From: Konstantinos Rentas [mitsosoftheelves@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 2:13 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hi! Thanks. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 1:32 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Nanotech This may've gone through here already, but what's the state of nanotech in Blue Planet? --Charles *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:05 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question >>What, prey tell, is a "Quantum computer"? A Quantum Computer uses states of particles to encode information. More significantly, they can use interference of states to make very simple calculations. The sum effect of which is that one particle can, in one 'computation', do the equivalent of thousands or more computations at once. It's only applicable to certain classes of computation, but this could be used for code breaking, routing, and other very useful endeavors. The downside is the precision needed, and the need to isolate the system from _any_ outside interference. But very simply quantum computer-like systems have been demonstrated in labs. -=Will _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Leif Magnar Kjønnøy [leifmk@pvv.ntnu.no] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:32 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, William Timmins wrote: > >>What, prey tell, is a "Quantum computer"? > > A Quantum Computer uses states of particles to encode information. More > significantly, they can use interference of states to make very simple > calculations. That's the serious kind. Then we have the more speculative sort (based on the many-worlds interpretation) which can be used to find the solution to any problem where you can *check* the solution. The idea is to pick a possible solution at random, check it, and if it is incorrect, destroy the universe. Thus ensuring that all surviving universes are ones where the correct solution was selected. A few non-trivial problems remain with implementation. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wagner utiel [utiel@df.ufscar.br] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:52 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question I talked with a guy in the last encounter in Statistical Mechanics in Triest, Italy, and he is working in the are of quantum computer programming. The major problem is how to create programs to a quantum computer. In a normal computer we have only a binary code (two states) of 0 an 1, yes and no, up and down, etc... But a quantum state can have many possibilities. We can create a quantum computer where each state has N possibilities to exist. We will can process more informations. We have now technology to create a quantum computer and some experimental exist. About the wormholes there are some confusion here. We can have two principal types of wormholes: one associated with a black hole, our more precisely with one black hole and one white hole, and the other associated with a quantum flutuaction in a Planck scale in the beginning of the universe. This last wormhole exist only in a microscopic scale and is not stable. In the physics point o view the wormhole associated with the black hole is more a mathematical solution of the Einstein's equation then a reality. This occur because this solution is given in an imaginary time (analyitical continuation) and our space-time has a real time. Then the only scientific possibility is that the wormhole in BP was created by some more advanced technology. Now with our physics model we can create a mascroscopic worhmole like of the BP but we need to postulate the existence of an EXOTIC MATTER and we know its properties but we don't know how to produce it. Wagner Troy Gustavel wrote: > > As I understand it, and more physics oriented people can correct me > here, on a quantum level a particle can be positive, negative, or both > simultaneously. Computers operating on this level can take advantage of > this by being trinary, instead of binary. Sorta. Such computers are > significantly more efficient because instead of "bits" with 2 states, > you have "Q-bits" with 3 states. > > I read an article recently that scientists have actually produced a > functioning quantum computer already. It had the processing power of a > pocket calculator, but the potential is there to create Palm Pilots > with the computing power of a Cray Super computer. > > How long that will take is open to debate however > > > > I'm assuming he's talking about computers on a scale where it uses > > quantum > > > dots instead of electrons, effectively. Really damn small, really > > damn > > hard > > > to keep out interference. > > > > Not quite. As far as my dodgy understanding goes, quantum computing > > is > > basically parallel processing accross alternate dimensions. You ask > > your > > computer to work out a problem, and it shares information with all > > the > > "shadows" of itself across the multiverse. > > > > This is real science, and convinces me that real scientists are far > > wierder > > than most mad scientists. If that plot was on Star Trek, people would > > laugh. > > This universe scares me. > > > > http://www.qubit.org/QuantumComputationFAQ.html is a good starting > > point. > > > > I once tried asking a friend of mine who knows physics about quantum > > computing, but I had to