From: Chris Sakal [csakal@erols.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 5:52 PM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Military Efficiency (was: Hybrids) >My take on it is that the hybrids were created to be soldiers and never >given the option to choose. While they may be genetically predisposed to be >soldiers or their genetic makeup may make them good at being soldiers, >eventually even the best soldier gets tired and the fact that he/she was >never given the choice may make them resentful. Well, did you see the movie "Soldier"? It's a lot better than the reviews made it out to be, and one of the things that it deals with that was actually surprising in the amount of thought that went into it is what it might be like to be raised to be a soldier and nothing but. The hybrids might not be resentful they were forced to be soldiers if they know nothing else. Presumably the ones who were just totally tempermentally unsuited to the job would be weeded out during the training process (why waste time and money to get a substandard soldier). Those that make it to being soldiers will know nothing but how to be a soldier, and probably by the time they realize there is another possibility in life they don't want to take it. Chris Sakal csakal@erols.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 10:22 AM To: 'blue_planet@MPGN.COM' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Military Efficiency (was: Hybrids) > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert P. Stefko [mailto:rpsst16@pop.pitt.edu] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hybrids > > According to "How to Make War" by James F. Dunnigan, the ranking of European > military power as of 1995 is as follows: > > 1. Russia, 95 divisions, 28% quality rating. > 2. Germany, 15 divisions, 75% quality rating. > 3. Turkey, 24 divisions, 44% quality rating. > 4. Sweden, 24 divisions, 43% quality rating. > 5. France, 29 divisions, 40% quality rating. > 6. U.K., 16 divisions, 53% quality rating. > While I know that Dunnigan is a respected author and (I believe) historian, I beg to differ (IMHO) about the "efficiency" of the British Army. I never had the chance to work with them (while I did work with the Bundeswehr) I did attend several exercises with British and Canadian officers, and I have read a lot of the British Army. > Also, I am not actually jumping to the conclusion that hybrids are macho > fascist supermen, simply providing reasons why they could be. Determining > their social, cultural, and political inclinations is the job of the guys at > Biohazard (with some player input, of course). I can only speculate and > extrapolate. > My take on it is that the hybrids were created to be soldiers and never given the option to choose. While they may be genetically predisposed to be soldiers or their genetic makeup may make them good at being soldiers, eventually even the best soldier gets tired and the fact that he/she was never given the choice may make them resentful. And remember, it's your game and you can; a) fill in the holes we haven't filled yet (or will fill with later products) and b) change it to suit you and/or your players. If you want the hybrids to be supersoldiers who never question orders (ala the Gem Hadar on DS9) fine. If you want them to be ethically repressed people who just want the chance to chose, fine. Remember, the point is to have fun. Jim H. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16@pop.pitt.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 9:22 PM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Military Efficiency (was: Hybrids) >While I know that Dunnigan is a respected author and (I believe) historian, I beg to differ (IMHO) about the "efficiency" of the British Army. I never had the chance to work with them (while I did work with the Bundeswehr) I did attend several exercises with British and Canadian officers, and I have read a lot of the British Army.< Actually, Britain's quality rating (53%) is higher than that of the U.S. (48%). Britain's comparatively low rank in the top ten military powers of Europe is due to numbers: they simply maintain fewer active combat divisions than, say, Turkey or Sweden. Germany actually has one less division than Britain, but its quality rating is substantially higher (75%). >My take on it is that the hybrids were created to be soldiers and neve given the option to choose. While they may be genetically redisposed to be soldiers or their genetic makeup may make them good at being soldiers, eventually even the best soldier gets tired and the fact that he/she was never given the choice may make them resentful.< I use Soldier (the movie, starring Kurt Russel) as a template for hybrid history and society. The hybrids were trained to be obedient, unfeeling war machines but balked at the inhumanity of their environment. (They developed a moral conscience through contact with civilian personnel working on the hybrid project.) No longer useful to their creators, they were discarded to fend for themselves on the African reserve, where they developed a hybrid society influenced by the peoples with whom they had the greatest initial contact: Americans, Germans, Incorporate Latins, Africans, and their respective armed forces. (Yes, this makes for a unique people. Disciplined, industrious, proud, confident, and emotional, with a strong military ethic and a sharp division between the sacred and the profane — in the Durkheimian sense — unlike the more ambiguous secularism of the West. To put that final note another way, hybrids have precise notions of what is right and what is wrong. That's my take; feel free to ask me where I got those various societal elements.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16@pop.pitt.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 9:35 PM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Military Efficiency (was: Hybrids) > Well, did you see the movie "Soldier"? It's a lot better than the reviews made it out to be, and one of the things that it deals with that was actually surprising in the amount of thought that went into it is what it might be like to be raised to be a soldier and nothing but. The hybrid might not be resentful they were forced to be soldiers if they know nothing else. Presumably the ones who were just totally tempermentally unsuited to the job would be weeded out during the training process (why waste time and money to get a substandard soldier). Those that make it to being soldiers will know nothing but how to be a soldier, and probably by the time they realize there is another possibility in life they don't want to take it.< It's essentially impossible to prevent the dissemination of ideas from one group of people to another. Even the most repressive totalitarian states never managed to accomplish this feat. A human being raised to be a soldier will still come into contact with non-soldiers at some time in his life — while recuperating in a hospital, while "pacifying" a village of noncombatants, while marching in a parade, or whatever. If communication occurs, ideas will necessarily be exchanged, and the soldier will slowly come to realize there are facets of human existence other than soldiering. How he acts on this revelation is, of course, a matter of personal choice. Obviously, enough hybrids chose freedom to force the issue with the project leadership. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris L'Etoile [stormwaltz@ibm.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 10:03 AM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: Military Efficiency (was: Hybrids) Hey folks, Chris Sakal wrote: > Well, did you see the movie "Soldier"? It's a lot better than the > reviews made it out to be, and one of the things that it deals with that > was actually surprising in the amount of thought that went into it is what > it might be like to be raised to be a soldier and nothing but. Soldier had the blessing of being written by the brilliant David Webb Peoples (Blade Runner, Unforgiven, 12 Monkeys). Unfortunately, the dumb@$$ ad campaign left me unable to convince anyone that it would be worth seeing. I have to wait for it to come out on video. :( - Chris -- /--------------------------------------------------------\ | "You know, you're really beautiful when you're | | angry. Do you get beautiful very often?" | | - Terry Moore | |--------------------------------------------------------| | stormwaltz@ibm.net | e2aow@geocities.com | |--------------------------------------------------------| | The Empire II Archive: | | http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/6085/ | | | | Personal Homepage: | | http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9499 | \--------------------------------------------------------/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.