From: Dr Ian McDonald [ian.mcdonald@iname.com] Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 4:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise This whole discussion reminds me of Ryan Dancey's comment that one of the reasons for D&D's success is that it has a "core narrative". Personally, I find his argument (and his claim to be backed up by resarch) convincing. For example, if you play a game of D&D, you know that your characters will be killing evil fantasy people in order to loot their belongings. For BP to do well, potential campaign premises shouldn't be in the first chapter of the moderators guide. They shouldn't even be on the first chapter of the main book. They should be on the cover of the main book. Just IMHO. Sean Briggs wrote: > Blue Planet admits up front that it's not a game in which all the characters > are expected to fill a single specific role. There are nine suggestions for > possible campaign premises on page five of the Moderator's Guide. There are > adventure hooks scattered throughout the Moderator's Guide and First Colony, > as well as several actual adventures in the latter. > > Exactly what else do you feel is needed? > > - Sean > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. -- Ian McDonald http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 1:55 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Earth System Possibilities > > I would be inclined to say "no" to life on Io, Europa, Titan or any other > > Solar body, if only to emphasis the unique and almost disturbing nature of > > Posiedon itself. > >Too late. Life on Europa was discovered in 2013, according to the timeline >in the Player's Guide... Damn! I'm going to have to learn how to Span one of these days to fix those little discrepencies so I'm always right :) >There's also the wierd...thingies on Poseidon's moon, Proteus. I do not _know_ what is up with that. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion "How much humiliation can four people and a penguin take?" -Ninku the Movie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dr Ian McDonald [ian.mcdonald@iname.com] Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 5:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - d20 System Me too. d20 is, for some strange reason, the best-known system. If the licensing issues could be resolved, an introductory d20 version of BP might do your bottom line some good. In an ideal world, there would be a rules-light system with the same kind of broad knowledge base. (Preferably Fudge, but I am pessimistic about that happening.) "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > BUT, if we can bring him something in the d20 > system, he won't have to learn new mechanics. So it's more likely when we > want to take a break from our current campaign, that we could convince him > to run something in that system than something *entirely* new (say Star Trek > TNG by Last Unicorn). > > Jim > > Jim Heivilin, System Administrator > Open Systems, IAT Services > University of Missouri at Columbia > mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898 > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. -- Ian McDonald http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Eric Ducreux [educreux@uk.noha-systems.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:23 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - [OT] YAK - Polaris v3 for free... Hello FOlks, For those interested (and who speak French as well (o;{{) the version 3 of Polaris is being give out for free. The word files containing ALL of the main book (without the artwork) is downloadable from the web site of one of the guy in charge of writing it: Polaris On-Line : http://www.multimania.com/maierste/index.htm File directly here: http://www.multimania.com/maierste/images/Ed3.zip Also, for the English version, it is *supposed* to stay secret until the GenCo (o; Anyway, for those who will be at the Convention in Edinburgh (17/18th of March), I will be running Polaris there. Eric. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:25 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Street Encounter Please do, and add Wgner's follow up if you and he like as well. --dave ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisTheS To: Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Street Encounter > Mind if I post this on Storm Surge? > > -- ChrisTheS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David R. Crowell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 4:20 AM > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Street Encounter > > > > Here is a brief encounter or Access Denied. I have my own version of what > > the "real story" is feel free to make up what ever suits your campaign. > > > > Aborigine Autopsy > > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Konstantinos Rentas [mitsosoftheelves@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:12 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Hi! Hello to everyone, i'm new to the list.I've just red the 2 main books and i must say that the game is one of the best SF settings i've ever seen.My congratulations to BH and FF. Now,i have some questions.They might be old news but how would i know. -Does the ice of the poles of Poseidon cover land or just plain water? -I presume not every secret of the Aborigines,and most importantly of the Creators,has been revealed in the MG. -Is there a rough schedule of the books to come? That is for now. Thanks in advance and may you all have some great watery adventures. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wagner utiel [utiel@df.ufscar.br] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:14 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP Thank you for your answer What I call Genetic Determinism is in the meaning of the old mechanics determinism (classical view of the world): if you knew the initial state of your system, and have the correct equations, you will know exactly the future of this state. I don't know if in the future we will observe that the DNA manipulation is more probabilistic than deterministic. In the quantum scale you will have many possible futures. In the case of DNA manipulation you can have the same. You can make a little manipulation and the some manipulation can have many possible consequences. In the BP this is not true. All the genetic manipulation is deterministic and you will always know exactly the results. But like I wrote in the past message I'm not a genetic researcher and maybe I don't understand the premisse. And about a huge breakthroughs in physics wait some years and you will see. The physics of elementaries particles will have a great revision. The use of a more complex concept of symmetry will lead us a knew physics. The main problem is that the physics before 1900 has the most solid theoretical structure in all the science with the Newton's mechanics and the Maxwell' s magnetism. Then in the XX came the Quantum physics and the General Relativity that made a revolution the physics. Now after 100 years we know that these theories are not fundamental, and a new theory will merge. I don't know if this new theory will make a revolution as the Quantum mechanics or relativity done in the classical