From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Greg Benage wrote: > I'll put it this way: If we feel that a standalone game has a good > chance to bring in new players and be successful on its own merits, > without dividing our audience or weakening the Blue Planet property, > we'll likely go that direction. So if there is no downside to doing a seperate game you will LIKELY do so. > How's that for a noncommittal answer? ;) About as non-commital as you could get I say :) ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:27 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > > How's that for a noncommittal answer? ;) > RE: It's better than the "When it's done" response that comp game designers give when asked when their new release dates are :) -- ChrisTheS *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:20 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Gustavel" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:50 PM Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > Why not? I think we have actually managed to bring this issue into > focus, seems to me that this discussions is probably very useful to > Jeff and Greg. don't know though, we haven't heard from them on this. We haven't reached any firm decision on this issue yet. It's the kind of discussion that can go on a while, because frankly, both points of view have merit. I'll put it this way: If we feel that a standalone game has a good chance to bring in new players and be successful on its own merits, without dividing our audience or weakening the Blue Planet property, we'll likely go that direction. How's that for a noncommittal answer? ;) Greg FFG *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:05 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > Blue Planet is a cool game. A lot of that cool factor comes from the > waterworld idea. I can't see World of Hurt being as cool as Blue Planet. A > good game, sure, I expect as much from Biohazard, but what extra "hooks" > does it have to pull it out of the generic cyberpunk / near future genre? RE: Perhaps not have it be COMPLETELY standalone? Say, have it be for the most part the Earth equivalent of the MG: providing the same detail on Earth and its environs that the MG does for Poseidon. Then, just for convenience, or as bait to lure the non-BP-initiated into BP, include a less detailed version of the Synergy rules, containing all the statistical elements necessary to play but without too much or any detail--sort of like SJG including "GURPS Lite" with all their worldbooks. > > So, who's going to buy it? People who already play Blue Planet, for hte most > part. Maybe a few people who were turned off by the waterworld idea(probably > not that many). > RE: Actually, believe it or not, I wasn't too enthralled by the waterworld idea when you first introduced the game to our group. The only reason I actually played it was because that's what the rest of the group decided to do and it was either that or sit back and watch everyone else play (although, admittedly, most of my reservations are due to the fact that we were playing with CORPS, and I didn't like CORPS very much then and I still don't, but that's irrelevant to this case). > Assume you're recommending one of the two to a friend. Which do you > recommend, the Poseidon frontier-waterworld with abos and Marshalls and > 'fins, or the equally high quality semi-dark future on a trashed Earth? > Which have we seen more of? RE: Which would seem to me to be a powerful advocate FOR WoH. We haven't seen so much of Earth at the moment because BP is more oriented toward Poseidon. It doesn't prevent games on Earth, but the wealth of detail that exists for Poseidon is very much absent from Earth. This is something that really should be corrected. > > Sure, there'll be some neat bits, and if they rework most of the material, > it'll be fun(new origin packages, for example), but I think it will always > be second-fiddle to Blue Planet. RE: Well... got to agree with you there. Another reason for just making it a sourcebook rather than a standalone. > > Andy -- ChrisTheS *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:33 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror --- Shannon Wiley wrote: > World of Darkness games are meant to be games of 'Personal Horror.' > ..., but complete and utter horror about yourself and what you are. Yeah, but I have always thought of the "Horror" genre as being external terrors. Innocent, powerless, unpreparred characters being faced with "reality"... Oh well, way off topic > I think that World of Hurt should probably have an initial format > similar to Blue Planet: A "Player's Guide" that describes the Earth > of 2099 in the same method that the BP Player's Guide does, as well > as a "Moderator's Guide" that then describes all the super-secret > stuff going on behind the scenes. That's basically what I think as well, seperate core books for both games, then supplements that may support one or both games. (frex, If WoH was already out, fluid Mech would be supporting both, while first Colony is only needed by BP) I don't know, it's a tricky situation. Any way works for me, I just want to see the entire setting developed as much as possible. but I would like to see it expand into one of the BIG RPGs on the market, and I think marketing WoH seperatly has a better chance of doing that. