From: Wil [dreamweaver@keyway.net] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 11:11 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Neo-tribals That's so funny - someone suggested this page for Tribe 8 as well ^_^ The Atomic Rumpus Room: Club Metro Survivor's Homepage, Klub Lathe info, Dreams of Flesh & Spirit, The Datacore, 60 Tons of Pure Whoopass, PikaDance, more! http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/ From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 10:46 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Neo-tribals Anyone who is interested in the current Neo-tribal metalsmiths and their work check out the links at: http://expage.com/neotribaltribute I was inspired to post this by the neo-tribal movement described in Natural Selections. Does anyone know if Poseidon has significant metal deposits? From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 12:16 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - E-Time to P-Time Hi, This is a question mainly for Greg and Jeff. How carefully were the various dates calculated when Earth and Poseidon dates are given? From the Player's Guide I take it that 01/03/2087 == 001.1 . I was working on my campaign notes last night and I whipped up a little utility to convert between the two calendars. But when I checked it against other known dates, I found errors. I calculated that recontact occured in June instead of July and that the 2 dates give in the Dunedin Monoliths article in UC #1 are about a year apart. I've also calculated that 1/1/2199 0:00 is 055.100 24:00 which seems to contradict the default start year of 2199 Earth / 99 Poseidon. There might be errors in my utility as dealing with calendars makes my head hurt, but I don't believe that I could be off by an entire year. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David Chart [hist@dchart.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 1:40 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - E-Time to P-Time --On 6/5/01 13:15 +0000 Ml10@aol.com wrote: > I've also calculated > that 1/1/2199 0:00 is 055.100 24:00 which seems to contradict the default > start year of 2199 Earth / 99 Poseidon. Having done the calculations, I think I have the problem. The Athena Project, being sensible scientists, decided to have a calendar with a zero in it. Thus, Planetfall was actually on 001.0. Journalists got this mixed up when writing the sourcebooks. ;-) Earth time: 112 years of 365 days, less two days from the start of 2087, plus 3 leap days in the twenty first century and twenty four in the twenty second. 40,905 Earth days. 981720 hours. 32724 Poseidon days. 99 Poseidon years, with 0.163636 years over -- that's 54 days. It's actually an exact match, so I guess I get 1/1/2199 0:00 to be 055.99 0:00. That doesn't allow for Poseidon having leap years, though, and it does assume a start at 001.0, because otherwise ninety nine completed years puts us in Poseidon year 100. As this clearly is an error, I vote for fixing it by declaring Planetfall to have been 001.0. Scientists would have had a zero. It makes calculations so much easier. David Chart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - E-Time to P-Time Bravo! And it doesn't require huge amounts of calculation, or messing around with time-space dilation and Relativity to reconcile the calendars. I ----- Original Message ----- From: David Chart To: Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - E-Time to P-Time > --On 6/5/01 13:15 +0000 Ml10@aol.com wrote: > > > I've also calculated > > that 1/1/2199 0:00 is 055.100 24:00 which seems to contradict the default > > start year of 2199 Earth / 99 Poseidon. > > Having done the calculations, I think I have the problem. The Athena > Project, being sensible scientists, decided to have a calendar with a zero > in it. Thus, Planetfall was actually on 001.0. Journalists got this mixed > up when writing the sourcebooks. ;-) > > Earth time: 112 years of 365 days, less two days from the start of 2087, > plus 3 leap days in the twenty first century and twenty four in the twenty > second. 40,905 Earth days. 981720 hours. 32724 Poseidon days. 99 Poseidon > years, with 0.163636 years over -- that's 54 days. It's actually an exact > match, so I guess I get 1/1/2199 0:00 to be 055.99 0:00. That doesn't allow > for Poseidon having leap years, though, and it does assume a start at > 001.0, because otherwise ninety nine completed years puts us in Poseidon > year 100. > > As this clearly is an error, I vote for fixing it by declaring Planetfall > to have been 001.0. Scientists would have had a zero. It makes calculations > so much easier. > > David Chart > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:38 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Taxonomic error and biomechanical questions Note this post deals with technical and somewhat pedantic points of vertebrate anatomy, feel free to ignore it. I have picked up an error in the taxonomy given in Natural Selection. The order Bimaxilla are described as having "two