From: Gobion Rowlands [gobion.rowlands@Gameplay.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:31 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - a little bit of useless BP info a little piece of useless information a degree on poseidon is 150Km, so a minute is 2.5km and a second is 41.67km :o) and the distance guides given on the maps on the whole of blue planet only work at the equator!!! gobion *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gobion Rowlands [gobion.rowlands@Gameplay.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:38 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Corporate Scrip Exchange Rate Jerome Darmont wrote: > Well, it's already on Bleue Plančte, but I'm not against sharing it. Actually, I was just wondering about a dynamic hydroshot league result page. :) Boy, that'd be useless! :) Cool! well email me off list and I will add it as soon as you want :o) As to the Hydroshot league tables - it would be amusing and just because it is useless doesn't mean it shouldn't be done! ;o) gobion *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Shannon Wiley [shannonwiley@home.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:46 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - a little bit of useless BP info Is that latitude or Longitude, Gobion? If it's Longitude, is that the distance in one degree at the equator or the tropics, or somewhere else in between? :) And here's today's random thought, brought to you by a member of the U.S. Real Estate Surveyor's Method of Land Apportionment: I wonder if they have any formal method of land apportionment on Poseidon (For the newcomers, of course) and if that bears any resemblance to the Tier/Range/Township method used by the U.S. or if it more resembles the system they use in England (Which I know isn't the same as the U.S., but I have no clue how it works). Shannon Wiley > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-blue_planet@lists.ient.com > [mailto:owner-blue_planet@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gobion Rowlands > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:31 AM > To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - a little bit of useless BP info > > > a little piece of useless information a degree on poseidon is 150Km, so a > minute is 2.5km and a second is 41.67km > > :o) > > and the distance guides given on the maps on the whole of blue planet only > work at the equator!!! > > gobion *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gobion Rowlands [gobion.rowlands@Gameplay.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:45 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - a little bit of useless BP info Shannon Wiley wrote: > > Is that latitude or Longitude, Gobion? > If it's Longitude, is that the distance in one degree at the > equator or the tropics, or somewhere else in between? :) The degrees in question are the North-South ones at the equator (I am useless at navigation...!) :o) > I wonder if they have any formal method of land apportionment on Poseidon (For the newcomers, of course) and if that bears any resemblance to the Tier/Range/Township method used by the U.S. or if it more resembles the system they use in England (Which I know isn't the same as the U.S., but I have no clue how it works). > Good question - it would certainly make for some interesting adventures :o) gobion *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:04 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Shannon Wiley" Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - a little bit of useless BP info Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:46:23 -0600 And here's today's random thought, brought to you by a member of the U.S. Real Estate Surveyor's Method of Land Apportionment: I wonder if they have any formal method of land apportionment on Poseidon (For the newcomers, of course) and if that bears any resemblance to the Tier/Range/Township method used by the U.S. or if it more resembles the system they use in England (Which I know isn't the same as the U.S., but I have no clue how it works). ================================== This is a good question and potentially a big issue on post-recontact Poseidon. Does First Colony address this issue at all? The BP sourcebooks include several brief comments about land title disputes between native settlers and more recent colonists. But I am not aware of any background information on land titles. There are a couple of fundamental questions that need to be resolved before addressing land titles on Poseidon. First, who grants the land patents? The European/N. American model is that the sovereign grants land titles. In the U.S., this means that the original land title could have been granted by either a state, the U.S. government, Mexico, or one of the original European colonial powers. Who is the sovereign on Poseidon? Post-recontact, it appears to be the GEO. But, the GEO was not around to sponsor the original settlement expedition. Plus, who was the sovereign during the years of the abandonment? I am not aware that these basic government questions have been addressed. What sort of land title promises were made to the members of the original settlement expedition? How were titles apportioned after planetfall? How were titles recorded and transfered prior to recontact? How are title disputes now resolved? I figure that the GEO has a High Commissioner(?) assigned to untangling and resolving land title disputes. Particularly, if you take into account the huge amount of money that there was to be made post-recontact by selling tracts of land in Haven. Some of the Haven natives had the opportunity to make sizable fortunes. What are they doing now? What happened to the title rights of the natives that set out for the more remote islands? I have some notes on this that I may develop into an Undercurrents article. I am interested to hear your thoughts on these issues. Jeb _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:28 AM To: Blue Planet List (list, blue planet) Subject: [FWD] Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - virus question > -----Original Message----- > From: "Poh Tun Kai" > To: > Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - virus question > Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:13:39 -0500 > > > >- how can we destroy viruses in the air and in dead bodies > ? (i know that > > >extreme temperatures can do this, but i will not burn the > whole base > down) > > > > The only other surefire ways are either *strong* chemical > treatment, or > intense irradiation > > with ultraviolet radiation. > > Nuke the site from orbit. > > It's the only way to be sure. > > Kai Poh > Malaysian Lagomorph > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:41 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeb Boyt To: Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:04 PM Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) > > This is a good question and potentially a big issue on post-recontact > Poseidon. Does First Colony address this issue at all? Not that I recall. > > > There are a couple of fundamental questions that need to be resolved before > addressing land titles on Poseidon. First, who grants the land patents? > The European/N. American model is that the sovereign grants land titles. In > the U.S., this means that the original land title could have been granted by > either a state, the U.S. government, Mexico, or one of the original European > colonial powers. > > Who is the sovereign on Poseidon? Post-recontact, it appears to be the GEO. > But, the GEO was not around to sponsor the original settlement expedition. > Plus, who was the sovereign during the years of the abandonment? I am not > aware that these basic government questions have been addressed. Sovereignty depends on whom you ask. I am sure that many of the Natives would claim that they are the sovereign power and GEO Incorp etc have no title or rights to Poseidon. In Earth courts I would guess that it is considered a GEO-protectorate and GEO is sovereign, Incorp holdings are likely sovereign territory in the same way that the grounds of diplomatic embassies on Earth are considered to be soveriegn territory of the embassy's home country, not the country within whose borders the embassy is located. > > What sort of land title promises were made to the members of the original > settlement expedition? How were titles apportioned after planetfall? How > were titles recorded and transfered prior to recontact? How are title > disputes now resolved? I figure that the GEO has a High Commissioner(?) > assigned to untangling and resolving land title disputes. I would expect that more than a little bit of Wild West landgrabbing and claim jumping takes place. Especially as the proper authority for granting land title is not at all clear. "Yes, I see you have a deed from Lavender Organics. However as you can clearly see this atol is Hanover property by virtue of our research station. Pay no attention to that group of Native squatters over there, the GEO court in Haven will doubtless reject their claim in favour of Hanover." > > Particularly, if you take into account the huge amount of money that there > was to be made post-recontact by selling tracts of land in Haven. Some of > the Haven natives had the opportunity to make sizable fortunes. What are > they doing now? What happened to the title rights of the natives that set > out for the more remote islands? Perhaps they have rights and title by virtue of occupation, while GEO is trying to claim Emminent Domain? I may develop some of these ideas further for adventure seeds. I would be very interested on a UC article on the subject. --dave > > I have some notes on this that I may develop into an Undercurrents article. > I am interested to hear your thoughts on these issues. > > Jeb > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:22 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) > Who is the sovereign on Poseidon? Post-recontact, it appears to be the GEO. > But, the GEO was not around to sponsor the original settlement expedition. > Plus, who was the sovereign during the years of the abandonment? I am not > aware that these basic government questions have been addressed. I think that this is the very crux of the political struggles on Poseidon. The GEO didn't exist before the Blight, when Poseidon was founded, but it is very clearly the inheritor of the organization that was. Does that mean it has jurisdiction? It thinks so, but the natives and a lot of members states do not. On top of that, there _are_ no clear statutes about how to deal with land disputes, which means that skilled lawyers can drag litigation out forever without the weight of established and clear law to control them. And those laws are difficult to enact when a large number of powerful organizations are quite happy with the current legal impotence of the GEO and such. And this makes for great role-playing fodder when the GEO decides to put the law behind justice and starts staging some 'incidents' to give itself another excuse to get involved in these land disputes. Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Atti2dboy@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:42 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) In a message dated Fri, 23 Feb 2001 5:29:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, kabael@softhome.net writes: >And this makes for great role-playing fodder when the GEO decides to put >the law behind justice and starts staging some 'incidents' to give itself >another excuse to get involved in these land disputes. Anybody who has access to Frontier Justice want to comment on whether this is addressed in that sourcebook? I don't have copy yet, but plan to go shopping for one tomorrow. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) And here's today's random thought, brought to you by a member of the U.S. > Real Estate Surveyor's Method of Land Apportionment: > > I wonder if they have any formal method of land apportionment on Poseidon > (For the newcomers, of course) and if that bears any resemblance to the > Tier/Range/Township method used by the U.S. or if it more resembles the > system they use in England (Which I know isn't the same as the U.S., but I > have no clue how it works). > ================================== > > This is a good question and potentially a big issue on post-recontact > Poseidon. Does First Colony address this issue at all? Well, there was a colonial administrator in Haven who was probably supposed to deal with such issues, but after the Abandonment, the position became pointless. > The BP sourcebooks include several brief comments about land title disputes > between native settlers and more recent colonists. But I am not aware of > any background information on land titles. > > There are a couple of fundamental questions that need to be resolved before > addressing land titles on Poseidon. First, who grants the land patents? > The European/N. American model is that the sovereign grants land titles. In > the U.S., this means that the original land title could have been granted by > either a state, the U.S. government, Mexico, or one of the original European > colonial powers. > > Who is the sovereign on Poseidon? Post-recontact, it appears to be the GEO. Hmm. Technically, I suppose the UN could claim that it was the original authority on Poseidon. > But, the GEO was not around to sponsor the original settlement expedition. > Plus, who was the sovereign during the years of the abandonment? I am not > aware that these basic government questions have been addressed. During the Abandonment, I'd say the natives basically settled wherever they wanted, and land ownership became relatively unimportant. > What sort of land title promises were made to the members of the original > settlement expedition? OMBP (On My Blue Planet)....I'd steal stuff from the Mars trilogy, and say that the original UN charter for Poseidon would have allocated holdings based on who could develop the region most effectively. The GEO have inherited this philosophy, but add a heavy dose of environmental conservatism (which justitifies a lot of anti-Incorporate decisions). The original colonists assumed that they'd only receive relatively modest holdings - after all, they were just supposed to be the initial seed of a colony, not a full colonisation group. There should have been a second ship after 10 years. Currently...land rights on Poseidon are a mess, The GEO claim to be in charge, but they're slipping. Half the Incorporates ignore the GEO completely, and the others pay lip service. Really, land ownership is going to be determined by who's living there (and, if GenDiver get involved, who's got the biggest guns). What's possibly more important and interesting is the question of mining rights. At the moment, land really isn't *that* important, with only two million people on the surface. The conflicts will be over resources, and the number one resource is Long John. *does a quick web search* http://www.cnie.org/nle/mine-1.html has some stuff about the Wild West era mining law and how it's evolved. More later...I'm off to a con to get Frontier Justice... :-) > Jeb Gar (OceanView Issue 2 - coming soon) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:55 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) > Anybody who has access to Frontier Justice want to comment on whether this is addressed in that sourcebook? > No, it's not. I'm just about done with the law section, and nothing's come up yet. > I don't have copy yet, but plan to go shopping for one tomorrow. It's definitely worth picking up, even if it did have me yelling a lot. Quick review: The criminal information rocks the house, I love the Gorchoff stuff. The other side of the thin blue line, however, takes up way too much space, goes into way too much detail and contains way too little of the "wow!" bits that _made_ the basic Blue Planet books. I haven't read the adventure yet, however. My overall opinion: You'll get more than your money's worth if you're running a cop game. If you're running a crime game, things get a bit more hairy. I think that this could have been the second best BP supplement (next to Archipelago) is they had given half as much time and space to the criminal sections as they did the law enforcement. Good book, but with some serious limitations. And yeah, I'm being really harsh and nit-picky, but the cop information just didn't seem to be in anywhere near the same league as the organized crime histories, and it was so much longer. And b'sides, this is Blue Planet and we've been trained to have damn high standards :) Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Zyndryl@excite.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:17 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Land Titles (Was: a little bit of useless BP info) Most likely scenario: 1) Recontact. GEO shows up, surveys planet and eventual census is taken of all found settlements. 2) Municipal boundaries are established and registered. From there, some sort of title registration would no doubt result. In the U.S., title registrations are done mostly at the county level(?), with additional archives stored by the states. For the Haven, Kingston and Incorporate areas, this would become quite detailed and developed. De facto property developed/occupied during the Abandonment would become grandfathered into the title registry system. That reinforces government sovereignty (remember, Kingston pretty much doesn't recognize GEO sovereignty, so the titles there would be stamped by the Kingston city gov't seal of approval), while protecting existing property owners. In other words, everyone stands to gain for joining into the system and would have land dispute problems otherwise. It certainly would be difficult to sell/buy untitle property in Haven afterwards, for example. 3) Alternatively, no title system is developed. In a lot of countries in the world today, one of the barriers to an American-style mortgage industry and home ownership levels is due to the lack of adequate title and deed registration by the governments. Just recently, there was a land dispute in Baja California where a Mexican court ruled that the land belonged to someone else. A whole bunch of American retirees who built condos developed on the land were immediately evicted as a result. Main source of the problem: No title registration & insurance system in Mexico. Most of those Americans paid hard cash for those condos, too. So, don't just take for granted that a title system would evolve on Poseidon. That would be awfully americancentric, too. -Dennis _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.