From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:10 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise >Well, as a GM, I have to say that such a book would probably be the one Blue >Planet product I *wouldn't* buy. I've seen a lot of "GM advice resources" >over the years, and it has always struck me that all of them, to a lesser or >greater extent -- usually greater -- tend to repeat one another. I'm advocating GM advice on the assumption it will be innovative, mind you :) What I'm concerned about are things like "How to fake it when you don't know it." For general examples, things like macroeconomics, industrial concerns and political relations are things that I know very little about. Most of my education in how international relations function has been from conspiracy theories and Hollywood movies - and that's far from a solid ground on which to base a diplomatic game :) For a more BP-focused idea, advice and resources on how to fake local atmosphere or NPCs would be great. How do I make sure that my Kingston stands out and is remembered as distinct from my Dyffedd? How do I do that without seeming artificial and forced? I think the problem with GM advice is not that they are repetitive, but that they repeat the _wrong_ things. Sometimes it's the most basic advice that _bears_ repeating but if often glossed over because the authors assume the GMs know that already. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:12 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Kromosome >Hey wow, some one else has Kromosome! What did you think of it? I am >considering mining some of its bio-tech for BP. I think this came up before, actually, and I think it's worth looting for some basic biotech ideas, and maybe for the system map and the microcorp idea, but beyond that any use or quality is iffy. I'm tempted to try tooling around with the system a bit to incorporate it's _details_ into an Unknown Armies game. I'd say it's worth flipping through and keeping on your shelf, but not hunting down and buying, like I did :) - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:15 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise >Yeah, these sort of things...but I'd like more detail on them. How big is >the average Native Patrol squad? To be honest, I think it would depend on local resources. In a village of 30 or so where there are 2 patrolmen, I'd say each squad is only 1 :) In Haven, I'd say that patrolmen work in teams of 2-4, depending. I'd bend it to plot and campaign needs :) >Does HIST have science teams that aren't >professors & students, but are instead composed of several professionals? I would assume so, since that is how real universities work. >Meh. A lot of the Incorporate and GEO stuff isn't that useful to most >campaigns - for example, having biographies of all the various High >Commissioners is nice, but how often are PCs going to meet any of them. Depends whether their Elite or not :) >Having more stuff on things GEO people can do on a day-to-day basis would be >nice. I do agree with you 100% there. Some words on how to bend the great and mighty GEO into your campaign would be nice. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:02 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - D20 die system (no, not _that_ d20...) >You don't have to tell them anything except 'this number is your skill, >and add the result, if it's good enough you succeed', like many systems. >The GM's task is harder, but I'd say only 'average', looking at various >game systems. Definitely more work than I would want to have to deal with :) >Because it's very very very hard to use modifiers that multiply fractionally. hmmmm. Perhaps, I don't know if the increased complication of the logarithmic system is less than the complication that fractional modifiers though. And I just have an aversion to logarithmics, I've done _waaay_ to many log and (especially!) semi-log graphs for physics labs. >So most modifiers are linear and sort of handwave toward the result. But >then, you can't ever say 'hmm, I want the odds to be 2/3 normal'. In >GURPS, 2 points of increased difficulty has widely varying effects, >depending on what the base number is. Mm. That's definitely true, but depending on your POV, that might be a good thing. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion Cabos; resonatos with thermos rather than pluto. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:19 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise ----- Original Message ----- From: Kintaro Oe > For a more BP-focused idea, advice and resources on how to fake local > atmosphere or NPCs would be great. How do I make sure that my Kingston > stands out and is remembered as distinct from my Dyffedd? How do I do that > without seeming artificial and forced? > This is what I was getting at when I asked for spot maps, spot Illustrations would also be nice. Information on things like how is a typical Native village laid out, what is the configuration of a standard modular habitat, what does Posiedon look like? What does the food taste like? More local colour. How do I capture the subtleties that say "this is not Earth"? If this were a more "space opera" sort of game I wouldn't worry about it, but BP seems to be striving for a very realistic atmosphere and I want to build on that. A "look under the hood" packed with the GM's screen would also be interesting. I like the Aptitude system and others from BP char gen, but never thought of using it as a "class" system, more tips on how to get the most out of the systems would be great. Don't take that as a plea to make the mechanics more important than the story, just asking for a look at what the design assumptions were. