From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 8:11 AM To: blue planet list (E-mail) Subject: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News -----Original Message----- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 02:38:13 -0500 To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com From: Kintaro Oe Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >> Sorta. One book will aimed at players and the other will be a setting >> book aimed at moderators. The "GM's book" will include some "campaign I really recommend that you make it so that you can buy one book and get along fine. To otherwise would be a _very_ poor decision. Most gamers I know (myself included) are really put off by that. it's one of the reasons I've never bothered to loo further into 7th Sea than a have. I don't need to spend $60 on a game I would, at best, only mildly dislike. >Is there a chance of a shrinkwrapped set? Maybe with a new GM screen? >That way I could replace all the stuff I have now at once. you could add the screen. that would be nice. while I _wish_ that BP could be made in something like the Vampire limited editions, with "pleather" and a _very_ simple cover, I won't fool myself into thinking that Blue Planet will be able to pull that off. >I would actually like to see the mechanic in the GM's book; one of the >things I liked about 1ed character generation was that the players could >generate a character without ever seeing the rules (no min-maxing AT >ALL). I try to keep the rules transparent to my players, and it's >pretty easy under the current system. the only problem is that that makes both books mandatory, which is, as I said above, a horrible, horrible thing. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek Guder - "It has never happened if the memory is not there." -Serial Experiments Lain kabael's netbook - http://kabael.8m.com the McGuffin Group - http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 8:11 AM To: blue planet list (E-mail) Subject: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: The Big News - Prince and new info -----Original Message----- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 02:20:18 -0500 To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com From: Kintaro Oe Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: The Big News - Prince and new info >>The current 2nd edition budget includes a massive increase in >illustration >>content as well - approximately 100 new illustrations. Is that cool >or what??? > >Note: that's 100 illustrations (including maps) per book. ooh. you guys might actually look like a normal RPG now, and some of my friends might get into it, since the volume of text put them off (but then so will having 2 "base books") any word on who you are highering to draw? - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek Guder - "It has never happened if the memory is not there." -Serial Experiments Lain kabael's netbook - http://kabael.8m.com the McGuffin Group - http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 8:10 AM To: blue planet list (E-mail) Subject: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: The Big News - Prince and new info -----Original Message----- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 02:38:36 -0500 To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com From: Kintaro Oe Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: The Big News - Prince and new info >Colour could be good, but I'd rather see high quality b/w than medium >quality colour. I have to agree. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek Guder - "It has never happened if the memory is not there." -Serial Experiments Lain kabael's netbook - http://kabael.8m.com the McGuffin Group - http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 8:12 AM To: blue planet list (E-mail) Subject: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News -----Original Message----- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 02:16:02 -0500 To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com From: Kintaro Oe Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >Will the new combat system still be percentile-based? I never understood >the point in anything else. Why make a system in which you need to do a >statistical analysis to figure out your chances of success, in the form >of a percentile, when you can just make a system where the target number >_is_ a percentile? because it makes for a linear progression of development and success, instead of a fun little bell-curve that makes more sense sometimes. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek Guder - "It has never happened if the memory is not there." -Serial Experiments Lain kabael's netbook - http://kabael.8m.com the McGuffin Group - http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:48 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: The Big News - Prince and new info > >Colour could be good, but I'd rather see high > quality b/w than medium > >quality colour. > > I have to agree. I would MUCH rather see high-quality content in Black and white at a lower price than to have to pay more for a color book, I buy RPG books for the content, and I know that publishing in B+W is a lot cheaper than in color __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 5:13 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News -----Original Message----- From: Heivilin, Jim To: blue planet list (E-mail) Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:16 AM