stop him after a few seconds, 'cos my head > > started > > hurting. (I once showed him Blue Planet, and he enthused about the > > wormhole > > and how easy it would be to make if you threaded a black hole with a > > superstring or something.) > > > > > You could always argue that the reason BP uses DNA computers > > instead of > > > quantum ones is simply convenience and expense compared to power. > > The DNA > > > machines do what is needed cheaper and easier than the quantum > > ones, if > > not > > > necessarily better. > > > > From what I can tell, they're not any more powerful than normal > > computers, > > except for any problem which can be broken down into lots of small > > easy > > similar problems. So they're not great for AIs, but infinitely > > kick-ass as > > breaking encryptions. > > > > > - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - > > ICQ# > > 24193592 > > > > Gar > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > > > ===== > Troy Gustavel > 5825 Bolender Rd. > Akron, OH 44319 > (330)882 5468 > Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com > > "Once upon a midnight dreary..." > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stephan Aspridis [Anubis.5@web.de] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:12 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > From what I can tell, they're not any more powerful than normal computers, > except for any problem which can be broken down into lots of small easy > similar problems. So they're not great for AIs, but infinitely kick-ass as > breaking encryptions. > You bet. With a normal computer, if you got "n" bits, there are 2^n states they can assume. With a quantum computer and "n" qubits, you got 2^n states _at once_. cya Stephan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:02 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport ----Original Message Follows---- From: "David R. Crowell" Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:33:20 -0500 There are some places you just don't seem to be able to reach with the transport available. Logically there must be some sort of long hauler making the runs. I figured surface ships of some sort, probably on the small side due to the economics of either shipping them from Earth or building them with Posiedon's still developing industrial base. I am curious as to what form the long haulers take, clipper-ships and schooners, tramp steamers, or long range, large payload cargo aircraft like a C-130 are possibilities that have crossed my mind. To keep the Frontier feel, any long range transport should be uncomfortable, slow or both! =================================== D'oh. I just remembered that FM includes info on the Rappahannock a steam driven paddlewheeler built by the initial settlers and used extensively prior to recontact. So that's one large payload freighter for inter-island transport. FM also includes information on the ground effect planes that Tom mentioned. If I recall, they are used fairly extensively, especially by Dyfedd, but are limited by uneven ground and rough seas. As described, though, their payloads are still less than that of a 747 cargo jet. Jeb _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:31 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > About the physics in the BP I think that in 2199 we will have sensors > >that will detect all the >life forms, mineral forms and make a completely >topological map of >the >Poseidon's oceans. There >will not have secrets in the ocean. ========================= I agree with Kintaro that there is no suggestion in BP that there will be some form of Star Trek type "easy scan" to get all the information you need on a planet in the first 5 minutes after entering orbit. As someone else mentioned, the Blight disrupted most scientific and technological development not related to fighting the Blight and its related effects. A comprehensive survey of Poseidon will depend on how much time and money is devoted to the issue. I'm not clear how much resources the GEO has dedicated to a geodetic survey of Poseidon. Also, while satellites and aerial surveys greatly speed up the survey process, I am unclear on the satellite coverage of Poseidon (one of the few issues not addressed in FM) (Sensor bouys are also becoming an important tool for monitoring ocean and coastal processes). For an idea of the state of our current remote sensing and mapping technologies check out: http://www.noaa.gov/charts.html http://www.noaa.gov/satellites.html http://www.noaa.gov/ocean.html http://www.beg.utexas.edu/mainweb/geolinks01.htm http://www.glo.state.tx.us/oilspill/tabs.html --------------------- >PS: we will have AI in the 2199. ===================== First we'll have to develop a defnition for what determines "AI." Jeb _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:22 AM To: Blue Planet List (E-mail) Subject: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Rumor Control -----Original Message----- From: "Poh Tun Kai" To: Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Rumor Control Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:56:50 -0500 > > RE: That is officially awesome. Wish I'd thought of that... > > -- ChrisTheS > > > > Basically it is a place that I will be placing rumors > > that my players can read. Some will be true, some won't. Sounds a bit like the Colonial News on the old Biohazard Games BP site...except any of these rumors could be false while others are true. Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:42 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP >Thank you for your answer No problem. >> Cat/Aquaform crossbreeding > > What I call Genetic Determinism . All the genetic manipulation is deterministic >and you will always know exactly the results. That's not really what I meant when I said "it's not been done" - what I really meant was: in game, scientists would know what would happen if you crossbred. Out of game, we players don't know, because the writers haven't specifiedyet; when they, or we as GMs, decide, we can post it here. I was just coming up with a few likely possibilities. >But like I wrote in the past message I'm not a genetic researcher and maybe I don't >understand the premisse. Hey - I'm doing a PhD in Biochemistry, and I can't even to pretend to know how the scientists would do half the biological stuff they do; it's a couple of hundred years over my head. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:47 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP >> I can ask to some experimental >researcher here in the >> university for a more conclusive point of view, but i think that today we >can easily verify if the >> Long John is natural or artificial. > >!?! >Long John is an alien substance not found on Earth. I really don't see how >you can determine is something is artificial or natural if you've nothing to >compare it too. Well - one of the points about LJ is that it is *way* ahead of just about everything chemical that Humans can do in 2199. We don't know how it was made, or even really how it does what it does (except for some guesses about crystal lattices and interstices, and adhesion and chemical bond stress.) Lots of theories, and lots of research; little understanding yet. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:48 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Nanotech ********** SPOILER *********** >This may've gone through here already, but what's the state of nanotech in Blue >Planet? > >--Charles Read the "Alien Legacy" section of the MG. Humans don't have any working nanotech as yet (unless you count the tailored retroviruses used in Genetic therapies, etc.) Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:56 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP >> What I call Genetic Determinism is in the meaning of the old >> mechanics determinism (classical >>view of the world): if you knew the initial state of your system, and >>have the correct equations, >>you will know exactly the future of this state. > >In that sense, "genetic determinism" does not exist in Blue Planet, or >things like Long John would be a lot less important. Or - we know the starting point, and we know what we would have to to do to reach the given end-state, but the process is beyond or reach for technical reasons. Also - with Quantum indeterminism and Heisenberg and all that physics stuff - how can we *ever* know the starting-point satisfactorily? Especially when dealoing with molecule-sized events (like genetics). >> About the physics in the BP I think that in 2199 we will have sensors >> that will detect all the >>life forms, mineral forms and make a completely topological map of the >>Poseidon's oceans. There >>will not have secrets in the ocean. > >I completely disagree. There is no precedent or expectation for "life >sensors" or some form of Star Trek-esque "easy scan" to get all the >information you need on a planet established in the first 5 minutes of the >show. Definitely. Of course, now that the LJ rush is well underway - there are probably a lot of satellites looking for potential LJ caches all over Poseidon; but that it all they'll be looking for. Why bother looking for anything else yet? Also - as several people have also pointed out, almost all science, except "get rid of the nasty blight" research, will have been retarded by a substantial amount. >>PS: we will have AI in the 2199. As I said before (*******Spoiler Warning********) Read the Dyffedd section of the MG. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:28 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > Not quite. As far as my dodgy understanding goes, quantum computing is > basically parallel processing accross alternate dimensions. You ask your > computer to work out a problem, and it shares information with all the > "shadows" of itself across the multiverse. I'm kind of skeptical as to how far this explanation or metaphor goes, considering that proving the existance of an alternate dimension (as in the sense of another universe) is somewhat paradoxical and extreme. I'll have to check out that article you linked to. > From what I can tell, they're not any more powerful than normal computers, > except for any problem which can be broken down into lots of small easy > similar problems. So they're not great for AIs, but infinitely kick-ass as > breaking encryptions. The kind of quantum computers that I was talking about can provide a great deal of computing power in a very small package, considering that it's 1 particle for 1 bit. Not to mention you get to mess around with quantum states and don't have to worry about heat interference caused by circuits in a modern board. Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 Opinionated reviewer extraordinaire *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: blaster219 [blaster219@hunter-net.