view of the world, but many new concepts will merge. About the physics in the BP I think that in 2199 we will have sensors that will detect all the life forms, mineral forms and make a completely topological map of the Poseidon's oceans. There will not have secrets in the ocean. We will can detect all the non-natural structure of non-natural metal in the more deep ocean. I can ask to some experimental researcher here in the university for a more conclusive point of view, but i think that today we can easily verify if the Long John is natural or artificial. We can study the ground state energy, we can study the orbital-spin interactions and compare with the Poseidon natural magnetic field, etc. And the last: its is not possible to have a natural wormhole like wormhole in the BP settings. In the macroscopic scale we will need a artificial form of matter called Exotic matter to make the wormhole stable in the macroscopic scale and with litte tidal forces or radiation. But remember the BP is a game and in a science fiction game if we will use the correct laws of physics the game will be very limited. Wagner PS: we will have AI in the 2199. Christopher Gribbon wrote: > Well - theoretically it doesn't exist: but see some of the "Access Denied" story seeds in the > > GM book about Dyffedd > > Er - I'm not sure what you're asking here... > If you're asking about crossbreeding between, for example, a Cat hybrid and a Squid > Aquaform; what would the child be like? Then I don't think it's been done yet. It might be > an interesting thing to consider. > > The Aquaform traits are X-linked dominant, so they will be passed down to both male and > femals children normally (though crossbreeding with Unmodified Humans would produce > "carrier" females who could potentially have "unmodified" children) > I don't know how the other "Genies" work - I don't think it's been specicifed. If they were > also X-linked dominant (which is quite likely), then male children would be the same as their > mother, while girls would be either a "one-or-the-other", have some traits of both, or (again, > more likely) would be non-viable and would die prenatally. > > > I don't think there have been any huge breakthroughs in physics (in the way there obviously > have been in Biology and Genetics) - though fusion now works, and I'm sure studying the > wormhole has given a lot of physicists both wet dreams and nightmares all at once. > Still - I'm a Biologist, so maybe *my* prejudices are showing through. > > Well - I didn't understand the physics involved at all - so don't worry about it. > > Christopher Gribbon > Vision Research Laboratories > Medical Sciences Institute > University of Dundee > Dundee DD1 5EH > UK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:27 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hi! > -Does the ice of the poles of Poseidon cover land or just plain water? I don't think it's been mentioned. I'm guessing water, given the lack of dry land generally on Poseidon. > -I presume not every secret of the Aborigines,and most importantly of the > Creators,has been revealed in the MG. Seems to be a fairly safe assumption. > -Is there a rough schedule of the books to come? Greg Benage (line developer) posted this a few days ago: "[Fronter Justice (the marshal book) is out, and Survey (the wilderness book) is in development.] > And after that is Fin, I assume. Any other "long term plans"? After the cetacean book is "Black Crusade," the GEO Internal Security vs. Incorporate espionage/covert ops campaign book. If possible, I'd like to get this one out by Origins; if not, expect it later in July. For GenCon, we plan to have "Airlock," a book full of deckplans and detailed descriptions of Prosperity Station, Rock Bottom, an interstellar torchship, a deep-sea research station, and other vessels and facilities. Then, in October, we'll kick off the first installment in the "Storm Series," a planned trilogy of campaign sourcebooks in which we'll find out where the growing political tensions on Poseidon are taking us. " Gar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:11 AM To: 'list, blue planet' Subject: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - ATTN: Important People - Error/Typo > -----Original Message----- > From: "Poh Tun Kai" > To: > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - ATTN: Important People - Error/Typo > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:37:19 -0500 > > Sir Charles said: > > This should read 'nictitating'. While some gaming sites > etc will say > > 'nictating', university sites and people with PhD's say > 'nictitating'. > I'm more > > inclined towards the latter *chuckles* Thanks. > > Klaatu...Barada...Nict- > > Kai Poh > Malaysian Lagomorph > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 10:38 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Errors and Typos? > -----Original Message----- > From: Sir Charles [mailto:chalz@earthlink.net] > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Errors and Typos? > > Sorry to bug everyone here, but a friend said that Important > People read this list, and maybe others will have the info > I request :) > I'm not important but I can get stuff to Jeff and (with a bit more effort) Greg (who are the Important People(tm)). > Anyone know to whom I can write about errors, typos, etc from > the source book, and nitpicking details? I appreciate the info. > The only addresses I got from the FFG and Biohaz. sites seemed > like company addresses. > Drop me an email and I'll see what needs to be done. I have been lax in updating the errata page and I apologize for it. I've also been lax in looking at what's wrong with the restricted database. I'll try to get to that as soon as I can. Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games http://www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 1:18 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP Your forgetting 1 little thing: economics. Research costs money. Transforming research into an actual product costs even more money. As our understanding of the world increases, the number of different fields to research increases as well. As our understanding of a particular field increases, it requires more training for a new scientist to enter that field. Also, the cost for new breakthroughs increases as well as more specialized and expensive equipment is needed. However, there is still a finite amount of money to spend on the research. Then there is the engineering required to transform pure science into an actual device. Many dreamers and futurists simply don't understand that there are many problems that have to be dealt with before something will work in the field. Take for example the Power PC chip that was developed by Motorola. It is a fast chip that uses little power and gives off little heat. Seems like the perfect chip to use in cheap satelite systems. However, its design crossed a threshold and the chip is very vunerable to various high energy particles that are found outside the lower atmosphere. Another example is energy weapons. We have had the techology since the 1970's to develope a working stun gun. But due to economic reasons, a serious attempt to build one didn't start until 2 years ago. Another example is the