Subject: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >-----Original Message----- >Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 02:38:13 -0500 >To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com >From: Kintaro Oe >Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News > >>> Sorta. One book will aimed at players and the other will be a setting >>> book aimed at moderators. The "GM's book" will include some "campaign > >I really recommend that you make it so that you can buy one book and get >along fine. To otherwise would be a _very_ poor decision. Most gamers I >know (myself included) are really put off by that. it's one of the reasons >I've never bothered to loo further into 7th Sea than a have. I don't need >to spend $60 on a game I would, at best, only mildly dislike. I'd say, with a little preparation, a GM could run a basic BP game with the player's book. He'd just have to develop his own settlements, NPCs, etc., and he'd have to either avoid the issue of the aborigines or develop it himself. But there will be a lot of setting material in the player's book -- less than 20% will be rules. In any case, we have too much material to put in one book, and if we're going to do two core books, aiming them at players and moderators respectively makes a lot of sense. Now, let's compare the value of BP1 and BP2. Blue Planet and Archipelago listed for $47. The new second edition core books will set you back $60, and will contain all of the material from BP and Arch. So, is hardcover binding, 100 illustrations, and about 50,000 words of new material (a full-sized supplement for most game lines) a good value for the extra $13? I certainly think so. The problem with 7th Sea, I think, is a perceived scarcity of real content in the two books -- the actual gaming material-to-page count ratio. That isn't going to be an issue with BP2. Obviously, the question of value is different for owners of the BP1 books -- you already have a lot of the material that will be appearing in the second edition. In your case, we have to hope that we're offering enough new (and improved!) stuff and that you're enthusiastic enough about the game to buy the second edition. Such is always the case with a transition to a new edition. Hope this addresses some of your concerns. Greg Benage FFG-Biohazard Hybrid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:25 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News I will be buying them and I daresay so will 90% of the folks on this email list. Don't worry about it. At 03:13 PM 1/18/00 -0800, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Heivilin, Jim >To: blue planet list (E-mail) >Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:16 AM >Subject: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News > > >>-----Original Message----- >>Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 02:38:13 -0500 >>To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com >>From: Kintaro Oe >>Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >> >>>> Sorta. One book will aimed at players and the other will be a >setting >>>> book aimed at moderators. The "GM's book" will include some >"campaign >> >>I really recommend that you make it so that you can buy one book and >get >>along fine. To otherwise would be a _very_ poor decision. Most gamers >I >>know (myself included) are really put off by that. it's one of the >reasons >>I've never bothered to loo further into 7th Sea than a have. I don't >need >>to spend $60 on a game I would, at best, only mildly dislike. > >I'd say, with a little preparation, a GM could run a basic BP game >with the player's book. He'd just have to develop his own settlements, >NPCs, etc., and he'd have to either avoid the issue of the aborigines >or develop it himself. But there will be a lot of setting material in >the player's book -- less than 20% will be rules. In any case, we have >too much material to put in one book, and if we're going to do two >core books, aiming them at players and moderators respectively makes a >lot of sense. > >Now, let's compare the value of BP1 and BP2. Blue Planet and >Archipelago listed for $47. The new second edition core books will set >you back $60, and will contain all of the material from BP and Arch. >So, is hardcover binding, 100 illustrations, and about 50,000 words of >new material (a full-sized supplement for most game lines) a good >value for the extra $13? I certainly think so. The problem with 7th >Sea, I think, is a perceived scarcity of real content in the two >books -- the actual gaming material-to-page count ratio. That isn't >going to be an issue with BP2. > >Obviously, the question of value is different for owners of the BP1 >books -- you already have a lot of the material that will be appearing >in the second edition. In your case, we have to hope that we're >offering enough new (and improved!) stuff and that you're enthusiastic >enough about the game to buy the second edition. Such is always the >case with a transition to a new edition. > >Hope this addresses some of your concerns. > >Greg Benage >FFG-Biohazard Hybrid > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: eric baierl [ebaierl@csd.uwm.