functioning mandibles. The side jaws are fused with the top jaw." The mandible is a single bone composed of two fused sides or rami and forms the lower jaw. The maxilla is a paired bone the two of which together form part of the upper jaw and hold the cheek teeth. They articulate with other facial bones to make up the rest of the face and upper jaw. Bimaxilla would indicate a creature possessing two maxillae, the norm for terrestrial species. The order in question seems to have two sets of maxillae, probably moving in parallel, as the side jaw is described as having fused with the top jaw. To name an order "bimaxilla" because it has two mandibles is bad biology and really should have been caught in proof-reading. To create a functional third jaw that occludes from the side would be a wonder of biomechanics that I would truly like to see. If anyone has worked out a way to do this I would very much like to see drawings of the skeletal articulation and muscular anatomy that makes it function. On a related anatomical topic, I assume that the hexapodal vertebrates of Poseidon have an extended rib-cage, and second shoulder girdle for the articulation of their mid-limbs. I have a strong background in biology and anthropology so that is where I tend to spot holes in the background. I am glad to see that V2 corrected the genetic problem with the original colonists from V1! From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 3:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Taxonomic error and anatomical inquiry I have spotted an error in the Taxonomy in "Natural Selection". The order Bimaxilla is described as having to functioning mandibles. If this were the case it should be bi-mandible. The Mandible is the lower jaw, the maxilla is the cheek portion of the upper jaw and is in fact a paired bone, so we are all bimaxillary! This confusion of maxilla and mandible really should have been spotted in proof-reading. I believe from reading the description that this order is characterized by having an upper jaw, a lower jaw, and a side jaw that has become fused with the upper jaw. Does the side jaw move in parallel with the upper jaw? This would seem to make the most sense from an anatomical standpoint. If the side jaw articulates in such a fashion as to be oclussal from the side I would very much like to see drawings showing both the skeletal articulation and muscular anatomy to make it function. I assume that the hexapods among Poseidon's vertebrates have a second thoracic (shoulder) girdle for the articulation of their mid-limbs. Do they have an extended spine and ribcage as well? Thank you for correcting the problem with the genetic transmission of the aquaform modifications that plagued the original Athena Project Colonists in v1. My father was a professor of biology and my maternal grandparents were both biologists as well so I grew up with a very strong background in the subject. Blue Planet does a remarkable job of presenting a fictional ecosystem and biology that actually works properly though. Not an easy task. The BP creatures are much better than the usual SF game approach of "lets get the artist to stick some animal bits together and then we'll make up stats for it" approach. The wildlife presented is also a lot more fleshed out than the old Traveller supplement "Animal Encounters" remember 25kg Pouncer, no armour, attacks as Blade, and other such wonderful creatures? OK it did present a balanced ecology, but it lacked any sense of what the ecosystem looked like. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 4:09 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - sorry for the double post Sorry for the double post of my last message, my computer hiccupped and told me it had been deleted rather than sent, so I retyped it in slightly less technical language and reposted it. --dave From: David Chart [hist@dchart.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 4:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - E-Time to P-Time --On 6/5/01 16:29 -0400 David R. Crowell wrote: > Bravo! And it doesn't require huge amounts of calculation, or messing > around with time-space dilation and Relativity to reconcile the calendars. Don't get me started on that... (The ends of the wormhole have spacelike separation, yet you can move between them instantly. Thus, the wormhole *is* a time machine. There is almost certainly a possible trajectory for a Creator ship which could see the Cousteau come out of the wormhole and zap it before it went in. There is simply no way round this if you accept relativity, hand-waving in the PG sidebar notwithstanding. If a cause and its effect have space-like separation, there are frames of reference in which the effect happens first.) David Chart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: John Daly [jdaly_iv@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 6:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Time Machines [Was: - E-Time to P-Time] Howdy all, I'd like to say I've been a fan of the BP system back to