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Andy Wills [andywills@stormsurge.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:24 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Blue Planet is a cool game. A lot of that cool factor comes from the waterworld idea. I can't see World of Hurt being as cool as Blue Planet. A good game, sure, I expect as much from Biohazard, but what extra "hooks" does it have to pull it out of the generic cyberpunk / near future genre? So, who's going to buy it? People who already play Blue Planet, for hte most part. Maybe a few people who were turned off by the waterworld idea(probably not that many). Assume you're recommending one of the two to a friend. Which do you recommend, the Poseidon frontier-waterworld with abos and Marshalls and 'fins, or the equally high quality semi-dark future on a trashed Earth? Which have we seen more of? Sure, there'll be some neat bits, and if they rework most of the material, it'll be fun(new origin packages, for example), but I think it will always be second-fiddle to Blue Planet. Andy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Shannon Wiley [shannonwiley@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror Troy Wrote: Hmmm, not sure I would classify Vampire as horror. Not sure what I WOULD classify it as though. Then your not playing it the same way the designers intended. All 6 of the World of Darkness games are meant to be games of 'Personal Horror.' Not the in-your-face insanity that is CoC, but complete and utter horror about yourself and what you are. Even Mage and Changeling were originally intended as Horror-based games. This doesn't mean you're playing it wrong, just not the way Rein-dot-Hagen and Wieck intended the things to be played. So to bring this back to Blue Planet (As I'd hate for my first post back on the list to be completely off topic: I think that World of Hurt should probably have an initial format similar to Blue Planet: A "Player's Guide" that describes the Earth of 2099 in the same method that the BP Player's Guide does, as well as a "Moderator's Guide" that then describes all the super-secret stuff going on behind the scenes. Admittedly, depending on what Greg, Jeff, Jason and Jim have planned, there may not -be- all that super-secret stuff to warrant a separate book, in which case a single Book of a 250 - 300 page count might suffice. I Think World of Hurt should be a supplement to Blue Planet - a Campaign setting or somesuch. I don't think it should be a separate game line, otherwise you start running into some nastiness such like Deadlands has recently run into: You publish a Rules update in BP, and people who only play WoH have to buy a BP supplement just for the rules update, or if you make the rules update in products for each game line, then the consumers get upset that their paying for something they already have (That's not a riff on Deadlands, since I think that's my only complaint about Pinnacle). I realize that The Synergy Rules are pretty much complete and in-place and that no one really intends for any supplemental/additional/updated rules to be published, but this is a living industry. Something is eventually going to happen. Even with World of Hurt being a 'sub-set' of Blue Planet, it still leaves Biohazard and FFG the option of publishing WoH specific products, though, again, I personally believe that you should only have one of each type of supplement. It gets really expensive buying a hardback Blue Planet Tech Guide and a WoH Hardback Tech Guide and a BP Natural Selection and a WoH Natural Selection and a BP Posse and a WoH Posse....(which is good for FFG/Biohazard, but bad for gamers' bank accounts. So there. My take on it all. Shannon "It's good to be Back" Wiley shannonwiley@home.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:21 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt William I agree with all your comments. But make the following point: > FFG can either design WoH as an alternate Game Moderator's book or as a pure > supplement. > The second option allows more information to be packed into the game. > IMO, I think this second option would be a better idea. The Blue Planet Moderators Guide is essentially a large supplement on the Pacifica Archipelago and Poseidon. It contains very little rules information. So I agree that a supplement for WoH is the best way to go but say that WoH deserves a large supplement of a similar caliber (rather than a small supplement like First Colony). Such a supplement should contain some technology and additional character templates (without duplicating the rules) to provide a comprehensive overview of Earth. This section would be small 50+ pages and would allow players to use it as a Blue Planet supplement or as a replacement to the MG for purely Earth based games. I think we are on the same track but if we are not, I am not sure I understand your point :) Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Wil [dreamweaver@keyway.