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Couple of Questions Hi there! I'm relatively new to the game so forgive me if these questions seem silly. 1. Can the DR of a weapon be reduced to zero or less when taking into account armour and toughness and if so is it assumed that weapon does no damage at all. 2. Exactly how do you use the surgury skill? 3. How much does it cost to "fill the tank" of vehicles. Is there a price per litre or something? Thanks. -- David Andrews Cole Tucker: "I happen to be mankinds best hope." Preed: "I weep for the species." --Titan AE-- Hunter-Net UK: http://www.hunter-net.co.uk Silverlake Online: http://come.to/silverlake *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wagner utiel [utiel@df.ufscar.br] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 1:38 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Fantasy Flight Hi all I need an information about the Fantasy Flight sales. Someone bought something from then on-line. I tried but I can acess the order page. I don't found the BP suplements in the Amazon and here in Brazil is very difficult to find these suplements. Wagner *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Fantasy Flight ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wagner utiel" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:38 AM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Fantasy Flight > Hi all > > I need an information about the Fantasy Flight sales. Someone bought > something from then on-line. I tried but I can acess the order page. I > don't found the BP suplements in the Amazon and here in Brazil is very > difficult to find these suplements. Hey Wagner. I believe our online ordering is disabled due to some ISP problems we've suffered. I know the webmaster is hoping to get it back up and running today, but I can't guarantee anything. You can also phone your order, though I know the charges are significant. The number is 651.639.1905. Otherwise, I'll drop you an email and let you know when the e-commerce site is back up. Thanks, Greg FFG *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 2:33 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Thread the Needle (was: Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question) > -----Original Message----- > From: Gareth Hanrahan [mailto:hanrahag@iol.ie] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP-plus a hacking question > > > > I'm about to have a similiar player-he whined about the lack > > > > of Quantum computers. > > >What, prey tell, is a "Quantum computer"? > > > Not quite. As far as my dodgy understanding goes, quantum computing is > basically parallel processing accross alternate dimensions. > You ask your computer to work out a problem, and it shares information > with all the "shadows" of itself across the multiverse. > > I once tried asking a friend of mine who knows physics about quantum > computing, but I had to stop him after a few seconds, 'cos my > head started hurting. (I once showed him Blue Planet, and he enthused > about the wormhole and how easy it would be to make if you threaded a > black hole with a superstring or something.) > Both of these perfectly illustrate the difference between a scientist (what is possible) and an engineer (how do we do it). Ask your friend how he would go about moving that superstring into the black hole. And if you did manage to thread the black hole with the superstring, how would to "place" the destination of the resultant wormhole? Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stephan Aspridis [Anubis.5@web.de] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 2:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > I agree with Kintaro that there is no suggestion in BP that there will be > some form of Star Trek type "easy scan" to get all the > information you need on a planet in the first 5 minutes after entering > orbit. As someone else mentioned, the Blight disrupted most scientific and > technological development not related to fighting the Blight and its related > effects. On a related note... is it just me or are there others who feel that the BP bias toward life-sciences is a bit strong? Granted, we got Long John and the LJ rush towards Poseidon, which is a major plot device (as far as there _is_ any plot per se in BP ;-) ), but IMHO BP is also the best generic Hard SF RPG since 2300AD, so I think the other scientific areas should get more attention. There is, after all, a limit to what can be acomplished by biology - even with Long John. Let me explain: >>>SPOILER<<< I don't have my Moderator's Guide at hand right now, but remembering BP1, it was said that the creators even engineered the wormhole by understanding the principles of life sciences so well. Well, IMO that explanation is somewhere between Star Trek and Cthulhu (which would make an interesting crossover, but I diverge). This is somewhere like saying the "biomolecular ship hulls of Species 8472" (ST) are strong enough to take multi megaton damage without harm. Life/Biology is based on chemical reactions (and some electrical impulses). Anything that messes as fundamentally with the s-t structure of the universe as the wormhole, acts on a) quantum scale with b) extreme energy densities that can only be accomplished by extremly powerful