laser printer. The laser printer was developed in the 1969, yet it did not see wide spread use until the 1990's. To relate more to Blue Planet: The Blight. It was extremely disruptive to the scientific community. Not only did it drain monies away from other areas of research, it set back non-Blight related research by several generations. With the depopulation of Earth and resources drawn away to combat the Blight, it would became extremely difficult to develope the next generation of researchers. This would have a domino effect on later generations as well. While the actual knowledge would not be lost, the ability to comprehend it would be. Without being able to comprehend it, it is impossible to make the next breakthrough. Look at AI research. A few months ago on Slashdot, there was an interview with a leading AI researcher (I forget his name). One of the questions was if AI developement could be placed in the realm of Open Source. (after all it worked for Linux). The researcher stated quite bluntly that nothing would be gained by placing it into the Open Source world as the knowledge needed to do any real work on it was extremely specialized and difficult to come by. It wasn't something that you could learn by reading a book on the subject, a teacher was needed. BTW, many AI reserches have been saying that true AI is only 10 years away. Of course, they have been saying that for the last 30 years. There has been considerable debate over the last 30 years as to if true AI is even possible. Given the Blight and general economic considerations, I would say that BP science is a fairly good guess at were we would be. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wagner utiel [utiel@df.ufscar.br] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:22 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP You are correct in many aspects but I am talking about some basic research without an immediate technological perspective. For example, I work with theoretical physics and with mathematics-physics and I don't need supercomputers because I work in exact calculus and no simulation. Then for my research I don't need much money. Many others as me can work in the fundamentals aspects of science without the need of much money and our work can be used in some technological research in the future. In physics for example the breakthrough was done by new theories and no experimental research. When Maxwell established the eletromagnetism theory nobody knew how to use his theory in some pratical way, but some years after all the industrial revolution with the use of eletricity was based in his theory. And in the economic aspect the Japan and the U.S.A, for example, with its corporations has many researches working in basic science. I knew people in the Microsoft with work in Statistical Mechanics without some pratical application in mind. If your corporation is in a competitive market you will have to spend much money in basic research or your company will fall. There is no technological advance without basic research and in general this type of research don't use much money as you think. Wagner PS: Please i'm not saying that i don't like the BP setting. What I said is that in the point of view of a physics or engineer the Hard Science of BP is wonderfull in the biological perspective. But, in my opnion the BP is the only true "Scientific RPG" and I like this. Ml10@aol.com wrote: > Your forgetting 1 little thing: economics. > Research costs money. Transforming research > into an actual product costs even more money. > > As our understanding of the world increases, > the number of different fields to research > increases as well. As our understanding of a > particular field increases, it requires more > training for a new scientist to enter that > field. Also, the cost for new breakthroughs > increases as well as more specialized and > expensive equipment is needed. > > However, there is still a finite amount of > money to spend on the research. > > Then there is the engineering required to > transform pure science into an actual > device. Many dreamers and futurists simply > don't understand that there are many > problems that have to be dealt with before > something will work in the field. > > Take for example the Power PC chip that > was developed by Motorola. It is a fast > chip that uses little power and gives off > little heat. Seems like the perfect chip to > use in cheap satelite systems. However, its > design crossed a threshold and the chip is > very vunerable to various high energy particles > that are found outside the lower atmosphere. > > Another example is energy weapons. We have > had the techology since the 1970's to > develope a working stun gun. But due to > economic reasons, a serious attempt to > build one didn't start until 2 years ago. > > Another example is the laser printer. The > laser printer was developed in the 1969, > yet it did not see wide spread use until the > 1990's. > > To relate more to Blue Planet: > The Blight. It was extremely disruptive to > the scientific community. Not only did it drain > monies away from other areas of research, it > set back non-Blight related research by several > generations. With the depopulation of Earth > and resources drawn away to combat the Blight, > it would became extremely difficult to develope > the next generation of researchers. This would > have a domino effect on later generations as well. > While the actual knowledge would not be lost, > the ability to comprehend it would be. Without > being able to comprehend it, it is impossible to > make the next breakthrough. > > Look at AI research. A few months ago on > Slashdot, there was an interview with a > leading AI researcher (I forget his name). > One of the questions was if AI developement > could be placed in the realm of Open Source. > (after all it worked for Linux). The researcher > stated quite bluntly that nothing would be > gained by placing it into the Open Source > world as the knowledge needed to do any real > work on it was extremely specialized and > difficult to come by. It wasn't something > that you could learn by reading a book on > the subject, a teacher was needed. > > BTW, many AI reserches have been saying that > true AI is only 10 years away. Of course, > they have been saying that for the last 30 > years. There has been considerable debate > over the last 30 years as to if true AI is > even possible. > > Given the Blight and general economic > considerations, I would say that BP science > is a fairly good guess at were we would be. > > Mike Z > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dr Ian McDonald [ian.mcdonald@iname.