the first edition and I've just "rediscovered" it after the 2nd ed inital release. Just a couple of points to remember about the wormholes. Recent advances in particle physics includes the proof of Bell's Theorem imply an interconnectivity of the universe. (Bell's theorm is that two related particles with opposite spin, when separated, are still interacting with each other. The result being that if one changes the spin on one particle, the other particle's spin instantly changes to the opposite. The point being that this occurs instantly and over any distance.) Aside from the Hand Waving physics of the wormhole, one could use some advanced machine to "hand wave" Bell's theorm into including teleporters ALA Stargate and the like. Then again, one might be able to explain the "timelessness" of the trip as being part of the nature of the universe. Meaning that Relativity depends on moving through the universe at a speed - it might be possible to explain the "gates" as bending space so that no "relative" movement is occuring but the ship is transported. --- David Chart wrote: > --On 6/5/01 16:29 -0400 David R. Crowell wrote: > > > Bravo! And it doesn't require huge amounts of > calculation, or messing > > around with time-space dilation and Relativity to > reconcile the calendars. > > Don't get me started on that... > > (The ends of the wormhole have spacelike separation, > yet you can move > between them instantly. Thus, the wormhole *is* a > time machine. There is > almost certainly a possible trajectory for a Creator > ship which could see > the Cousteau come out of the wormhole and zap it > before it went in. There > is simply no way round this if you accept > relativity, hand-waving in the PG > sidebar notwithstanding. If a cause and its effect > have space-like > separation, there are frames of reference in which > the effect happens > first.) > > David Chart > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body > of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: chalz@earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Deep Angel **** Having read the 1st 2 episodes, I can say this is a web series by a pretty gifted pair of artist/screenwriters. By web series they mean it's like a TV series that just hasn't been picked up by a studio yet. ** Cool. I did some looking around later. Unfortunately, this is the first time in almost a week I've been able to use my own computer to make a 'Net connection. Windows went toasty, and I'm currently using an older version of QNX's RTP operating system. So I've been skimming a few minutes here and there on other peoples' machines ;) **** Apart from the excellent graphics, some of the setting is a bit weak - e.g. the Ming like Emperor of the Pacific, and I must say they lost me the moment the words 'cold fusion' were used. But for a two-person effort it's better than many studios output. ** Hehe. Oh you cynicist ;) Thanks for the quick review, though. Like I said, I haven't had much chance to check it out. Now that I have my own connection again (yay!) I'll take a couple looks at it. Soon as I can figure out how to increase the size of the font in this browser..... --Charles -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: chalz@earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 11:03 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - E-Time to P-Time **** Earth time: 112 years of 365 days, less two days from the start of 2087, plus 3 leap days in the twenty first century and twenty four in the twenty second. 40,905 Earth days. 981720 hours. 32724 Poseidon days. 99 Poseidon years, with 0.163636 years over -- that's 54 days. It's actually an exact match, so I guess I get 1/1/2199 0:00 to be 055.99 0:00. That doesn't allow for Poseidon having leap years, though, and it does assume a start at 001.0, because otherwise ninety nine completed years puts us in Poseidon year 100. ** Actually, in the V1 player's guide (dono about V2; I couldn't find it) there's a chart detailing various values for the Serpentis system's bodies. Page 002.28: Lambda Serpentis II .. Rotation: 30.012 Std Hours Year: 413.2 Std Days If you take the Earth year to be 365.25 Std Days (I don't think 24hrs is exact, but..) That's a lot easier than "plus 3 leap days in 21st cent and 24 in 22nd.." Though I have a conflict... (365.25 * 112) - 3 = 40905 days 40905 * 24 = 981720 hours 981720 / 30.012 = 32710.9 (~32711) Psdn Days or 40905 / 413.2 = 98.9956 Psdn Yrs Though... 32711 / 330 = 99.124 Which is like 002.99 or somesuch. We're not dealing with precise figures all around :/ Though... 413.2 * 30.012 = 12400.9584 (~12401) hrs/Psdn yr 365.25 * 24 = 8766 hrs/Std yr Which brings us to (8766 * 112) - (24 * 3) = 981720.. .. At this point I'm not entirely sure where I was heading with this. It's just after midnight, and I didn't sleep too well last night, so my head is a little frazzled. That and I keep running off onto mathematical tangents. Can someone pick up my meaning from this and carry it on? -C -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.