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:13 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Character Template book (was Re: World of Hurt) Y'know, I think the idea of a character template book, that is *all* character templates and new backgrounds, is a pretty nifty idea. I usually have little or no use for character compendiums, but the templates are a different story. FWIW, I think that WoH would best serve everyone's purposes as a Moderator Guide style and size book, without actually being a stand alone game. The Atomic Rumpus Room: Club Metro Survivor's Homepage, Klub Lathe info, Dreams of Flesh & Spirit, The Datacore, 60 Tons of Pure Whoopass, PikaDance, more! http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tom Barnes [twb3@primary.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - multi-mode watercraft All vehicle designs (well, all design actually) involve compromise. For example, the supersonic cruise requirement drove the Concorde design to have very high takeoff and landing speeds as well as unfavorable low-speed flying characteristics that were factors in last years' accident. You just don't see very many supersonic STOL (Short Takeoff & Landing) aircraft. (Yes, I know that JSF is supposed to be all this but stealty and cheap to boot, but note that it hasn't been built yet!) A design that attempts to do many things will likely not be very good at any of them or will be so expensive to produce that it isn't practical to build. In this case, why not design a small Ekranoplane (WIG) that can takeoff and land from the water as well as float? Otherwise, the long list of requirements will add lots of weight, complexity and cost. Some of the problems I can think of are things like -- - WIGs need to fly very low for minimum aerodynamic drag, so the hydrofoils will probably have to be retractable for flight mode (cost, compexity and requires internal space). - The 10m submergence requirement dosen't buy that much storm survival (I suspect you would have to be a LOT deeper to ride out a Noah), but means that EVERY external opening will have to be proof against in excess of 1 atmosphere of outside pressure. - Shaping the hull for best seakeeping in the boat mode will not result in the moldline that produces the lowest drag and best performance in the flying mode. Tom *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- William Timmins wrote: > WoH as a sister game: > People who play BP and want the info of WoH get ticked off because > they are buying a lot of repeated rules information. But that's just it, from my PoV, very little information would be repeated, and all of it in only one book that will be PACKED with new material as well. > The game must sell a genre of rebuilding civilization, politics, with > a few isolated frontiers (crime ridden areas, the belt and space), > with a very deadly/realistic ruleset and little>no mystery, No less mystery than any other cyberpunk game. I agree with someone else's comments that Earth in 2199 should probably be a blend of C-Punk and Post-Apocalypse, which will serve to distinguish it from other C-Punk games > It also lacks magic, which is a _huge_ draw for Shadowrun. Gamers > love magic, of some sort, and it's hard to sell games without it. If you say so, I have yet to include anything magical in my shadowrun game. > They'd need a Player's Book, Game Moderator's book, maybe a tech > book, then some world supplements every once in a while to keep the > game alive. (You _have_ to publish supplements to remind people/hook > people) But either way we BP players are hoping for the same volume of development for the Sol system, I think. I know I am. > WoH as a supplement: > People who play BP can use this information to play prologs, to seed > information in their games, and to create more travel in their games. > They can also shift focus to Sol, when they want a change of venue in > a consistant campaign. > They do this with a book that is solid material, no/little redundant > material. they can do this no matter how Sol gets developed, my whole point is how little earth related material is actually in the PG > People who are interested in a Sol game without 'that waterworld > nonsense' can get hooked by the Shadowrun-like atmosphere of Earth > games. Not if they can't buy it as a seperate game. Just about everyone who is going to buy the blue planet game on it's own has done so by now. It is unlikely that the fan base will expand significantly anythime soon without an external push. If they are not playing BP already, any new book that comes out with the words "Blue Planet" in big blue letters on the top will probably not even be looked at. A new book with "World of Hurt" plastered across the top will draw attention and get people to look at it who wouldn;t have looked at a new BP supplement, when they read the blurb on the back and see that it is a self contained game set on Earth but in the Blue Planet universe some of them will think "Gee, I've heard good things about Blue planet, and this looks more like a setting I would play" > In time, they may find that Posiedon is a lot more interesting than > they heard through the grapevine, and expand into more typical BP > fare. Hopefully yes, but they have to start playing the synergy system in the universe first, and I think marketed as a seperate game is the best way to get those people. > It takes a _lot_ of energy to maintain a gameline enough to keep it > going. It's hard for _any_ game company to maintain more than one, > and takes careful juggling. But those companies that do it tend to prosper better than one-trick pony outfits > I think there are a lot of advantages to a 'shared setting', not the > least of which is that Sol-based games can use equipment, ideas, or > events in Serpentis to enrich them, and vice versa. That means each > game gets _twice_ as much material. Exactly, each GAME can share material. They do both take place in the same universe at the same time after all, it's just that the focus of each is different. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:23 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Luke Walker wrote: > I must admit I do come from a town with a high CoC participation > rate. Arkham or Innsmouth? :) ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:00 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt >From: Troy Gustavel >I suppose it all comes down to how many more people will be attracted >by a sister game. I feel the number will be significant, others think >that not many will be drawn away from shadowrun and cyberpunk who have >not already been. IMO, it breaks down like this: WoH as a sister game: People who play BP and want the info of WoH get ticked off because they are buying a lot of repeated rules information. The game must sell a genre of rebuilding civilization, politics, with a few isolated frontiers (crime ridden areas, the belt and space), with a very deadly/realistic ruleset and little>no mystery, except the sister game of BP... which requires you to buy BP books. It also lacks magic, which is a _huge_ draw for Shadowrun. Gamers love magic, of some sort, and it's hard to sell games without it. FFG must develop and support a whole suite of books and supplements to maintain a viable line, in _addition_ to BP, in a niche market that typically doesn't sell very well. They'd need a Player's Book, Game Moderator's book, maybe a tech book, then some world supplements every once in a while to keep the game alive. (You _have_ to publish supplements to remind people/hook people) WoH as a supplement: People who play BP can use this information to play prologs, to seed information in their games, and to create more travel in their games. They can also shift focus to Sol, when they want a change of venue in a consistant campaign. They do this with a book that is solid material, no/little redundant material. People who are interested in a Sol game without 'that waterworld nonsense' can get hooked by the Shadowrun-like atmosphere of Earth games. They may need to get one or two BP books with some unwanted (at least at first) material, but for most game lines this is rather reasonable. In time, they may find that Posiedon is a lot more interesting than they heard through the grapevine, and expand into more typical BP fare. FFG can either design WoH as an alternate Game Moderator's book or as a pure supplement. The first option allows gamers to buy only two books (Player's Guide and WoH moderator book), the second probably requires three books (Player's Guide, Moderator's Guide, and WoH book). The second option allows more information to be packed into the game. IMO, I think this second option would be a better idea. Again, the size of the market for pure SF games is small to begin with, and I suspect they'd be better off pleasing people with more information than with cheaper outlays. Afterall, gamers are _always_ annoyed at costs, despite the fact game books are created with absurdly thin profit margins. Overall, it's probably obvious I support WoH, presuming the information we've talked about is anything like they intend to create, as a supplement. It takes a _lot_ of energy to maintain a gameline enough to keep it going. It's hard for _any_ game company to maintain more than one, and takes careful juggling. I think there are a lot of advantages to a 'shared setting', not the least of which is that Sol-based games can use equipment, ideas, or events in Serpentis to enrich them, and vice versa. That means each game gets _twice_ as much material. Actually, a hybrid option might be interesting... say, a small (gazette style) book of rules and templates, that can be used easily in both settings. So, print WoH as a pure supplement. If the market/demand warrants, a Game Book with chargen and game moderator info could be put out, with _no_ overt setting info (beyond what the templates are) Hmm. Anyhow, all of this is musing from the magical airs of my posterior. -=Will _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:03 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? > Yes you are correct a true Hard Science fiction is based in our science > and not in speculations about the science in a distant future And for you what is the difference between a Hard Science Fiction and > Science Fiction? Hard SF tries to keep within what is possible with known science. It becomes progressively softer until it becomes Science Fantasy. Science Fantasy is