energy generators (Zero Point Energy, Antimatter, what have not - but not biological). So either the creators had some hard tech (in the original sense of the word) around or this is a major bogus regarding (my) suspension of disbelief. I know that BP has the main focus of ecology/biology/genetics on a new frontier, but since it is IMO a very good generic Hard SF game too, it would be a wasted chance not to go into detail regarding the scientific areas _not_ connected to biology. enough rambling ;-)) just my $0.02 Stephan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 5:17 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephan Aspridis" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > >>>SPOILER<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have my Moderator's Guide at hand right now, but remembering BP1, it > was said that the creators even engineered the wormhole by understanding the > principles of life sciences so well. Eh, I certainly don't recall any such suggestion. The wormhole(s) is 100% inorganic. Greg Benage FFG *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:10 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP I don't have my Moderator's Guide at hand right now, but remembering BP1, it was said that the creators even engineered the wormhole by understanding the principles of life sciences so well. Well, IMO that explanation is somewhere between Star Trek and Cthulhu (which would make an interesting crossover, but I diverge). This is somewhere like saying the "biomolecular ship hulls of Species 8472" (ST) are strong enough to take multi megaton damage without harm. Life/Biology is based on chemical reactions (and some electrical impulses). Anything that messes as fundamentally with the s-t structure of the universe as the wormhole, acts on a) quantum scale with b) extreme energy densities that can only be accomplished by extremly powerful energy generators (Zero Point Energy, Antimatter, what have not - but not biological). So either the creators had some hard tech (in the original sense of the word) around or this is a major bogus regarding (my) suspension of disbelief. I know that BP has the main focus of ecology/biology/genetics on a new frontier, but since it is IMO a very good generic Hard SF game too, it would be a wasted chance not to go into detail regarding the scientific areas _not_ connected to biology. Granted that it's hard to imagine how you can tamper with the fundamental fabric of reality by going at things via the biological pathway, given that we're not even close to having a theory in real life about how such things might be done it seems a little silly to say that one explanation is more unbelievable than another - anything explaining the wormhole will be totally fictional. Secondly, there is only one science if you get right down to it, if you know enough, presumably it would be possible to look at biological systems just using the fundamental physical laws, and in that sense, is it really so hard to imagine that some advanced species stole some of the ideas they found in biology and adapted them somehow to make the wormhole, we're talking about principles here, not the wormhole being a living thing..... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 2:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > >> About the physics in the BP I think that in 2199 we will have sensors > >> that will detect all the > >>life forms, mineral forms and make a completely topological map of the > >>Poseidon's oceans. There > >>will not have secrets in the ocean. > > > >I completely disagree. There is no precedent or expectation for "life > >sensors" or some form of Star Trek-esque "easy scan" to get all the > >information you need on a planet established in the first 5 minutes of the > >show. > > Definitely. > Of course, now that the LJ rush is well underway - there are probably a lot of satellites > looking for potential LJ caches all over Poseidon; but that it all they'll be looking for. Why > bother looking for anything else yet? > Also - as several people have also pointed out, almost all science, except "get rid of the nasty > blight" research, will have been retarded by a substantial amount. > I will agree with the dissagreement on this one. We still do not have complete topological and topographical maps of this planet. We know more about the surface of the moon or Mars than we do about the deep oceans on Earth. Given how few people are on Poseidon and for how short a time they have been there, and given how few of them are involved in any sort of research, I think it is a fair guess that Poseidon will have many secrets for a long time to come. Consider too that mapping satelites would most likely have to be shipped from Earth, a prohibitaively expensive project, no-one on Earth would want to fund either their building or their shipping, although IF a satelite that accurately surveys for LJ is developed this would change. Since no-one is quite sure exactly what LJ is or how it is formed I think such satelites are still a ways off. And then there are our friends beneeth the waves, who are probably really good at hiding things they don't want found.