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sean Briggs [lucifiel@compuserve.com] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 2:33 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise > I'm advocating GM advice on the assumption it will be innovative, mind you :) > > What I'm concerned about are things like "How to fake it when you don't > know it." For general examples, things like macroeconomics, industrial > concerns and political relations are things that I know very little about. > Most of my education in how international relations function has been from > conspiracy theories and Hollywood movies - and that's far from a solid > ground on which to base a diplomatic game :) > > For a more BP-focused idea, advice and resources on how to fake local > atmosphere or NPCs would be great. How do I make sure that my Kingston > stands out and is remembered as distinct from my Dyffedd? How do I do that > without seeming artificial and forced? It looks like we're going to have to accept that we're not going to convince one another, since the only part of your message I could read without an argument coming to mind is the first sentence. :) I suppose I'm something of a dinosaur, since I really feel stifled by games that try to do everything for the GM. That's one reason I've really enjoyed Blue Planet thus far -- FFG has provided enough information in the supplements thus far that I really do feel the difference between (for example) Dyffedd and Kingston, and yet I can fill in most of the details myself, and create a campaign that'll let me tell the stories I want to tell. On page four of the Moderator's Guide, the writers admit that Blue Planet is different from other games precisely because it doesn't provide a limited set of campaign choices. They also admit that this requires more work from the Moderator. I like it that way. If I want to know the design of a standard modular habitat, I'm quite happy to do it myself -- after all, I only need to so once. :) If I need to design a native village, I'll do it in a way that reflects what I want to do with it. Besides, I've found that my players often seem to appreciate campaigns that bear my personal touch, as opposed to ones run completely out of sourcebooks. I've also found that if I need information on a real-world topic, whether it be macroeconomics or nuclear submarines or the history of black powder revolvers, it's usually easier and more accurate to research it myself, rather than to rely on a game company to do it for me. Not that most of the players I've known would notice anyway... > I think the problem with GM advice is not that they are repetitive, but > that they repeat the _wrong_ things. Sometimes it's the most basic advice > that _bears_ repeating but if often glossed over because the authors assume > the GMs know that already. This is probably where we part ways most dramatically. I fail to see why I should be interested in buying a book that repeats *anything* I already have, whether it bears repeating or not. There are already a dozen books out there that contain GM advice, not to mention numerous columns and articles on the internet, some of which are better than any of the books. Why should FFG print another, especially when (as has already been mentioned) it'll appeal only to a limited portion of their already relatively small market niche? - Sean Briggs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 3:23 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Briggs To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise I think Sean is replying to kintaro Oe here, but as i have also contributed to this thread I'll give my thoughts here as well. > > I suppose I'm something of a dinosaur, since I really feel stifled by games > that try to do everything for the GM. That's one reason I've really enjoyed > Blue Planet thus far -- FFG has provided enough information in the > supplements thus far that I really do feel the difference between (for > example) Dyffedd and Kingston, and yet I can fill in most of the details > myself, and create a campaign that'll let me tell the stories I want to > tell. On page four of the Moderator's Guide, the writers admit that Blue > Planet is different from other games precisely because it doesn't provide a > limited set of campaign choices. They also admit that this requires more > work from the Moderator. I like it that way. If I want to know the design of > a standard modular habitat, I'm quite happy to do it myself -- after all, I > only need to so once. :) If I need to design a native village, I'll do it in > a way that reflects what I want to do with it. Besides, I've found that my > players often seem to appreciate campaigns that bear my personal touch, as > opposed to ones run completely out of sourcebooks. My own concern is my limitted prep-time available for gaming. I find that any time I don't have to spend designing common structures, generating ordinary citizens and the like is more time I can devote to the main plot and important NPCs. I do like the open ended nature of Blue Planet. I for one am dying to know what is on some of the remoter Islands, the ones out side of the Archepelago. However I would actually be happier to see these detailed in Undercurrents or on someones web page or this list, because then those descriptions would be "unofficial" and I could use or change them a bit more freely. I would find a complete atlas to be restrictive in exactly the way I think you are talking about. I am not trying to convince you (Sean) or anyone else that I am "righter" in this opinion. It is my opinion and yours is likely different, I