the "Dolphins are all >benevolent good guys thing." Isn't it a stereotype having all Dolphins be >"good"? >(Flipper, Darwin on SeaQuest, etc.) This is true, but then again, most PC cetaceans (I hate the term "fins") are going to be "good guys". }-> The cetaceans in Rifts Underseas (which has some nice examples of aquatic technology which are probably suitable to BP, if you're inclined less to the hard sci-fi end of things) had kinda the same problem. >What i'd like to see is at least a few examples of ruthless, amoral, >not-so-good Dolphins, or else it's basically Flipper with Torpedoes. Need I mention Bataku? He's ruthless and amoral, even though he *is* working towards a "good" cause. That's one thing that struck me about the cetacean NPCs in the core books- they're so....well, *human*. I guess it's a good thing, in some ways. ____________________ Necromancer Bob, Card-Carrying Member of the Novus Ordum Mundi Visit The Gate: Necromancer Bob's Domain at: http://www.intws.com/necrobob AOL IM: NcroBob ICQ #78542780 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brain Fry With Ketchup Bob [necrobob@compfxnet.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:17 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans At 03:48 AM 1/1/2001 -0000, you wrote: >> Yes. So would I. Unfortunately, the only other title I've been able to >> come up >> with is "Cetacean" -- which is only marginally better. Thoughts on this >> one, >> folks? > >"Orca" or "Whalesong" both sound nice, but don't accurately describe the >contents of the book.....um, "Genlift" or "Genlifted", maybe? How about "Uplifted"? ____________________ Necromancer Bob, Card-Carrying Member of the Novus Ordum Mundi Visit The Gate: Necromancer Bob's Domain at: http://www.intws.com/necrobob AOL IM: NcroBob ICQ #78542780 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christer Edling [tjalens.h@telia.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 5:11 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans Justin Bacon wrote: >SONG OF THE SEA: The Cetacean Sourcebook; or >SONG OF THE SEA: Cetaceans on the World of Blue Planet Hello; my name is Christer Edling and I live in the north of Sweden. I am new to Blue Planet and am and will mostly be a lurker. But I want to make You observe that if You call the book something with -SONG within it You should make the SONG an important thing in the behavior of the whales. It should also be conected with their culture and I would like to have "all" of it explained in playable terms. Maybe a CD with whalesong should be added to the book, with some sort of "code"-explanation added to it? Vale Christer Edling alias Caeso Fabius Quintilianus ************************************************ Aut inveniam viam aut faciam "I'll either find a way or make one" ************************************************ "Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side." ************************************************ SHAMALI SALUKIS ************************************************ CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP Robert Andersson & Christer Edling ************************************************ IF GAMES - If reality was different! Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling ************************************************ MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@telia.com ************************************************ PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10 DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56 MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:17 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetaceans Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > "Orca" or "Whalesong" both sound nice, but don't accurately describe the > contents of the book.....um, "Genlift" or "Genlifted", maybe? SONG OF THE SEA: The Cetacean Sourcebook; or SONG OF THE SEA: Cetaceans on the World of Blue Planet To match: FLUID MECHANICS: Technology in the World of Blue Planet FIRST COLONY: The City of Haven Campaign Sourcebook POSSE: Crime and Law Enforcement on the Frontier (Actually, that probably won't be Posse's actual sub-title -- since both Fluid Mechanics and First Colony's had there's "changed" since the initial ads in the back of second edition.) The sub-title might need some work. Thoughts? >> Speaking of which, does anyone know any non-fiction books which deal with >> possibility of uplifiting other species through genetic manipulation? > >*shuffles with embarrassment* >Well...Pern is kinda like that...the book where they first colonise the >planet details how they create the Dragons (and also has intelligent, >telepathic dolphins). Ah, yes. The well known NON-fiction books known as Pern. ;-) Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.