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 3:34 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > > >>>SPOILER<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have my Moderator's Guide at hand right now, but remembering > BP1, it > > was said that the creators even engineered the wormhole by > understanding the > > principles of life sciences so well. > > Eh, I certainly don't recall any such suggestion. The wormhole(s) is > 100% inorganic. I think the reference is (p196 of the Mod's Guide) "At the core of the Creator's technological achievements is an organic nanotechnology.....it is the awesome potential of such a technology that has transformed the Creators into the galatic ancestors they have become, by providing them the means to build worlds and open holes in space". I'm guessing that whatever supermachines were used to create the wormhole were built using nanotech, although the paragraph could be interpreted to mean that nanotechnogy was used directly to make the wormhole. > Greg Benage > FFG Gar http://www.irishgaming.com/warpcon http://chrysanthemumRoad.tripod.com - L5R fansite http://www.commcore.f2s.com/oceanview - Blue Planet fansite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Bartek Bezulski [beza@ns1.widzew.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:43 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Cc: mewa@widzew.net Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - pathetic blue planet game hi i have visited the biggest convention in poland last weekend, and have had a game of Blue planet, at first i was very happy that i would play my favourite game, but unfortunately it turned out to be a complete disaster and i must admit that it was the worst game i have ever had. Here are the details: first of all , GM didnt know how to tell a story, he was hopeless (his nickname is BRAJT), he couldn't complete a single sentence and from time to time he was forgeting simple words (like 'killed' for instance) next, GM didnt know the world at all or couldn't imagine what the world should be like. The action took part in Heaven, there was organised Police force (true police, like in modern world), there were plenty of press reporters, global holo tv. In central heaven, there was a leisure park, and we were chasing o 30 meters-tall monkeys i am sure that such game couldn't do any good to BP in Poland, but fortunatelly, 3 of 5 players were my friends and i will be able to fix the damage done by this GM to the game in near future tnx and regards -------------------------------------- Bartek Bezulski beza@widzew.net, beza@gss.abis.lodz.pl -------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: eric baierl [ebaierl@csd.uwm.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:07 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - pathetic blue planet game > first of all , GM didnt know how to tell a story, he was hopeless (his > nickname is BRAJT), he couldn't complete a single sentence and from time > to time he was forgeting simple words (like 'killed' for instance) That kind of sucks. Playing it in english then? > next, GM didnt know the world at all or couldn't imagine what the world > should be like. The action took part in Heaven, there was organised Heaven. Haven? > Police force (true police, like in modern world), there were plenty of > press reporters, global holo tv. In central heaven, there was a leisure Right, so a little artisitci freedom taken there. > park, and we were chasing o 30 meters-tall monkeys Heh. heh. uh. First I read 30 foot monkeys. Bad, but acceptable (large mutant monkeys, odd, but well, not that odd) Then I reread "meters" Yeah. Not quite sure what to say about that. > i am sure that such game couldn't do any good to BP in Poland, but > fortunatelly, 3 of 5 players were my friends and i will be able to fix the > damage done by this GM to the game in near future Well, anyone is doing more for the cause and publicity than I am. eric baierl *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stephan Aspridis [Anubis.5@web.de] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 5:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > > > I don't have my Moderator's Guide at hand right now, but remembering > > BP1, it > > > was said that the creators even engineered the wormhole by > > understanding the > > > principles of life sciences so well. > > > > Eh, I certainly don't recall any such suggestion. The wormhole(s) is > > 100% inorganic. > > I think the reference is (p196 of the Mod's Guide) > "At the core of the Creator's technological achievements is an organic > nanotechnology.....it is the awesome potential of such a technology that has > transformed the Creators into the galatic ancestors they have become, by > providing them the means to build worlds and open holes in space". > > I'm guessing that whatever supermachines were used to create the wormhole > were built using nanotech, although the paragraph could be interpreted to > mean that nanotechnogy was used directly to make the wormhole. > Yes. This was exactly the reference I had in mind (even if I could only remember the BPv1 reference). Sorry, if I misinterpreted it, but it reads like the nanotech was used directly... cya Stephan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Werner [wernerj@swbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 5:03 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport My all-time favorite entries in FluMech? The Voss-Aero GD-91 Rhino ground effect heavy transport, and Jeff's "Flying Monkey" personal