From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:37 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Overpopulation (was: Why go to Mars?) ----Original Message Follows---- From: Myles Corcoran Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:56:32 +0000 It wasn't economic opportunities, freedom from religious persecution (or the freedom to practise your own form of persecution), and a useful outlet for adventurous but disruptive types who would otherwise have to stay in England and invent corporate raiding? :) I think overcrowding is not the key, but the perception of opportunities denied in the colonizing home country/planet in question. People won't go to Mars, in my opinion, just to escape the teeming millions of Earth, but to attempt to achieve something they feel they couldn't achieve back on Earth surrounded by all those teeming types. Overcrowding may be a symptom of lack of opportunity and not necessarily the sole cause. ---------------------------------------------------- The lack of opportunity is one of the main ways that people experience overcrowding. For example, when people complain about traffic they are complaining about the lack of opportunity to travel at consistent speeds on streets and highways that are not congested. The perception of opportunities denied as a result of overcrowding was a major incentive in the colonization of the Americas and would likely be an incentive in the colonization of space. Lack of opportunity may result from multiple causes (i.e. religious persecution, lack of political freedom, etc.), but the only way that I can see overcrowding as a "symptom" of lack of opportunity is when people have large families because that is one of the few opportunities that they have for expressing themselves or attempt to increase their opportunities. Jeb _____ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Myles Corcoran [myles@irls3101.ck.cit.alcatel.fr] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:57 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Overpopulation (was: Why go to Mars?) Troy Gustavel wrote: > > > > John Brunner. I don't buy an over-population scenario > > > as a driving force for Martian colonizing. There's way too many > > > of us here already to make shipping some people to Mars a > > > feasible plan. > > Yes, but if the drive is coming from the private sector, the drive will > not be to releive pressure here on earth but the colonists going to > mars (or whereever) will be getting away from overcrowding here. The > drive to colonise the new world didn't do "much" to releive > overcrowding in - say - england, but overcrowding was a driving force nevertheless Really? It wasn't economic opportunities, freedom from religious persecution (or the freedom to practise your own form of persecution), and a useful outlet for adventurous but disruptive types who would otherwise have to stay in England and invent corporate raiding? :) I think overcrowding is not the key, but the perception of opportunities denied in the colonizing home country/planet in question. People won't go to Mars, in my opinion, just to escape the teeming millions of Earth, but to attempt to achieve something they feel they couldn't achieve back on Earth surrounded by all those teeming types. Overcrowding may be a symptom of lack of opportunity and not necessarily the sole cause. Myles -- Myles Corcoran Alcatel Ireland Ltd. Bandon, Cork, Ireland | (home) : (+353) 021 4503904 "Man invented language to satisfy his | (work) : (+353) 023 20469 deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin | (fax) : (+353) 023 20481 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:56 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - A Martian question > -----Original Message----- > From: Atti2dboy@aol.com [mailto:Atti2dboy@aol.com] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A Martian question > Books: > Mars Prime by William C. Dietz > I read some of Dietz' other work and enjoyed it very much (especially the Foreign Legion stuff). Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Omer Glick [oglick@inter.net.il] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:31 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Please Help. Can someone scan the SYNERGY rules from BPV2 for me and e-mail them to me at mailto:oglick@inter.net.il I desperetly need them I ordered the books from Dragonscroll but the damn morons haven't sent them for 3 monthes! and I have to run a game at a tournament on 4th of April! so please can someone e-mail them to me? this aspecially goes to the FFG guys, please satisfy a customer in need :) From: Atti2dboy@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:11 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - W. C. Dietz (was A Martian question) In a message dated Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:00:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Heivilin, Jim" writes: >I read some of Dietz' other work and enjoyed it very much (especially the >Foreign Legion stuff). I have read every book written by Dietz that I could get my hands on. They were not all good, but they are entertaining. Legion of the Damned is my favorite, and the sequels were interesting. I belive that their are now four books in the series. I also enjoyed his Sam McCade (an intergalactic bounty hunter)and Drifter (a smuggler) series. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Overpopulation (was: Why go to Mars?) didn't say overcrowding was the only driving force, just that the overcrowding aspect of the move was not to releive overcrowding in the parent nation but to get away from it. and most of the problems they were fleeing were partly because of population. Lack of economic opportunities, more people than jobs. Religious persecution, no place else to go to escape it. Outlet for free spirits, again, no place else for them to go. Ppulation contributes to all of these. Note I said contributes, not causes. There were other causes as well, but it is a factor --- Myles Corcoran wrote: > Really? It wasn't economic opportunities, freedom from religious >persecution (or the freedom to practise your own form of persecution), >and a useful outlet for adventurous but disruptive types who would > otherwise have to stay in England and invent corporate raiding? :) > I think overcrowding is not the key, but the perception of >opportunities denied in the colonizing home country/planet in > question. > People won't go to Mars, in my opinion, just to escape the teeming > millions of Earth, but to attempt to achieve something they feel they > couldn't achieve back on Earth surrounded by all those teeming types. Exactly, they are not escaping the teeming millions, they want to do something that can't be done with all those millins around, it's still population that is driving them. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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