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:32 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Prosperity Station? Can someone give me the URL for Prosperity Station? My bookmarks seem to have disapperaed on my computer... eric baierl *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 5:52 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Prosperity Station? -----Original Message----- From: eric baierl To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 1:39 PM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Prosperity Station? > >Can someone give me the URL for Prosperity Station? My bookmarks seem to >have disapperaed on my computer... http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/prosperitystation Greg Benage FFG-Biohazard Hybrid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D.A. Schepers [daschepers@itsyourturn.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 4:13 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News Hi, folks- I'm fortunate; as a newbie to Blue Planet, I only have the first book. I have not yet started my campaign, either, so I can decide which set of rules to train myself and my players in. For the record, I'm in favor of the idea of a shrink-wrapped package that includes the GM screen (maybe at a slightly lower price?). In any case, I will definitely be buying them, and I'm really looking forward to reading them. You have created such a detailed, wonderful campaign world. It draws from so much great material (Brin, K.S. Robinson), SeaQuest [all right, so I have a weakness for the show...], plays on so many great themes [wormholes, vanished elder races, genetic alteration, and space elevators(okay, so they only play a minor role in BP, but who doesn't love space elevators? I'm naming the one in my campaign "Jacob's Ladder")], and mixes in well-thought-out new material, making a seamless whole. I can't wait to get started. Congratulations, guys, and I'm glad to see there will be more supplements. -Alan > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com > [mailto:owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of D. Baughn > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 4:25 PM > To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com > Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News > > > I will be buying them and I daresay so will 90% of the folks on this email > list. Don't worry about it. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 5:31 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News The only thing I have against BP -- the exact same beef I had with GDW's Traveller and 2300AD -- was the lack of realistic technological growth given the time frames involved. All of those 'universes' assumes that mankind would be in a state of technological stagnation for a long time. In reality, for example, most of the technological development in BP could be easily achieved in the next thirty to fifty years, tops. For there is every indication that humanity's own form of nanotech alone will most likely fit into that timeframe, with it really taking off in the 2020s. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are being debutted for the consumer market starting in 2003. It is said that 70 percent of all scientists that ever lived are living now. Not only are there millions of active scientists, but also a well-honed research, development & archival institutional framework. The rate of scientific growth is accellerating on a geometric scale, not a linear one. The only thing stopping it now would be our own early 21st century blight, but not a 22nd century one. In GDW's 2300 AD, they had the Twilight War over the turn of the millennium. But, even factoring in the century long recovery period, that universe should have been -- like BP's -- more technologically advanced than depicted. Is that what they mean by 'Hard Science RPG'? - that we use current baseline and 'flavor it up' a little? I've always wondered about this... At 05:13 PM 1/18/00 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, folks- > >I'm fortunate; as a newbie to Blue Planet, I only have the first book. I >have not yet started my campaign, either, so I can decide which set of rules >to train myself and my players in. > >For the record, I'm in favor of the idea of a shrink-wrapped package that >includes the GM screen (maybe at a slightly lower price?). > >In any case, I will definitely be buying them, and I'm really looking >forward to reading them. You have created such a detailed, wonderful >campaign world. It draws from so much great material (Brin, K.S. Robinson), >SeaQuest [all right, so I have a weakness for the show...], plays on so many >great themes [wormholes, vanished elder races, genetic alteration, and space >elevators(okay, so they only play a minor role in BP, but who doesn't love >space elevators? I'm naming the one in my campaign "Jacob's Ladder")], and >mixes in well-thought-out new material, making a seamless whole. > >I can't wait to get started. Congratulations, guys, and I'm glad to see >there will be more supplements. >-Alan > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com >> [mailto:owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of D. Baughn >> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 4:25 PM >> To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com >> Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >> >> >> I will be buying them and I daresay so will 90% of the folks on this email >> list. Don't worry about it. >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 8:07 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News -----Original Message----- From: D. Baughn To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:34 PM Subject: RE: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >The only thing I have