GEP. -JasonWerner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Barnes" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long Range Transport > I always thought that Wing-in-Ground-Effect aircraft, or Ekranoplanes or > "Caspian Sea Monsters" would be good candidates for long-distance > transport on Poseidon; at least after the economy got big enough to make > them worth building. Of course, I haven't seen FluMech yet, so ... > > Tom > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wagner utiel [utiel@df.ufscar.br] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 6:10 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP No your opnion is the same as mine. But i think that the biological side of BP is a reflection of the creators of the game whose scientific area is biology. One big mistake that i saw in many message is about the Blight. I don't have the book now but if a remember correct it occurred after 2050. If I believe that in 50 years from now the science in general don't have a evolution in many areas; certanly i had burning my phd in theoretical physics. This because I am a stupid in work in an area of science that in the year 2199 is the same as today. The same for the people with work with AI they are all fools. An important aspect in BP is that it is the best scientific RPG in the market (i am waiting for the GURPS Transhuman). Only a good RPG with a solid scientific background will create this type of discussion about the science in 2119. This is a merit of BP. If I am playing Fading Suns i don't care about scientific precision. But BP is a Hard Science fiction RPG and a good one. Wagner PS: wait some years and all this glamour about genetic engeneering will stop. If the genes are long range correlated then will be very difficult to make these marvelous prevision about genetic manipulation. Stephan Aspridis wrote: > is it just me or are there others who feel that the BP bias toward > life-sciences is a bit strong? Granted, we got Long John and the LJ rush > towards Poseidon, which is a major plot device (as far as there _is_ any > plot per se in BP ;-) ), but IMHO BP is also the best generic Hard SF RPG > since 2300AD, so I think the other scientific areas should get more > attention. There is, after all, a limit to what can be acomplished by > biology - even with Long John. Let me explain: > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 5:31 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > This > because I am a stupid in work in an area of science that in the year 2199 is the > same as today. Except it's not. BP hasn't gone into the intricate details of the changes in particle physics over the next 200 years or so, mainly because it would be impossible and wouldn't affect play any, nor would it appeal to more than a few people. Think about the increased power and miniaturization of computers, understanding the wormhole in _any_ extent and using fusion power. None of those could happen if 2199 was the same as today. > The same for the people with work with AI they are all fools. Um... no. Just because their research has not paid off or achieved an ultimate result doesn't mean they are fools. That's a staggeringly narrow view to take. Research in one specific field always results in diffusion of knowledge into a variety of other subjects. As for the viability of AIs in general, that's a very hazy region. Theoretically there is no reason you can't have a consciousness in a computer, but considering we don't understand how the brain is organized and works, let alone just what consciousness _is_, I'm not holding my breath on the whole AI issue. > PS: wait some years and all this glamour about genetic engeneering will stop. If > the genes are long range correlated then will be very difficult to make these > marvelous prevision about genetic manipulation. You know, I have absolutely no idea what you're saying here. Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 Opinionated reviewer extraordinaire *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 5:38 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP ----- Original Message ----- From: Wagner utiel To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > No your opnion is the same as mine. But i think that the biological side of > BP is a reflection of the creators of the game whose scientific area is > biology. It may also be in part a reflection of the Poseidon setting. One big mistake that i saw in many message is about the Blight. I > don't have the book now but if a remember correct it occurred after 2050. If I > believe that in 50 years from now the science in general don't have a evolution > in many areas; certanly i had burning my phd in theoretical physics. This > because I am a stupid in work in an area of science that in the year 2199 is the > same as today. When the "World of Hurt" RPG and supplements detailing the Asteroid Belt and Colonies in space in the Solar System come out I hope (and expect) to see a greater emphasis given to physics and engineering. They would be very important aspects of that setting. The same for the people with work with AI they are all fools. > An important aspect in BP is that it is the best scientific RPG in the > market (i am waiting for the GURPS Transhuman). Only a good RPG with a solid > scientific background will create this type of discussion about the science in > 2119. This is a merit of BP. If I am playing Fading Suns