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:25 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise I don't see why it hurts the core concept. The LUG Star Trek TNG game, for example, has a core narrative but doesn't stop you from playing a different setting. (Although I suspect the DS9 game doesn't have one.) kabael@softhome.net wrote: > > I have to say that the best games are those that leave that open, actually. > Blue Planet, Nobilis, Unknown Armies, Continuum, Fading Suns, Planescape > etc. All games that are great and often receive the reaction of "Great, > what do I do with it now?" > > Of course since none of those games have ever really received the degree of > success they deserve, I must sadly agree with your statement that focus > sells. Unforatunately it usually also hurts the game concept :) > > Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 > > Opinionated reviewer extraordinaire > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. -- Ian McDonald http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/alternative.html http://travel.to/startrekcolony - Star Trek: Colony site & .mov http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~type40/who-rpg.html - Dr. Who RPGs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:22 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport Looking at the maps and the vehicle ranges from the Player's guide and Fluid Mechanics I ran into the question of what do people on Poseidon use for long range transport? Are there regularly scheduled air travel runs between major cities? Long range cargo ships? I am curious. It comes up because my players are interested in a smugglers campaign and a jump craft seems a less than ideal vehicle in some ways for that business. What is the BP equivalent of a tramp steamer or fishing trawler? has anybody worked up game stats for such vessels or should I just use information from contemporary ships? Are there any remote fuel depots on some of the un-named-dot-of-rock-in-a-big-ocean islands? A few map questions arising from this: I assume that the Native Villages shown on the maps are the largest, best known, or possibly those on record by GEO surveys. Are there others? I plan to add a few small ones here and there unless the population of the Archipelago is really that minuscule. I noticed a few discrepancies in the locations of Islands, reefs etc between the various maps. I am putting these down to the differences in scale and the fact that these are general maps not nautical charts, but it is one for the errata file anyway. Has anything been said about what is happening in the other archipelagos and small islands on the world map? I'm mostly just curious on this one, and don't feel like rereading everything to find out. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:32 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP Covered basic research as well. With a decrease in students and limited job openings for graduates, basic research will be hit as hard as praticle research. As less students enter a university to study a subject, the more likely a university will drop that subject. It happened at my school. At one time there wasn't enough math geeks to justify a full math department so the school scaled it back and only offered undergrad course for engineers. When it decided to offer Masters and Phd's in Math again, it took them about 5 years to get the program back up to speed. Now imagine this happening on a wide scale over a long period of time. Lets say that it costs a school $100,000 a year to hire a young professor. This money has to come from somewhere. Grants, tuition, and endowments are the major souces of income for a private school. During the Blight most of the grant and endowment money went to Blight related research. This means that there is less money for non-Blight related departments. This means that many of those departments will have to be scaled back. This means that a department can't produce as many new researchers as it did in the past. Lets take 100 schools that before the Blight offered a Phd in Math. By the end of the Blight, only 10 schools might be offering a Phd in Math. Over a period of 30 years, the 100 schools should have produced 6000 new researchers (2/year/school). If the number of schools offering Phd's declined at a steady rate, this would mean that only 3300 were produced. This means that there are less researchers to teach later generations and the number of Math Phds would decline further before it began to rise again. During the period following the Blight when schools try to increase the number of researchers, the existing researchers will spend more time teaching than researching. BTW, I've argued the rate of advancement with my players many times. One of them has an annoying habit and related fetish. He loves figuring out how to destroy everything. He also loves antimatter. A typical statement would be, "Why doesn't GEO have antimatter warheads, they would be so easy to make." Mike Z In a message dated Mon, 12 Feb 2001 3:32:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, Wagner utiel writes: << You are correct in many aspects but I am talking about some basic research without an immediate technological perspective. For example, I work with theoretical physics and with mathematics-physics and I don't need supercomputers because I work in exact calculus and no simulation. Then for my research I don't need much money. Many others as me can work in the fundamentals aspects of science without the need of much money and our work can be used in some technological research in the future. In physics for example the breakthrough was done by new theories and no experimental research. When Maxwell established the eletromagnetism theory nobody knew how to use his theory in some pratical way, but some years after all the industrial revolution with the use of eletricity was based in his theory. And in the economic aspect the Japan and the U.S.A, for example, with its corporations has many researches working in basic science. I knew people in the Microsoft with work in Statistical Mechanics without some pratical application in mind. If your corporation is in a competitive market you will have to spend much money in basic research or your company will fall. There is no technological advance without basic research and in general this type of research don't use much money as you think. Wagner PS: Please i'm not saying that i don't like the BP setting. What I said is that in the point of view of a physics or engineer the Hard Science of BP is wonderfull in the biological perspective. But, in my opnion the BP is the only true "Scientific RPG" and I like this. Ml10@aol.com wrote: > Your forgetting 1 little thing: economics. > Research costs money. Transforming research > into an actual product costs even more money. > > As our understanding of the world increases, > the number of different fields to research > increases as well. As our understanding of a > particular field increases, it requires more > training for a new scientist to enter that > field. Also, the cost for new breakthroughs > increases as well as more specialized and > expensive equipment is needed. > > However, there is still a finite amount of > money to spend on the research. > > Then there is the engineering required to > transform pure science into an actual > device. Many dreamers and futurists simply > don't understand that there are many > problems that have to be dealt with before > something will work in the field. > > Take for example the Power PC chip that > was developed by Motorola. It is a fast > chip that uses little power and gives off > little heat. Seems like the perfect chip to > use in cheap satelite systems. However, its > design crossed a threshold and the chip is > very vunerable to various high energy particles > that are found outside