against BP -- the exact same beef I had with GDW's >Traveller and 2300AD -- was the lack of realistic technological growth >given the time frames involved. > >All of those 'universes' assumes that mankind would be in a state of >technological stagnation for a long time. In reality, for example, most of >the technological development in BP could be easily achieved in the next >thirty to fifty years, tops. Most of it is, in the BP universe. Commercial fusion, direct neural interface, DNA-based data storage, genetic uplift of cetaceans, radical genetic alteration of humans -- all are accomplished by the mid-21st Century. Indeed, most of the tech common in 2199 was developed by the mid-to-late 2000s. There simply wasn't much development during the Blight and its aftermath. As anyone who has read BP and its support material knows, however, there are some _serious_ changes looming on the horizon... >For there is every indication that humanity's >own form of nanotech alone will most likely fit into that timeframe, with >it really taking off in the 2020s. That's pretty speculative, at this point. >Hydrogen fuel cell cars are being >debutted for the consumer market starting in 2003. Mass produced? I think the first mass produced fuel-cell vehicles appear in 2008 in our timeline. >But, even factoring in the >century long recovery period, that universe should have been -- like BP's >-- more technologically advanced than depicted. I think you'll also get a better picture of how advanced technology is in BP with the release of Fluid Mechanics. We may also try to give a better overview in the second edition core books, space allowing. There are also some SF technologies that we are simply not going to present as viable in the BP universe, at least for the forseeable future -- antigravity, cost- and energy-effective man-portable beam weapons, warp drives, etc. Thanks, Greg Benage FFG-Biohazard Hybrid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:40 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >Mass produced? I think the first mass produced fuel-cell vehicles >appear in 2008 in our timeline. Yup. One of the Japanese car manufacturers is releasing their model in that year. DaimlerChrysler will start manufacturing 100,000 FC cars per year around 2004. Tokyo Gas and Power is going to start installing local FC generators for power and hot water in individual Japanese apartment complexes. The dream of extreme power generation decentralization is at hand. I know all this because it is the main reasons why my stock in Ballard has soared from $26 to $51 in a month. And we all thought the old 20 was an exciting century.... >As anyone who has >read BP and its support material knows, however, there are some >_serious_ changes looming on the horizon... I've read it and there are bits here and there of stuff. Mostly Long John templating and the repercussions from thereof is what I can see. Unless you are alluding to some big thing planned out of some minor detail mentioned in the 'Access Denied' sections that I might have missed or forgotten about, I am not aware of any 'serious changes looming on the horizon'. So, Greg, care to elaborate? :) (yes this is a trap question...eheheh) >>it really taking off in the 2020s. > >That's pretty speculative, at this point. Not as speculative as one might think... Zyvex is already gunning on having a first generation assembler before 2010. After that is done, further development will take off like a rocket. Remember, a lot of the CAD design of nanocomputers and other contstructs is already being done and tested right now. Once we get quite a few assemblers working in tandem.... >Most of it is, in the BP universe...all are accomplished by the >mid-21st Century. Indeed, most of the tech common in 2199 was >developed by the mid-to-late 2000s. There simply wasn't much >development during the Blight and its aftermath. Ok, I'll give you some creative licensing there. Still, I would think that those nations not much affected by the Blight would have had a technological renaissance (necessity truly is the mother of invention) if only for economic subsitution purposes. Australia already has the highest patent per capita of any nation, for example. And, I think it survived the blight least scathed, if I am not mistaken. The march of progress would have been slowed, but not stopped as it seems it had in the BP universe. Hmmmm, perhaps it is just my interpretation of how you presented the situation. But, like you said, you have have the new revision and Fluid Mechanics to flesh it all out. At 06:07 PM 1/18/00 -0800, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: D. Baughn >To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com > >Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:34 PM >Subject: RE: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News > > >>The only thing I have against BP -- the exact same beef I had with >GDW's >>Traveller and 2300AD -- was the lack of realistic technological >growth >>given the time frames involved. >> >>All of those 'universes' assumes that mankind would be in a state of >>technological stagnation for a long time. In reality, for example, >most of >>the technological development in BP could be easily achieved in the >next >>thirty to fifty years, tops. > >Most of it is, in the BP universe. Commercial fusion, direct neural >interface, DNA-based data storage, genetic uplift of cetaceans, >radical genetic alteration of humans -- all are accomplished by the >mid-21st Century. Indeed, most