i don't care about > scientific precision. But BP is a Hard Science fiction RPG and a good one. Very true. And often the points we are discussing and debating are topics that lie at the edge of the currently posible, and often at the edges of current theory as well. It speeks well of the science in the game that we do not pick the basic setting and premise appart as silly or unrealistic. --dave > > Wagner > > PS: wait some years and all this glamour about genetic engeneering will stop. If > the genes are long range correlated then will be very difficult to make these > marvelous prevision about genetic manipulation. Look at the popularity of Cyberpunk, computer hacking based games in the 1990's, or the profusion of Post Apocalypse (usually but not always nuclear war) in the 1980's. BP is a product of it's times as are all created works. > > Stephan Aspridis wrote: > > > is it just me or are there others who feel that the BP bias toward > > life-sciences is a bit strong? Granted, we got Long John and the LJ rush > > towards Poseidon, which is a major plot device (as far as there _is_ any > > plot per se in BP ;-) ), but IMHO BP is also the best generic Hard SF RPG > > since 2300AD, so I think the other scientific areas should get more > > attention. There is, after all, a limit to what can be acomplished by > > biology - even with Long John. Let me explain: > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Shannon Wiley [shannonwiley@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > > >>>SPOILER<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eh, I certainly don't recall any such suggestion. The wormhole(s) is > 100% inorganic. Wormhole(s)? That's just -wrong- Greg. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong. Now I just want to know that much more (whereas before I was content to just accept things and play the game :) You are evil. But, I suppose that's your job :) Shannon shannonwiley@home.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 8:14 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > > > >>>SPOILER<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eh, I certainly don't recall any such suggestion. The wormhole(s) is > > 100% inorganic. > > Wormhole(s)? > That's just -wrong- Greg. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong. > > Now I just want to know that much more (whereas before I was content to just > accept things and play the game :) The running theory: The Creators used wormholes to get from one system to another. A wormhole connects Earth to Poseidon. Therefore, one of the following must be true (assuming wormholes can't be destroyed): 1) The Creators came from the Sol system 2) The Creators came from the Serpentis system 3) There's another wormhole leading to another system (or possibly many undiscovered wormholes, or a whole network of wormholes linking different systems, with Earth and Poseidon being two nodes in this network). I suspect that a second wormhole in the Sol system would have been noticed by now.... (I'm intrigued by the throw-away line in Fluid Mechanics, about the possibility of adapting the Jebel Chelia as an exploration vessel...) > Shannon Gar http://www.irishgaming.com/warpcon http://chrysanthemumRoad.tripod.com - L5R fansite http://www.commcore.f2s.com/oceanview - Blue Planet fansite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Shannon Wiley [shannonwiley@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:26 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sciences in BP > > > > >>>SPOILER<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The running theory: The Creators used wormholes to get from one system to > another. A wormhole connects Earth to Poseidon. Therefore, one of the > following must be true (assuming wormholes can't be destroyed): > 1) The Creators came from the Sol system > 2) The Creators came from the Serpentis system > 3) There's another wormhole leading to another system (or possibly many > undiscovered wormholes, or a whole network of wormholes linking different > systems, with Earth and Poseidon being two nodes in this network). > Gar: I can accept the theory, and the thought had occurred to me. However, having Greg practically confirm that there's at least one more there, well, it's a shock to the system :) > Gar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Mantisking@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:20 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - [OT] YAK - Polaris v3 for free... Hello All; Eric wrote "For those interested (and who speak French as well (o;{{) the version 3 of Polaris is being give out for free. The word files containing ALL of the main book (without the artwork) is downloadable from the web site of one of the guy in charge of writing it: Polaris On-Line : http://www.multimania.com/maierste/index.htm File directly here: http://www.multimania.com/maierste/images/Ed3.zip Also, for the English version, it is *supposed* to stay secret until the GenCo {snip}" Hmmnn. Makes me wish I could read French and understand what I was reading. I'm really interested in this game. From what's been bandied about on this ml about it, Polaris sounds a lot like the anime "Blue Submarine # 6". Speaking of submarines; what does everyone think about the U.S. Navy submarine / Japanese fishing trawler accident? Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.