hope that your campaign style is also different. I am mearly using this forum, as are you and the rest of the list, to express my opinions where somebody at Biohazard can read them. I hope that they will read all of our opinions and do what they feel best suits the majority of Blue Planet fans while staying true to what they see as the Core of Blue Planet (call it BP prime if you like). > > I've also found that if I need information on a real-world topic, whether it > be macroeconomics or nuclear submarines or the history of black powder > revolvers, it's usually easier and more accurate to research it myself, > rather than to rely on a game company to do it for me. Not that most of the > players I've known would notice anyway... I have a large library of non-fiction that I have aquired while researching various topics for (or inspired by) one game or another. See all you homeschoolers, gaming really is educational! > > > I think the problem with GM advice is not that they are repetitive, but > > that they repeat the _wrong_ things. Sometimes it's the most basic advice > > that _bears_ repeating but if often glossed over because the authors > assume > > the GMs know that already. > > This is probably where we [Sean and Derek] part ways most dramatically. I fail to see why I > should be interested in buying a book that repeats *anything* I already > have, whether it bears repeating or not. There are already a dozen books out > there that contain GM advice, not to mention numerous columns and articles > on the internet, some of which are better than any of the books. Why should > FFG print another, especially when (as has already been mentioned) it'll > appeal only to a limited portion of their already relatively small market > niche? > > - Sean Briggs I agree that I don't particularly want yet another book of how to generate a character with an interesting background, how to write an adventure plot etc. A collection of essays about life on Posiedon would be of more use to me, especially if they were presented as story vignettes, tour guide exerpts and other "in character" presentations rather than a third person omniscient "here is the objective reality of Blue Planet, your campaign must not deviate" style. Again I would be jsut as happy or happier to see this in UC or on the net. --dave *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sean Briggs [lucifiel@compuserve.com] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 4:16 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise From: "David R. Crowell" > I am not trying to convince you (Sean) or anyone else that I am "righter" in > this opinion. It is my opinion and yours is likely different, I hope that > your campaign style is also different. I am mearly using this forum, as are > you and the rest of the list, to express my opinions where somebody at > Biohazard can read them. Similarly, I hope I haven't come across as having come down too harshly on anyone else's opinions -- like you, I'm trying to express my own in a forum where the BP guys can possibly see them. If it weren't for that, I probably wouldn't be playing the devil's advocate quite as strongly. > I have a large library of non-fiction that I have aquired while researching > various topics for (or inspired by) one game or another. See all you > homeschoolers, gaming really is educational! LOL! Actually, one of the topics I'm considering for my eventual master's degree is based on research on twelfth-century Japan that I'd originally done for an online campaign based on the Highlander movies. :) > I agree that I don't particularly want yet another book of how to generate a > character with an interesting background, how to write an adventure plot > etc. A collection of essays about life on Posiedon would be of more use to > me, especially if they were presented as story vignettes, tour guide exerpts > and other "in character" presentations rather than a third person omniscient > "here is the objective reality of Blue Planet, your campaign must not > deviate" style. Again I would be jsut as happy or happier to see this in UC > or on the net. I'd also be interested in that sort of thing, although I think that FFG has already done a great job with the vignettes in the Blue Planet books. I've also found many of their illustrations very evocative -- the city illustration on page 36 of the Moderator's Guide gives me ideas just looking at it, and I love the native village on page 204 of the Player's Guide. - Sean *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Mantisking@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 5:39 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - d20 Blue Planet Hello All; Greg Benage wrote "And, BTW, if you come up with a good class name for "The Charismatic Person With Strong Social Skills Who Is Good With People" let me know. "Noble," as used in Star Wars d20, is just inaccurate for many characters. "Administrator" is just lame, and also inaccurate for many character types. Most of the other terms for this kind of person are somewhat negative: Hustler, Operator, Manipulator. Very annoying." Umm, how about Diplomat? Strong, accurate, not lame, not negative (Does that count as using a double negative?). Ray Bull *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 6:03 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Briggs To: > > Similarly, I hope I haven't come across as having come down too harshly on > anyone else's opinions -- Not at all, so far this discussion has remained admirably civil. like you, I'm trying to express my own in a forum > where the BP guys can possibly see them. If it weren't for that, I probably > wouldn't be playing the devil's advocate quite as strongly. Good, some one needs to play that role > .