of the tech common in 2199 was >developed by the mid-to-late 2000s. There simply wasn't much >development during the Blight and its aftermath. As anyone who has >read BP and its support material knows, however, there are some >_serious_ changes looming on the horizon... > >>For there is every indication that humanity's >>own form of nanotech alone will most likely fit into that timeframe, >with >>it really taking off in the 2020s. > >That's pretty speculative, at this point. > >>Hydrogen fuel cell cars are being >>debutted for the consumer market starting in 2003. > >Mass produced? I think the first mass produced fuel-cell vehicles >appear in 2008 in our timeline. > >>But, even factoring in the >>century long recovery period, that universe should have been -- like >BP's >>-- more technologically advanced than depicted. > >I think you'll also get a better picture of how advanced technology is >in BP with the release of Fluid Mechanics. We may also try to give a >better overview in the second edition core books, space allowing. >There are also some SF technologies that we are simply not going to >present as viable in the BP universe, at least for the forseeable >future -- antigravity, cost- and energy-effective man-portable beam >weapons, warp drives, etc. > >Thanks, > >Greg Benage >FFG-Biohazard Hybrid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:43 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 8:16:20 AM Central Standard Time, banzai@missouri.edu writes: << Most gamers I know (myself included) are really put off by that. >> Hmmm strange most gamers I know (myself included) would rather spend the extra money to have the two seperate, for ease of use by several people, keeping the secrets out of the players hands , and other reasons "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:44 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 8:16:20 AM Central Standard Time, banzai@missouri.edu writes: << I try to keep the rules transparent to my players, and it's >pretty easy under the current system. >> In many ways that makes life easier "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:46 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 8:16:20 AM Central Standard Time, banzai@missouri.edu writes: << as I said above, a horrible, horrible thing. >> In your not so humble opinion "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:51 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: The Big News - Prince and new info In a message dated 1/18/00 8:22:07 AM Central Standard Time, banzai@missouri.edu writes: << and some of my friends might get into it, since the volume of text put them off (but then so will having 2 "base books") >> Hmmm I sense a pattern forming here "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:55 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 3:21:17 PM Central Standard Time, gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: << Obviously, the question of value is different for owners of the BP1 books -- you already have a lot of the material that will be appearing in the second edition. In your case, we have to hope that we're offering enough new (and improved!) >> Some of us would buy it not only for the new content, but because when it really comes right down to it, the only way you can support this hobby is putting your money where your mouth is.... "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:55 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 3:43:07 PM Central Standard Time, dbaughn@cadence.com writes: << I will be buying them and I daresay so will 90% of the folks on this email list. Don't worry about it. >> I agree "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:59 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >but because when it really comes right down to it, the only way you can support >this hobby is putting your money where your mouth is.... Here! Here! At 07:54 PM 1/18/00 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/18/00 3:21:17 PM Central Standard Time, >gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: > ><< Obviously, the question of value is different for owners of the BP1 > books -- you already have a lot of the material that will be appearing > in the second edition. In your case, we have to hope that we're > offering enough new (and improved!) >> >Some of us would buy it not only for the new content, but because when it >really comes right down to it, the only way you can support this hobby is >putting your money where your mouth is.... > >"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be >stupid all the way!"-187 > >x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises >"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." >EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News -----Original Message----- From: D. Baughn To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News > >>Mass produced? I think the first mass produced fuel-cell vehicles >>appear in 2008 in our timeline. > >Yup. One of the Japanese car manufacturers is releasing their model >in that year. DaimlerChrysler will start manufacturing 100,000 FC >cars per year around 2004. Interesting. Good time to ask a question, here: Should we update the timeline, or just assume that we're dealing with an alternate universe after 1997? For example, Saddam probably won't get whacked this year... >>As anyone who has >>read BP and its support material knows, however, there are some >>_serious_ changes looming on the horizon... > >I've read