From: Adam Lewis [adamswork@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 10:30 PM To: Blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Christophe Stebe... Anyone recognize this name? Or the following message? Ugh...this list is small enough that it's not a big deal, but it can become annoying. AdamL ---"Stebe, Christophe (Luxembourg)" wrote: > > Hi, > > I am not at the office till the 1st of february. > > Please forward your CAD requests to Laurent Berna or the Helpdesk. > > Christophe Stebe > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16@pop.pitt.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 12:36 PM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gene tampering >Scene change to Earth. The wormhole leads here. A very similar planet. Quite possibly, the Progenitors did some work here, too. But no caretakers. Noone knows about them. At least, noone that's talking. That pretty much leaves the really big wales, chimps, orangutans, and gorillas, 'cause we've uplifted all the cetaceans that are left.< IIRC, the Creators worked their magic and moved on billions of years ago, at the dawn of life on both Earth and Poseidon. On Poseidon, they created the Aborigines to guard the fledgling ecosystem, while on Earth they created no such caretaker species; or said species was either destroyed in some ancient mishap or, more interestingly, is still lurking about somewhere, purposely avoiding contact with humankind. (This raises the question: If a caretaker species exists on Earth, why has it allowed human folly to so blight the planet?) >Did they even mess with humans? Maybe the reason we don't have any memory is that they made a bad bet, and picked the Neanderthals. I seem to remember that at one point, they had larger braincases than Cro-magnons, but their vast brains were no match for our puny weapons.< Neanderthal man had a slightly larger brain, but it was developed in different areas. While he had better short-term memory and recall (IIRC), Neanderthal lacked the capacity for long-term planning. Neanderthal tribes survived by wandering methodically across the plains of ice age Eurasia, hunting whatever herd animals they came across. When herd animals were plentiful, there was plenty of food; however, as climatic changes disrupted the migration patterns of the Eurasian fauna and drove many species into extinction, the food supply became scarce. Neanderthal man continued to wander more or less aimlessly across the changing landscape, hunting whatever he could find, which wasn't always enough. His numbers declined even as Cro-Magnon man began tracking the remaining herds along the routes of their migrations, always remaining in a good supply of food. Cro-Magnon supplanted Neanderthal because he was able to make observations and extrapolate ahead to determine where a herd would be at any time of the year. Cro-Magnon multiplied and eventually pushed Neanderthal into marginal territories where hunting was even poorer. The Neanderthal population eventually fell below the level of viability and disappeared. >Or maybe we were a different kind of experiment; left to fend for ourselves, to see if we'd make it. Of course, you'd need an observer, or a self-repairing automated observation post, to check up on things. The latter leaves either a comet, swing by occasionally, or the moon, which is so obvious and so close that it's convenient, and not easy to pick out. The other possibility is that at least one of Earth's species is, or was, smarter than it looks. If our caretakers are extinct, that could be bad. If the Progenitors don't take kindly to that kind of thing, so much the worse.< Perhaps. Earth could be a control in some unimaginably huge and complex experiment in ecology. In that case, we'd be entirely on our own on this world, subject to the complete panoply of natural forces that shape an ecology. Planets like Poseidon, on the other hand, would be at least partially sheltered from the more devastating natural processes, since they'd have a caretaker species to mitigate their effects. Investigation into the evolutionary history of life on Poseidon would likely reveal a marked absence (or near absence) of mass extinctions in the planet's fossil record. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Adam Lewis [adamswork@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 8:11 AM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: [BLUE PLANET] Religion The series by Dan Simmons (Endymion, Hyperion, Fall of Hyperion) has a lot of religious undertones. Actually a lot more then "undertones", the Catholic church rules most of the universe and they've developed some very warped philosophies. A good series though. AdamL ---"Robert P. Stefko" wrote: > > Niven's and Pournelle's "Footfall" contains passages of dialogue between > clergymen of various religions regarding their reactions to the appearance > of an alien spacecraft in Earth orbit. The ideas these characters develop in > their discussion are interesting, and can be mined by GMs with little need > for conversion (they are not specific to the invading aliens, since their > nature at that point in the novel was unknown). > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh596@soton.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 6:56 AM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gene tampering On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:47:27 -0900 Auberon wrote: > pick out. The other possibility is that at least one of Earth's species > is, or was, smarter than it looks. Benji mouse and Frankie mouse perhaps? Sorry. I just wanted to say that before anyone else got in with it. I'll go back to Lurking now. Jason ---------------------- Jason Hockley jh596@soton.ac.uk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [fskln1@uaf.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:26 AM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: [BLUE PLANET] Religion "Robert P. Stefko" wrote: > > Niven's and Pournelle's "Footfall" contains passages of dialogue between > clergymen of various religions regarding their reactions to the appearance > of an alien spacecraft in Earth orbit. The ideas these characters develop in > their discussion are interesting, and can be mined by GMs with little need > for conversion (they are not specific to the invading aliens, since their > nature at that point in the novel was unknown). Oddly enough, I've read that, but I don't remember it. Oh well, excellent excuse to read it again. -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= "I never get involved in my own life. It's too much trouble" - Michael Garibaldi (Babylon 5) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16@pop.pitt.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:11 AM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: [BLUE PLANET] Religion Niven's and Pournelle's "Footfall" contains passages of dialogue between clergymen of various religions regarding their reactions to the appearance of an alien spacecraft in Earth orbit. The ideas these characters develop in their discussion are interesting, and can be mined by GMs with little need for conversion (they are not specific to the invading aliens, since their nature at that point in the novel was unknown). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [fskln1@uaf.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 3:47 AM To: BP list Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Gene tampering ACCESS DENIED In another message, I was pondering the fact that the Progenitors, when they engineered Poseidon, left knowledge of their existance with the caretakers that they created, and made intelligent (the aborigines). Scene change to Earth. The wormhole leads here. A very similar planet. Quite possibly, the Progenitors did some work here, too. But no caretakers. Noone knows about them. At least, noone that's talking. That pretty much leaves the really big wales, chimps, orangutans, and gorillas, 'cause we've uplifted all the cetaceans that are left. Did they even mess with humans? Maybe the reason we don't have any memory is that they made a bad bet, and picked the Neanderthals. I seem to remember that at one point, they had larger braincases than Cro-magnons, but their vast brains were no match for our puny weapons. Or maybe we were a different kind of experiment; left to fend for ourselves, to see if we'd make it. Of course, you'd need an observer, or a self-repairing automated observation post, to check up on things. The latter leaves either a comet, swing by occasionally, or the moon, which is so obvious and so close that it's convenient, and not easy to pick out. The other possibility is that at least one of Earth's species is, or was, smarter than it looks. If our caretakers are extinct, that could be bad. If the Progenitors don't take kindly to that kind of thing, so much the worse. Any comments? -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= "I never get involved in my own life. It's too much trouble" - Michael Garibaldi (Babylon 5) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [fskln1@uaf.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 3:30 AM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Religion Wordman wrote: > > Keep in mind, also, that the first settlers on Poseidon were mostly > scientific types. Genetically altered scientific types. That's bound to > color the indigenous population's religion quite a lot. Which is why I was thinking more pragmatic philosophies. > One example might be a more religious version of the Gaea Theory. I'd love to see a write up on that. Remember that they had a few generations to get less rational in their outlook on the world. -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= "I never get involved in my own life. It's too much trouble" - Michael Garibaldi (Babylon 5) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [fskln1@uaf.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 3:25 AM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - religion - formerly Greetings and questions c718678@showme.missouri.edu wrote: > > I disagree that it would be inappropriate for a game company to predict I think they should, or at least discuss possible implications. If it wasn't made too big a part of the game world, then people could take it or leave it, as their philosophical leanings and whims allow. > the reactions to news of intelligent life. Speculation is what its all > about, anyways. And I think it could be done without stepping on anyone's > toes or imposing the beliefs of the authors on the gamers. For instance, Nicely sums up the whole anti-PC thing. > as I understand it, judeo-christian theology considers God to be God of > the Universe (not just of Earth) and could conceivably just accept the > aborigines as another of God's creations and a part of his plan like I can see some branches taking that approach, but the basic problem that fundamentalist Christians would have is this: God is shown in the book of Genesis to create the Earth, the sun, and all the critters on Earth, including Man, who was created intelligent to serve and glorify God (or something like that. Corrections welcome). Now you've got a whole other planet, orbiting a whole other sun, with whole other orders of life, things never seen on Earth, and (again, as I understand it) since Genesis doesn't say God created it, then that leaves it in a sticky philosophical spot. It would be questionable whether, after passing through the wormhole, you'd still be in the sight of God, and the very definition of Hell is being removed from the sight, and thus the love, of God. Pile on that an intelligent specie that lives only in, and is native to this system. Out of the sight of God. In Hell. Can you imagine just what some nuts would do in response to this? I think nuking the hell out of the whole planet would be an excellent beginning, from that point of view. All the braver, since the people doing so would have to pass through the wormhole, and maybe forever damn themselves, to do so. Nothing like a martyr. > humans are. It would diminish the geo-centric feel of the religion, but > that's been diminishing since Galileo and would probably be pretty tiny > after the discovery of even non-intelligent life on a different planet. > They could even see it as evidence of God's greatness - that his plans > include life from distant parts of the universe. Again, moderates would definitely go this way. Unfortunately, moderates are a quiet majority. The real nuts make so much noise, it sounds like there are more of them. > INCLUDES SPOILERS/ ACCESS DENIED! > > No intelligent life? What about the aborigines? I just didn't feel like throwing an Access Denied section into that post. And besides, the truth about abos is restricted to a few isolated natives, the Progenitors, and the GM. So the religious impact would be zero. Now if one of the aforementioned natives came forward, due to strong religions leanings, he'd be labeled a nutter. Unless he subsequently disappeared under queer circumstances. Or better yet, killed himself, maybe after a swim in waters where abos had been sighted. That might start more rumors. > Other games deal directly with gods -AD&D can use them as characters, > Legend of the Five Rings uses them to describe the history of the land, > etc. Blue Planet is obviously more realistic than these types of games, > but its still fiction; certainly the talk about the "Creators" and how > they seem to have also touched humans shouldn't be considered blasphemy > and more than the talk of the seven(?) gods in L5R. May or may not have messed with humans. I love the tantalizing implication. But you're right. Casting the Progenitors in the role of the One True God could ruffle some feathers. Fortunately, those people are all doinking their relatives too much to read between the lines to get that :-> Seriously, tho, The Progenitors left the abos with knowledge that of their (the Progenitors') existance. The humans have no such knowledge. Speculation on this one could be a whole 'nother (long) thread. I think I'm gonna go start it. -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= "I never get involved in my own life. It's too much trouble" - Michael Garibaldi (Babylon 5) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.