> > I'd also be interested in that sort of thing, although I think that FFG has > already done a great job with the vignettes in the Blue Planet books. I've > also found many of their illustrations very evocative -- the city > illustration on page 36 of the Moderator's Guide gives me ideas just looking > at it, and I love the native village on page 204 of the Player's Guide. I agree, I just want more. Greedy aren't I? I'm fond of the school scene, and a couple of the other daily life scenes that show the gills on squids and such, the little touches that say "We're not in Kansas anymore" --dave > > - Sean > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 6:47 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Undercurrents 7 ----- Original Message ----- From: Heivilin, Jim To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Undercurrents 7 . But the more fan submissions we get for > Undercurrents, the sooner the next issue will be ready for release! > > So get typin'! > > Jim > *************************************************************************** > Are there any submission guidelines we should follow? I have a couple of ideas for short pieces. One is a new creature, I think I missed the deadline for the field guide so I'd like to send it to UC. A second is a few of the "Street People" encounters I mentioned in one of my posts. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:46 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise Once upon a time, I picked up Fading Suns (when it first came out). I read through the book and thought that it was extremely cool. I lent the book to a couple of friends to look over. They read it and thought that it was extremely cool as well. Then they asked : "So what do the characters do?" I didn't have an answer as I couldn't figure it out myself. As a result, we didn't play the game nor did I bother picking up the supplements. Fast forward a few years. A review of 2nd edition was posted on RPGnet. In the forums, I asked the question that has been haunting me for a few years. "What do the characters do in Fading Suns?" I was told "anything that they wanted". Some people were amazed that I had even asked that question as they had no problem thinking of a dozen different campaigns. Does any of this sound familar? Those of us on this mailing list are hardcore fans. We are not the guy who bought the game because it looked cool and then leave it sit on the shelf because he can't think of what to do with it. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sean Briggs [lucifiel@compuserve.com] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 10:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise From: > Does any of this sound familar? > > Those of us on this mailing list are hardcore fans. We are not the guy who > bought the game because it looked cool and then leave it sit on the shelf > because he can't think of what to do with it. Blue Planet admits up front that it's not a game in which all the characters are expected to fill a single specific role. There are nine suggestions for possible campaign premises on page five of the Moderator's Guide. There are adventure hooks scattered throughout the Moderator's Guide and First Colony, as well as several actual adventures in the latter. Exactly what else do you feel is needed? - Sean *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Atti2dboy@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 10:33 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - d20 Blue Planet In a message dated 2/2/01 9:20:24 AM, gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: >And, BTW, if you come up with a good class name for "The Charismatic >Person With Strong Social Skills Who Is Good With People" let me know. >"Noble," as used in Star Wars d20, is just inaccurate for many >characters. "Administrator" is just lame, and also inaccurate for many >character types. Most of the other terms for this kind of person are >somewhat negative: Hustler, Operator, Manipulator. Very annoying. Could it be that are culture ifnds such people somewhat negative? ;-) What do you think of Socialite, Charmer, Negotiator, or Talker? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Robert N. Emerson [cudraoi@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 10:41 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - d20 Blue Planet Greetings, A few titles you could give, especially in this setting, are as follows (these are only suggestions): Networker (obviously a corp), Carouser, Suave (a verb, like noble, but something that fits), Chummer (hey, it's a good term - Shadowrun aside), or a Convincer/Convincement Artist (yes, this one is a negative term). Anyhow, if I think of a few more later on I'll post it - by the way, this is my first post here. Robert N. Emerson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - d20 Blue Planet > > In a message dated 2/2/01 9:20:24 AM, gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: > > >And, BTW, if you come up with a good class name for "The Charismatic > >Person With Strong Social Skills Who Is Good With People" let me know. > >"Noble," as used in Star Wars d20, is just inaccurate for many > >characters. "Administrator" is just lame, and also inaccurate for many > >character types. Most of the other terms for this kind of person are > >somewhat negative: Hustler, Operator, Manipulator. Very annoying. > > Could it be that are culture ifnds such people somewhat negative? ;-) > What do you think of Socialite, Charmer, Negotiator, or Talker? > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.