it and there are bits here and there of stuff. Mostly Long >John templating and the repercussions from thereof is what I can see. >Unless you are alluding to some big thing planned out of some minor >detail mentioned in the 'Access Denied' sections that I might have >missed or forgotten about, I am not aware of any 'serious changes >looming on the horizon'. So, Greg, care to elaborate? :) (yes this >is a trap question...eheheh) I'd suggest the "Future Tech" Access Denied on BP 104, and of course some of the material on Dyfedd's...er...automation discussed in Archipelago. >Not as speculative as one might think... Zyvex is already gunning on >having a first generation assembler before 2010. After that is done, >further development will take off like a rocket. Well, there were a lot of companies like Zyvex "gunning" for Turing AI and atomic-powered flying cars in the 50s. And yet, we're not especially close to either one half-a-century later. I consider Zyvex's work to fall rather squarely into the "speculative" category, though of course your mileage may vary. >Remember, a lot of the CAD design >of nanocomputers and other contstructs is already being done and >tested right now. Once we get quite a few assemblers working in >tandem.... Sure, but there's a big difference between computer modeling and building an effective first-generation assembler. Do we know how to program one? Has anyone solved the heat problem yet? I'm no expert, but again, I consider it highly speculative *at this stage.* If I'm dead wrong, feel free to educate me. ;-) >>Most of it is, in the BP universe...all are accomplished by the >>mid-21st Century. Indeed, most of the tech common in 2199 was >>developed by the mid-to-late 2000s. There simply wasn't much >>development during the Blight and its aftermath. > >Ok, I'll give you some creative licensing there. Still, I would >think that those nations not much affected by the Blight would >have had a technological renaissance (necessity truly is the >mother of invention) if only for economic subsitution purposes. >Australia already has the highest patent per capita of any nation, >for example. And, I think it survived the blight least scathed, >if I am not mistaken. The march of progress would have been slowed, >but not stopped as it seems it had in the BP universe. >Hmmmm, perhaps it is just my interpretation of how you presented the >situation. Yeah, Australia was one of the least affected. Its mortality rate was only around 47%, or roughly 28 million casualties. As was the case elsewhere, the government and economy collapsed, though the Hydrospan and LavOrg city-states that emerged helped on a local basis. Maybe we didn't effectively communicate how really *bad* the Blight was... Greg Benage FFG-Biohazard Hybrid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:10 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 7:05:31 PM Central Standard Time, gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: << Remember, a lot of the CAD design >of nanocomputers and other contstructs is already being done and tested >right now. Once we get quite a few assemblers working in tandem.... Sure, but there's a big difference between computer modeling and building an effective first-generation assembler. Do we know how to program one? Has anyone solved the heat problem yet? I'm no expert, but again, I consider it highly speculative *at this stage.* If I'm dead wrong, feel free to educate me. ;-) >> I just read an article online the other day where many scientists had come to the conclusion that miniturization is rapidly reaching the limits of what is at this time humanly possible, with out a MAJOR scientific discovery "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News -----Original Message----- From: EndersWAR1@aol.com To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >Some of us would buy it not only for the new content, but because when it >really comes right down to it, the only way you can support this hobby is >putting your money where your mouth is.... Sure, but hopefully you realize that you are Biohazard's best customers, and that this attitude isn't prevalent across the hobby in general. We certainly realize it. There are reasons that some games (even really good games) die and others find a new lease on life. You are one of those reasons. Without an enthusiastic and dedicated fan base, BP would have been a much less attractive license ("Great setting...too bad nobody cares"). We owe you all a big thanks...so, Big Thanks! Greg Benage FFG-Biohazard Hybrid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News >Yeah, Australia was one of the least affected. Its mortality rate was >only around 47%, or roughly 28 million casualties. As was the case >elsewhere, the government and economy collapsed, though the Hydrospan >and LavOrg city-states that emerged helped on a local basis. Maybe we >didn't effectively communicate how really *bad* the Blight was... Ok. I stand slapped and corrected... >Interesting. Good time to ask a question, here: Should we update the >timeline, or just assume that we're dealing with an alternate universe >after 1997? For example, Saddam probably won't get whacked this >year... For simple product longevity purposes, you might just want to avoid any 'near future' speculation at all. When GDW did Twilight 2000, they ended up eating crow and providing a separate, alternate timeline in their USA based adventures because of the real world collapse of the Soviet Union, for example. >I'd suggest the "Future Tech" Access Denied on BP 104, and of course >some of the material on Dyfedd's...er...automation discussed in >Archipelago. The AI at Dyfedd? I'll check out the Future Tech section as well. >Well, there were a lot of companies like Zyvex "gunning" for Turing AI >and atomic-powered flying cars in the 50s. And yet, we're not >especially close to either one half-a-century later. I consider >Zyvex's work to fall rather squarely into the "speculative" category, >though of course your mileage may vary. Sure. And, how many times did we hear about nuclear fusion just 'being around the corner' as well? Still, you threw that in. And, nanotech has a much higher potential ROI than merely harnessing the power process of the stars and a much less expensive R&D base to work with. Consequently, we prolly would've had controlled nuclear fusion by now had the government kept the mid-seventies funding levels up, too. Building those next generation reactors for research is a lot like the next generation IC fab plants -- expensive. But, that hasn't stopped progress in it. We'll have commercially viable controlled fusion -- probably in our lifetime. >Sure, but there's a big difference between computer modeling and >building an effective first-generation assembler. Do we know how to >program one? Has anyone solved the heat problem yet? I'm no expert, >but again, I consider it highly speculative *at this stage.* If I'm >dead wrong, feel free to educate me. ;-) Subscribe to Nanotechnology Magazine. (http://nanozine.com/E-mag.htm) Most of what they print you need a Phd in Chemistry or Physics. But, I follow enough to know that they aren't exactly lagging behind on this. And, Zyvex is not making the claim they are to just attract additional VC. They already have strong, long-term backing. And, one of nanotech's founding spokesmen and theorist, Ralph Merkle, just dumped his cozy Xerox PARC job to join Zyvex. You might want to keep up with it just because it is the basis of Creator/Aborigine technology, after all. At 07:04 PM 1/18/00 -0800, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: D. Baughn >To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com > >Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 4:43 PM >Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News > > >> >>>Mass produced? I think the first mass produced fuel-cell vehicles >>>appear in 2008 in our timeline. >> >>Yup. One of the Japanese car manufacturers is releasing their model >in >>that year. DaimlerChrysler will start manufacturing 100,000 FC cars >per >>year around 2004. > >Interesting. Good time to ask a question, here: Should we update the >timeline, or just assume that we're dealing with an alternate universe >after 1997? For example, Saddam probably won't get whacked this >year... > >>>As anyone who has >>>read BP and its support material knows, however, there are some >>>_serious_ changes looming on the horizon... >> >>I've read it and there are bits here and there of stuff. Mostly Long >John >>templating and the repercussions from thereof is what I can see. >Unless >>you are alluding to some big thing planned out of some minor detail >>mentioned in the 'Access Denied' sections that I might have missed or >>forgotten about, I am not aware of any 'serious changes looming on >the >>horizon'. So, Greg, care to elaborate? :) (yes this is a trap >>question...eheheh) > >I'd suggest the "Future Tech" Access Denied on BP 104, and of course >some of the material on Dyfedd's...er...automation discussed in >Archipelago. > >>Not as speculative as one might think... Zyvex is already gunning on >having >>a first generation assembler before 2010. After that is done, >further >>development will take off like a rocket. > >Well, there were a lot of companies like Zyvex "gunning" for Turing AI >and atomic-powered flying cars in the 50s. And yet, we're not >especially close to either one half-a-century later. I consider >Zyvex's work to fall rather squarely into the "speculative" category, >though of course your mileage may vary. > >>Remember, a lot of the CAD design >>of nanocomputers and other contstructs is already being done and >tested >>right now. Once we get quite a few assemblers working in tandem.... > >Sure, but there's a big difference between computer modeling and >building an effective first-generation assembler. Do we know how to >program one? Has anyone solved the heat problem yet? I'm no expert, >but again, I consider it highly speculative *at this stage.* If I'm >dead wrong, feel free to educate me. ;-) > >>>Most of it is, in the BP universe...all are accomplished by the >>>mid-21st Century. Indeed, most of the tech common in 2199 was >>>developed by the mid-to-late 2000s. There simply wasn't much >>>development during the Blight and its aftermath. >> >>Ok, I'll give you some creative licensing there. Still, I would >think that >>those nations not much affected by the Blight would have had a >>technological renaissance (necessity truly is the mother of >invention) if >>only for economic subsitution purposes. Australia already has the >highest >>patent per capita of any nation, for example. And, I think it >survived the >>blight least scathed, if I am not mistaken. The march of progress >would >>have been slowed, but not stopped as it seems it had in the BP >universe. >>Hmmmm, perhaps it is just my interpretation of how you presented the >>situation. > >Yeah, Australia was one of the least affected. Its mortality rate was >only around 47%, or roughly 28 million casualties. As