the lower atmosphere. > > Another example is energy weapons. We have > had the techology since the 1970's to > develope a working stun gun. But due to > economic reasons, a serious attempt to > build one didn't start until 2 years ago. > > Another example is the laser printer. The > laser printer was developed in the 1969, > yet it did not see wide spread use until the > 1990's. > > To relate more to Blue Planet: > The Blight. It was extremely disruptive to > the scientific community. Not only did it drain > monies away from other areas of research, it > set back non-Blight related research by several > generations. With the depopulation of Earth > and resources drawn away to combat the Blight, > it would became extremely difficult to develope > the next generation of researchers. This would > have a domino effect on later generations as well. > While the actual knowledge would not be lost, > the ability to comprehend it would be. Without > being able to comprehend it, it is impossible to > make the next breakthrough. > > Look at AI research. A few months ago on > Slashdot, there was an interview with a > leading AI researcher (I forget his name). > One of the questions was if AI developement > could be placed in the realm of Open Source. > (after all it worked for Linux). The researcher > stated quite bluntly that nothing would be > gained by placing it into the Open Source > world as the knowledge needed to do any real > work on it was extremely specialized and > difficult to come by. It wasn't something > that you could learn by reading a book on > the subject, a teacher was needed. > > BTW, many AI reserches have been saying that > true AI is only 10 years away. Of course, > they have been saying that for the last 30 > years. There has been considerable debate > over the last 30 years as to if true AI is > even possible. > > Given the Blight and general economic > considerations, I would say that BP science > is a fairly good guess at were we would be. > > Mike Z > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:41 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Rumor Control Hi all, In the never ending quest to make my life as a GM as easy as possible, I've added a new section to my web page called rumor control. It is inspired by the section in the MG on Aboriginal rumors, the Shadowland BBS notes that were in many Shadowrun books as well as some recent posts on this list. Basically it is a place that I will be placing rumors that my players can read. Some will be true, some won't. As rumors are basically independent of reality, they could be used by any GM. So I invite everyone to post any weird Blue Planet thoughts they have on the site. (just keep it clean) The URL is : http://www.io.com/~tippy/blue_planet Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Napoleon48@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:44 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question I'm about to have a similiar player-he whined about the lack of Quantum computers. He also seems to think Hacking is Omnipotent(Every modern RPG that includes him involves computer fraud...) So I have a question-what about hacking in Blue Planet? Does Fluid Mechanics talk about it? How powerful should\could it be? And on the previous note-what do I tell players who seem to think that all these new shiny techologies will be around?(Quantum computing, anti-matter, etc) I've just been saying "A 75 year long dark age..." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:40 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > What I call Genetic Determinism is in the meaning of the old mechanics determinism (classical > view of the world): if you knew the initial state of your system, and have the correct equations, > you will know exactly the future of this state. I don't know if in the future we will observe that > the DNA manipulation is more probabilistic than deterministic. In the quantum scale you will have > many possible futures. In the case of DNA manipulation you can have the same. You can make a > little manipulation and the some manipulation can have many possible consequences. In the BP this > is not true. All the genetic manipulation is deterministic and you will always know exactly the > results. I doubt that's entirely true...but the scientists of 2199 know an awful lot more about practical genetic engineering, and how changes to DNA affect the resulting organism, so it's not as hit-and-miss as it is currently. > And about a huge breakthroughs in physics wait some years and you will see. The physics of > elementaries particles will have a great revision. The use of a more complex concept of symmetry > will lead us a new physics. The main problem is that the physics before 1900 has the most solid > theoretical structure in all the science with the Newton's mechanics and the Maxwell' s magnetism. > Then in the XX came the Quantum physics and the General Relativity that made a revolution the > physics. Now after 100 years we know that these theories are not fundamental, and a new theory > will merge. I don't know if this new theory will make a revolution as the Quantum mechanics or > relativity done in the classical view of the world, but many new concepts will merge. Erm. It would be nice to have a Grand Unified Theory of Absolutely Everything, but saying it's *definitely* going to be developed in the next few years strikes me as being hubris. > About the physics in the BP I think that in 2199 we will have sensors that will detect all the > life forms, mineral forms and make a completely topological map of the Poseidon's oceans. There > will not have secrets in the ocean. We will can detect all the non-natural structure of > non-natural metal in the more deep ocean. I can ask to some experimental researcher here in the > university for a more conclusive point of view, but i think that today we can easily verify if the > Long John is natural or artificial. !?! Long John is an alien substance not found on Earth. I really don't see how you can determine is something is artificial or natural if you've nothing to compare it too. >We can study the ground state energy, we can study the > orbital-spin interactions and compare with the Poseidon natural magnetic field, etc. I still don't see how that would help distinguish between something that forms naturally on Poseidon and something that was artificially created on Poseidon. >And the last: > its is not possible to have a natural wormhole like wormhole in the BP settings. In the > macroscopic scale we will need a artificial form of matter called Exotic matter to make the > wormhole stable in the macroscopic scale and with litte tidal forces or radiation. The Creators presumably know a hell of a lot more science that humans do. Just because our models of physics says the wormhole can't exist doesn't mean that they can't build one. > Wagner Gar http://www.irishgaming.com/warpcon http://chrysanthemumRoad.tripod.com - L5R fansite http://www.commcore.f2s.com/oceanview - Blue Planet fansite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:01 PM To: 'list, blue planet' Subject: [FWd] Re: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - ATTN: Important > -----Original Message----- > From: "Shannon