was the case >elsewhere, the government and economy collapsed, though the Hydrospan >and LavOrg city-states that emerged helped on a local basis. Maybe we >didn't effectively communicate how really *bad* the Blight was... > >Greg Benage >FFG-Biohazard Hybrid *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:44 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 7:26:21 PM Central Standard Time, gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: << Without an enthusiastic and dedicated fan base, BP would have been a much less attractive license ("Great setting...too bad nobody cares"). We owe you all a big thanks...so, Big Thanks! >> ok everybody....big hug!!!! "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ankfix@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:52 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 8:05:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: << Interesting. Good time to ask a question, here: Should we update the timeline, or just assume that we're dealing with an alternate universe after 1997? For example, Saddam probably won't get whacked this year... >> I think you should update the timeline. No need to make any *big* changes, just clean up the little details (like the Saddam thing...) If a prospective buyer piscks up the book, the first thing he or she will likely scan is the timeline. You don't want your game to appear dated right out of the gate like that, as it may well turn that prospective buyer off, or at least sour the first impression. And we all know how important that first impression is. - Fixer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [fwd] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Big News In a message dated 1/18/00 7:56:04 PM Central Standard Time, Ankfix@aol.com writes: << You don't want your game to appear dated right out of the gate like that, as it may well turn that prospective buyer off, or at least sour the first impression. And we all know how important that first impression is. >> I Agree "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Halley1682@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Various things On the subject of the timeline, perhaps leaveing the next few years off might make the need for speculation irrelevant. Of course with any hard science game the whole technology and time line base are speculative. Which brings me to another point of discussion. I and my players have never had a problem with the technology advance in either 2300 AD or Blue Planet. Some of my players are gear heads (at least when it comes to role playing games) but they tend to view the game as just that, a game, subject to differences with the real world. I have played with the same players in fantasy setting and none ever question the existance of magic in the game. None believes in magic outside the game. I guess where I'm going is not a stark critiscism of those who feel that BP does not advance at a sufficient pace, but to point out that the game is not a vehicle for technologic speculation, but instead a vehicle to tell storys about people. At least that's been my experience with Blue Planet since I started the campaign back in September. Thats just my 0.02 cs on the matter. Had to be said. Hope no one is offended. Punching in on other subjects, I would welcome a players book and a game master's book so that the secrets (and the wonderful access denied boxes) are concelaed from the players. I am not a fan of rule changes and I do like the existing system as I have always been partial to simple percentage systems. I suppose though if you are going to post the conversion notes so that the mechanics in future suplements are relevant to us with the first edition rules (which I fully intend to stick with, unless the rewrite is spectacular) I would still go out and buy the books myself and encourage my players to do so as well. Joe D. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:56 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Various things In a message dated 1/18/00 9:48:15 PM Central Standard Time, Halley1682@aol.com writes: << On the subject of the timeline, perhaps leaveing the next few years off might make the need for speculation irrelevant. Of course with any hard science game the whole technology and time line base are speculative. >> I think the Time line should be updated...but I also think that the technology should be a little more "edge pushing...but for the most part I like it...even in the future, retro exists... "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Tech Growth In a message dated 1/18/00 5:34:46 PM Central Standard Time, dbaughn@cadence.com writes: << The only thing I have against BP -- the exact same beef I had with GDW's Traveller and 2300AD -- was the lack of realistic technological growth given the time frames involved. >> Given the lack of historical data, it is also unrealistic to assume that the current rate of scientific advancement will continue. Advancement will slow down, most likely due to a shortage of qualified labor. A current example is the computer industry. Even though there is amazing growth in that area, companies are having a hard time finding qualified people and despite huge earning potential, the number of students entering college for computer related degrees has shown little growth. My company is so desperate for qualified people (5+ years of experience) that they have a $5000 bounty and a $3000 bounty for entry level geeks. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.