Wiley" > To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com > Subject: Re: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - ATTN: Important > > > > Sir Charles said: > > > > This should read 'nictitating'. While some gaming sites > > > etc will say > > > > 'nictating', university sites and people with PhD's say > > > 'nictitating'. > > > I'm more > > > > inclined towards the latter *chuckles* Thanks. > > > > Hrm. First: Doesn't Jeff -have- a Ph.D. in Marine Biology? > > > > Klaatu...Barada...Nict- > > > > Second: *ROFL* > Thanks for that, Kai. > > > > Kai Poh > > > Malaysian Lagomorph > > > > > > > >************************************************************* > ************** > >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > >with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:05 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > -----Original Message----- > From: Napoleon48@aol.com [mailto:Napoleon48@aol.com] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > > I'm about to have a similiar player-he whined about the lack > of Quantum computers. > What, prey tell, is a "Quantum computer"? > He also seems to think Hacking is Omnipotent(Every > modern RPG that includes him involves computer fraud...) > So I have a question-what about hacking in Blue Planet? Does > Fluid Mechanics talk about it? How powerful should\could it be? > Our GM, Jay Moore, had written up some interesting hacking rules for an adventure he concocted. With a little persuasion (I believe he's on this list) we might prevail upon him to post them. > And on the previous note-what do I tell players who seem to > think that all these new shiny techologies will be around?(Quantum > computing, anti-matter, etc) I've just been saying "A 75 year > long dark age..." > Show them the time line. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wil [dreamweaver@keyway.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:08 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question Re: players assuming certain tech is available. Just point them to the food pills, antigrav belts, flying cars, colonies on the moon and Mars, and atomic-powered aircraft we have around nowadays. Those things were predicted for the year 2000 50 years ago...what makes the players think that our predictions for future technology are any more accurate! "The Batmobile had a morals clause? He kept a young boy in a cave!" - Drew Carey Dreams of Flesh & Spirit: http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/tribe8/ The Datacore: http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/jovianchronicles/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 6:23 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport ----- Original Message ----- From: "David R. Crowell" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 1:22 PM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport <> You bet. You can also outfit your jumpcraft with semi-portable hydrogen crackers and auxiliary fuel tanks. But in general, flying from one end of the archipelago to the other shouldn't be as easy as a New York-to-Hawaii commercial flight in a 747. The pilot will have to know where the best refueling stops are to plan an efficient flight plan. <> Oh sure. Add as many as you like. :) Greg FFG *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:18 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Benage To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport > > < un-named-dot-of-rock-in-a-big-ocean islands?>> > > You bet. You can also outfit your jumpcraft with semi-portable > hydrogen crackers and auxiliary fuel tanks. But in general, flying > from one end of the archipelago to the other shouldn't be as easy as a > New York-to-Hawaii commercial flight in a 747. The pilot will have to > know where the best refueling stops are to plan an efficient flight > plan. Glad to hear it, I want things to be remote but accessable. Flight planning will definitely be something my players will have to learn to do. Remote fuel depots also add the nifty plot hook of having the fuel be not there for what ever reason. Or a Posiedon version of the old shipbreaker's trick of false light house beacons, a false fuel beacon could be used to lure people to a remote spot for all sorts of purposes.... > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > I'm about to have a similiar player-he whined about the lack of Quantum > computers. He also seems to think Hacking is Omnipotent(Every modern RPG that > includes him involves computer fraud...) > So I have a question-what about hacking in Blue Planet? Does Fluid Mechanics > talk about it? How powerful should\could it be? Remind him that defensive technology generally keeps pace with offensive technology... I don't think hacking should be any more powerful than it is today, which is not as much as Hollywood and media hype would have us believe. > > And on the previous note-what do I tell players who seem to think that all > these new shiny techologies will be around?(Quantum computing, anti-matter, > etc) I've just been saying "A 75 year long dark age..." 75 year dark age is a good answer. That and maybe technology was developed in different fdirections than he would have liked. There are plenty of viable technologies that have never been exploited for political, social, or ethical reasons. Vastly more fuel efficient cars, Wankel engines, Beta tapes instead of VHS, genitically modified food, animal-human organ transplants.... We don't even have a colony on the Moon yet, never mind Mars. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:41 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport > -----Original Message----- > From: David R. Crowell [mailto:gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg Benage > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport > > < > un-named-dot-of-rock-in-a-big-ocean islands?>> > > > > You bet. You can also outfit your jumpcraft with semi-portable > > hydrogen crackers and auxiliary fuel tanks. But in general, flying > > plan. > > Glad to hear it, I want things to be remote but accessable. > Flight planning will definitely be something my players > There are several tables in Access Denied that we intended to be used for this purpose including a distance chart of mileage between settlements and an endurance chart for various vehicles. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:18 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Heivilin, Jim" Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:41:13 -0600 There are several tables in Access Denied that we intended to be used for this purpose including a distance chart of mileage between settlements and an endurance chart for various vehicles. ================================== Thanks. I had forgotten about those tables. If I remember correctly, though, they do not include info for deep draft freighters. But then, would deep draft ships be used on Poseidon? Would they use shallower drafts ship that did not require as much dredging and other harbor infrastructure? Or, would the deep draft ships stay offshore and lighter their cargoes? At some point, it would be nice to have stats for large ships. Jeb _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:33 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport > There are several tables in Access Denied that we intended to be used for > this purpose including a distance chart of mileage between settlements and > an endurance chart for various vehicles. > > Jim > Those are exactly what prompted my original inquiry. There are some places you just don't seem to be able to reach with the transport available. Logically there must be some sort of long hauler making the runs. I figured surface ships of some sort, probably on the small side due to the economics of either shipping them from Earth or building them with Posiedon's still developing industrial base. I am curious as to what form the long haulers take, clipper-ships and schooners, tramp steamers, or long range, large payload cargo aircraft like a C-130 are possibilities that have crossed my mind. To keep the Frontier feel, any long range transport should be uncomfortable, slow or both! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 6:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > What I call Genetic Determinism is in the meaning of the old > mechanics determinism (classical >view of the world): if you knew the initial state of your system, and >have the correct equations, >you will know exactly the future of this state. In that sense, "genetic determinism" does not exist in Blue Planet, or things like Long John would be a lot less important. > About the physics in the BP I think that in 2199 we will have sensors > that will detect all the >life forms, mineral forms and make a completely topological map of the >Poseidon's oceans. There >will not have secrets in the ocean. I completely disagree. There is no precedent or expectation for "life sensors" or some form of Star Trek-esque "easy scan" to get all the information you need on a planet established in the first 5 minutes of the show. > We will can detect all the non-natural structure of >non-natural metal in the more deep ocean. I can ask to some experimental >researcher here in the >university for a more conclusive point of view, but i think that today we >can easily verify if the >Long John is natural or artificial. We can study the ground state energy, >we can study the >orbital-spin interactions and compare with the Poseidon natural magnetic >field, etc. *spoilers* Actually, no. You can look for signs of processing, but on the molecular level of construction that was used to make Long John, the only way to prove whether it is artificial or not is to see if it can form in nature. Since humanity hasn't even figured out what LJ _is_, that's an unlikely experiment. *spoilers* >And the last: >its is not possible to have a natural wormhole like wormhole in the BP >settings. In the >macroscopic scale we will need a artificial form of matter called Exotic >matter to make the >wormhole stable in the macroscopic scale and with litte tidal forces or >radiation. But it does have tidal forces, that's how it was found. I assumed that the wormhole is the body that had perturbed the orbits of a lot of outer planets, leading people to think there was another planet out there. > But remember the BP is a game and in a science fiction game if we > will use the correct laws of >physics the game will be very limited. But... Blue Planet _does_ use remarkably real physics. The wormhole is the only extended "gimme" and even that is completely off-the-wall. >PS: we will have AI in the 2199. You are a very optimistic man, you know that? :) - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion "How much humiliation can four people and a penguin take?" -Ninku the Movie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:03 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - premise >I don't see why it hurts the core concept. The LUG Star Trek TNG game, >for example, has a core narrative but doesn't stop you from playing a >different setting. (Although I suspect the DS9 game doesn't have one.) It depends on how it is worked out. I haven't read the ST books, but I always feel constricted in games that try to hard to give me some sort of "default game." Like Tribe 8. I really like the setting, but it drives me batty that the basic book assumes that you will want to play a Fallen, and doesn't really seem to acknowledge other options. Later supplements expanded that, but the initial offering was kind of focused. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion "How much humiliation can four people and a penguin take?" -Ninku the Movie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:06 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question >So I have a question-what about hacking in Blue Planet? Does Fluid Mechanics >talk about it? How powerful should\could it be? Computers really just move to fast and are too complicated (especially in BP) for a human to just hack right into. Hell, they're too complicated to even program, which is why you end up with a situation like in Trinity, where you have software designed to be a user-friendly interface that does it for you. Fluid Mechanics does have information on computers and some hacking stuff, but not a whole lot. I would have liked a bit more on the latter, myself. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion "How much humiliation can four people and a penguin take?" -Ninku the Movie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@SoftHome.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:09 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > > I'm about to have a similiar player-he whined about the lack > > of Quantum computers. > > >What, prey tell, is a "Quantum computer"? I'm assuming he's talking about computers on a scale where it uses quantum dots instead of electrons, effectively. Really damn small, really damn hard to keep out interference. You could always argue that the reason BP uses DNA computers instead of quantum ones is simply convenience and expense compared to power. The DNA machines do what is needed cheaper and easier than the quantum ones, if not necessarily better. >Our GM, Jay Moore, had written up some interesting hacking rules for an >adventure he concocted. With a little persuasion (I believe he's on this >list) we might prevail upon him to post them. I would definitely appreciate that. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion "How much humiliation can four people and a penguin take?" -Ninku the Movie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 7:26 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > > > I'm about to have a similiar player-he whined about the lack > > > of Quantum computers. > > > > >What, prey tell, is a "Quantum computer"? > > I'm assuming he's talking about computers on a scale where it uses quantum > dots instead of electrons, effectively. Really damn small, really damn hard > to keep out interference. Not quite. As far as my dodgy understanding goes, quantum computing is basically parallel processing accross alternate dimensions. You ask your computer to work out a problem, and it shares information with all the "shadows" of itself across the multiverse. This is real science, and convinces me that real scientists are far wierder than most mad scientists. If that plot was on Star Trek, people would laugh. This universe scares me. http://www.qubit.org/QuantumComputationFAQ.html is a good starting point. I once tried asking a friend of mine who knows physics about quantum computing, but I had to stop him after a few seconds, 'cos my head started hurting. (I once showed him Blue Planet, and he enthused about the wormhole and how easy it would be to make if you threaded a black hole with a superstring or something.) > You could always argue that the reason BP uses DNA computers instead of > quantum ones is simply convenience and expense compared to power. The DNA > machines do what is needed cheaper and easier than the quantum ones, if not > necessarily better. From what I can tell, they're not any more powerful than normal computers, except for any problem which can be broken down into lots of small easy similar problems. So they're not great for AIs, but infinitely kick-ass as breaking encryptions. > - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 Gar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:34 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Rumor Control RE: That is officially awesome. Wish I'd thought of that... -- ChrisTheS > > Basically it is a place that I will be placing rumors > that my players can read. Some will be true, some won't. > > As rumors are basically independent of reality, they > could be used by any GM. So I invite everyone to post > any weird Blue Planet thoughts they have on the site. > (just keep it clean) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:47 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP spoiler This message discusses ----- Original Message ----- From: Kintaro Oe To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > *spoilers* > > >And the last: > >its is not possible to have a natural wormhole like wormhole in the BP > >settings. In the > >macroscopic scale we will need a artificial form of matter called Exotic > >matter to make the > >wormhole stable in the macroscopic scale and with litte tidal forces or > >radiation. > > But it does have tidal forces, that's how it was found. I assumed that the > wormhole is the body that had perturbed the orbits of a lot of outer > planets, leading people to think there was another planet out there. > > > But remember the BP is a game and in a science fiction game if we > > will use the correct laws of > >physics the game will be very limited. > > But... Blue Planet _does_ use remarkably real physics. The wormhole is the > only extended "gimme" and even that is completely off-the-wall. There is a possibility hinted at in the background that the Earth-Posiedon wormhole is not naturally occurring at all but an artificial construct. I won't say who might have built it or why, but those who have read the MG should be able to make a good guess at who, if not why. Think of the wormhole as being like TMA-1 from that Kubrick/Clarke film back in the 70's. (Sorry for being so cryptic about this but it touches on one of the central Mysteries of BP, and I don't want to spoil anything for those who have not read the MG) Besides I like being cryptic every now and then. --dave> > - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 > the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion > > "How much humiliation can four people and a penguin take?" > -Ninku the Movie > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:02 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > > > > I'm about to have a similiar player-he whined about the lack > > > > of Quantum computers. > > > > > > >What, prey tell, is a "Quantum computer"? > > As I understand it, and more physics oriented people can correct me here, on a quantum level a particle can be positive, negative, or both simultaneously. Computers operating on this level can take advantage of this by being trinary, instead of binary. Sorta. Such computers are significantly more efficient because instead of "bits" with 2 states, you have "Q-bits" with 3 states. I read an article recently that scientists have actually produced a functioning quantum computer already. It had the processing power of a pocket calculator, but the potential is there to create Palm Pilots with the computing power of a Cray Super computer. How long that will take is open to debate however > > I'm assuming he's talking about computers on a scale where it uses > quantum > > dots instead of electrons, effectively. Really damn small, really > damn > hard > > to keep out interference. > > Not quite. As far as my dodgy understanding goes, quantum computing > is > basically parallel processing accross alternate dimensions. You ask > your > computer to work out a problem, and it shares information with all > the > "shadows" of itself across the multiverse. > > This is real science, and convinces me that real scientists are far > wierder > than most mad scientists. If that plot was on Star Trek, people would > laugh. > This universe scares me. > > http://www.qubit.org/QuantumComputationFAQ.html is a good starting > point. > > I once tried asking a friend of mine who knows physics about quantum > computing, but I had to stop him after a few seconds, 'cos my head > started > hurting. (I once showed him Blue Planet, and he enthused about the > wormhole > and how easy it would be to make if you threaded a black hole with a > superstring or something.) > > > You could always argue that the reason BP uses DNA computers > instead of > > quantum ones is simply convenience and expense compared to power. > The DNA > > machines do what is needed cheaper and easier than the quantum > ones, if > not > > necessarily better. > > From what I can tell, they're not any more powerful than normal > computers, > except for any problem which can be broken down into lots of small > easy > similar problems. So they're not great for AIs, but infinitely > kick-ass as > breaking encryptions. > > > - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - > ICQ# > 24193592 > > Gar > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [FWd] Re: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - ATTN: Important > > > > This should read 'nictitating'. While some gaming sites > > > etc will say > > > > 'nictating', university sites and people with PhD's say > > > 'nictitating'. > > > I'm more > > > > inclined towards the latter *chuckles* Thanks. > > > > Hrm. First: Doesn't Jeff -have- a Ph.D. in Marine Biology? I'm not saying none of them do ;) Just that it's a typo from what I've looked at, and what I've looked at have been amateur gaming sites, and university sites dealing with biology and such ;) I wouldn't be surprised to know that about Jeff, though... > > > Klaatu...Barada...Nict- > > > > Second: *ROFL* > Thanks for that, Kai. You guys are messed up, you know that? Just plain messed. --Charles *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tom Barnes [twb3@primary.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 11:17 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport I always thought that Wing-in-Ground-Effect aircraft, or Ekranoplanes or "Caspian Sea Monsters" would be good candidates for long-distance transport on Poseidon; at least after the economy got big enough to make them worth building. Of course, I haven't seen FluMech yet, so ... Tom *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.