fantasy with SF trappings, ray-guns, spaceships, Star Wars for example. Star Trek is very soft SF, science is followed but can be bent or ignored when the story demands it. Think of it as a spectrum. > About GURPS a like the system and in my opnion it is much better then > the Synergy system. That is a matter of personal taste and if it works for you I say enjoy it. --dave > > Wagner > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:35 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Wow! I'm gone all day and come back to about 30 messages on WoH! My two cents, WoH as a MG sized book, one volume containing Synergy rules, character generation, and background (like BPv1), a FM/FJ/NS sized sourcebook covering the rest of the Solar System, then include bits relevant to Both Sol and Lambda Serpentis systems in future sourcebooks on subjects such as GEO and Incorporate. I don't want to see WoH turn into just another cyberpunk game, I would prefer to see it along the lines of a Post-Apocalypse (or perhaps near-apocalypse) setting. From the time line that seems to be closer to the mark. I don't think that WoH needs to become a separate game line, but I do think there are enough changes from Poseidon to warrent a standalone game book. Besides the Synergy rules are all of 12 pages or so. I believe very strongly that the game's focus should continue to be Posiedon, but I would like details on the situation on Earth for contrast. --dave *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Subscriptions In a message dated 5/8/01 6:04:15 PM Central Daylight Time, luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz writes: << Does anyone know if FFG provide subscription facilities for their games and in particular Blue Planet? If not would anyone on this list be interested in such an option? >> I've talked to Chris (FFG head honcho) on several occasions about this. He indicated that due to staffing and overhead, it was unfeasable. FFG does have the next best thing: online ordering. They even allow people to pre-order stuff. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:11 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Second biggest seller has to be Vampire. Rifts is up there but nothing is close to D&D and Vampire in terms of sales. Luke -----Original Message----- From: Machiavelli132@aol.com [SMTP:Machiavelli132@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2001 12:05 To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Well, if you count the WoD as Horror (which I don't, but some do), then yes, Horror is second. Otherwise the second biggest seller is "Rifts", and that game just doesn't know whether it's fantasy or sci-fi. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:07 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > Add in Kult, I own a copy of Kult somewhere, the only copy i have ever seen, game stores around here don't even carry it. OK Kult is a bit obscure but has a small and strong following. > Unknown Armies Never heard of this one John Tynes and Greg Stolze. It was nominated for Best RPG about a few years ago. Probably a bit bigger than Blue Planet in sales (just a guess). > Delta Green Never seen a copy of this, only heard of it a few times online, has some connection to Cthulu doesn't it? It was a 1990s setting supplement for CoC by Pagan Publishing. It essentially brings CoC into modern day and intrciately weaves the Mythos with things such as Alien phenomena and government conspiracies etc. It and its sister product Delta Green Countdown (300+ and 400+ pages a piece, almost all setting) are one of the most highly acclaimed and regarded RPG products I know. The level of research and thought involved is quite inspiring. Both did much to revitalise CoC and were commercial successes. There are plenty of reviews around (RPGnet is a good start). I must admit I do come from a town with a high CoC participation rate. Also as mentioned WoDs connections to Horror do add to the genre as a RPG. Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Machiavelli132@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:05 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Well, if you count the WoD as Horror (which I don't, but some do), then yes, Horror is second. Otherwise the second biggest seller is "Rifts", and that game just doesn't know whether it's fantasy or sci-fi. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:59 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > Because doing so may increase the number of people who play > BioHazard/Fantasy Flight Games, thus increasing their profit margin and > allowing them to last longer in the market. > I suppose it all comes down to how many more people will be attracted > by a sister game. I feel the number will be significant, others think > that not many will be drawn away from shadowrun and cyberpunk who have > not already been. You make good points and I agree that it is really a matter of how much success you think a sister game will have and also how much benefit and/or detriment it may have on Blue Planet. >> > Why not? I think we have actually managed to bring this issue into > focus, seems to me that this discussions is probably very useful to > Jeff and Greg. don't know though, we haven't heard from them on this. It made me feel better for saying it and for my employers benefit, in case I am caught :) Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Luke Walker wrote: > Add in Kult, I own a copy of Kult somewhere, the only copy i have ever seen, game stores around here don't even carry it. > Unknown Armies Never heard of this one > Delta Green Never seen a copy of this, only heard of it a few times online, has some connection to Cthulu doesn't it? ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:50 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Luke Walker wrote: > Why not simply set up WoH to be a part of BP? If the system is the > same only setting will be different. So why repeat the system for > more setting and pay the costs for reformatting etc. Because doing so may increase the number of people who play BioHazard/Fantasy Flight Games, thus increasing their profit margin and allowing them to last longer in the market. I suppose it all comes down to how many more people will be attracted by a sister game. I feel the number will be significant, others think that not many will be drawn away from shadowrun and cyberpunk who have not already been. > Why not? I think we have actually managed to bring this issue into focus, seems to me that this discussions is probably very useful to Jeff and Greg. don't know though, we haven't heard from them on this. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:46 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > The rpg industry consists of D&D, Vampire, and assorted small press > games. Hmmm, not sure I would classify Vampire as horror. Not sure what I WOULD classify it as though. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:29 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > HORROR??????? Who the blazes plays horror games, I've always assumed > call of cthulu has only survived on the strength of lovecraft's work > and a small ...."cult" following Actually I think Gareth is right. Horror is pretty big (around my way especially). CoC is one of the longest established and best selling RPG games beyond the biggees (D&D and Vampire). Add in Kult, Unknown Armies and Delta Green etc and its a pretty big contender. Should we add in World of Darkness? :) Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:27 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt This is drifting rapidly away from BP, so I'll drop it after this. > --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > On-line doesn't mean a whole load, though. BP is critically > > acclaimed, yes, but so are a lot of games which aren't played as much > > as they deserve. Actually, thinking about it, Shadowrun's on hiatus, > > and Cyberpunk's stuck struggling to get out of Microsoft. > > What's this? how did microsoft get it's talons into c-Punk? The guy who basically is the entirety of R. Talsorian games, the publishers of Cyberpunk, (Mike Pondsmith?) got hired by MS, which left him with no time for running an rpg company. I think he's trying to restart Cyberpunk at the moment when he finds time. > > Sci-fi has always been a distant third compared to fantasy and > horror. > > HORROR??????? Who the blazes plays horror games, I've always assumed > call of cthulu has only survived on the strength of lovecraft's work > and a small ...."cult" following The rpg industry consists of D&D, Vampire, and assorted small press games. > Troy Gustavel Gar http://www.mytholder.f2s.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:25 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Why not simply set up WoH to be a part of BP? If the system is the same only setting will be different. So why repeat the system for more setting and pay the costs for reformatting etc. I agree that WoH should be more than a supplement but I do not see a seperate line as a good design feature Honestly I think there are two different camps on this. I respect your position. IMO by diverging BP at such an early stage you risk an already great game. You would be better with an expanded WoH MGs supplement. Luke -----Original Message----- From: Troy Gustavel [SMTP:troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2001 11:12 To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Angus McNicholl wrote: > Gus: Why not simple set up the two games to run parallel... BP runs > the > Seprentus side, while WoH runs the Sol side, so long as the system is > unchanged its perfectly easy to cross over or not... > Exactly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Troy Gustavel > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:59 PM > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > > > > But most of the players guide needs to be rewritten to make it > easily > > work off of poseidon. > > > > The entire introduction chapter, character creation could do > without > > the aquaforms (who were engeneered for poseidon) and the cetaceans > (who > > will have even less to do on earth adventures) and several races > added > > (such as the mongrels from FM) Sol system needs alot more > sol-specific > > background packages and doesn't need any of the native and > colonial > > packages from BP, the skill list MIGHT need to be expanded > somewhat, > > WoH would need a completely new set of archetypes, the character > > profile chapter could use some editing for sol based games, The > games > > system chapter is fine as is (a whole 12 pages), but the hardware > and > > bioware chapters should be redone as alot of that equipment is > > radically less important on earth (MHD harnesses frex) Only about 6 > > pages of the future history chapter deal with earth and the entire > on > > the frontier chapter has no bearing on sol system. The timeline > covers > > both systems fairly well. > > > > I would estimate that, out of about 250 pages in the PG, only 50-75 > > pages of content apply to the sol system well. That tells me that a > > seperate PG for WoH is appropriate, as well as a Pure setting book > that > > goes into more detail. > > > > The real question is whether it is a good idea to try and keep the > > lines seperate after that. Is it a good idea to have a seperate > tech > > book for WoH AND BP? Should the incorp sourcebook deal with both > > systems, or have seperate books? > > > > that's my point of view > > > > ===== > > Troy Gustavel > > 5825 Bolender Rd. > > Akron, OH 44319 > > (330)882 5468 > > Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com > > > > "Once upon a midnight dreary..." > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:20 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > On-line doesn't mean a whole load, though. BP is critically > acclaimed, yes, but so are a lot of games which aren't played as much > as they deserve. Actually, thinking about it, Shadowrun's on hiatus, > and Cyberpunk's stuck struggling to get out of Microsoft. What's this? how did microsoft get it's talons into c-Punk? > Sci-fi has always been a distant third compared to fantasy and horror. HORROR??????? Who the blazes plays horror games, I've always assumed call of cthulu has only survived on the strength of lovecraft's work and a small ...."cult" following > I'm not sure if that's a huge factor. Then again...curse you, you're > making me doubt my arguments. That may well be one of the biggest compliments I have ever recieved, thank you > Not hugely. The archetype doesn't make a great fuss about being a > native, really. Change it to "Silva Security Guard". Hmmm, mabey, I never use the archetypes anyway, I find character creation in synergy to be so fast and easy and rather just make a custom character for any NPCs I needed ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:12 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Angus McNicholl wrote: > Gus: Why not simple set up the two games to run parallel... BP runs > the > Seprentus side, while WoH runs the Sol side, so long as the system is > unchanged its perfectly easy to cross over or not... > Exactly. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Troy Gustavel > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:59 PM > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > > > > But most of the players guide needs to be rewritten to make it > easily > > work off of poseidon. > > > > The entire introduction chapter, character creation could do > without > > the aquaforms (who were engeneered for poseidon) and the cetaceans > (who > > will have even less to do on earth adventures) and several races > added > > (such as the mongrels from FM) Sol system needs alot more > sol-specific > > background packages and doesn't need any of the native and > colonial > > packages from BP, the skill list MIGHT need to be expanded > somewhat, > > WoH would need a completely new set of archetypes, the character > > profile chapter could use some editing for sol based games, The > games > > system chapter is fine as is (a whole 12 pages), but the hardware > and > > bioware chapters should be redone as alot of that equipment is > > radically less important on earth (MHD harnesses frex) Only about 6 > > pages of the future history chapter deal with earth and the entire > on > > the frontier chapter has no bearing on sol system. The timeline > covers > > both systems fairly well. > > > > I would estimate that, out of about 250 pages in the PG, only 50-75 > > pages of content apply to the sol system well. That tells me that a > > seperate PG for WoH is appropriate, as well as a Pure setting book > that > > goes into more detail. > > > > The real question is whether it is a good idea to try and keep the > > lines seperate after that. Is it a good idea to have a seperate > tech > > book for WoH AND BP? Should the incorp sourcebook deal with both > > systems, or have seperate books? > > > > that's my point of view > > > > ===== > > Troy Gustavel > > 5825 Bolender Rd. > > Akron, OH 44319 > > (330)882 5468 > > Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com > > > > "Once upon a midnight dreary..." > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Angus McNicholl [darthgus@lineone.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:48 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Gus: Why not simple set up the two games to run parallel... BP runs the Seprentus side, while WoH runs the Sol side, so long as the system is unchanged its perfectly easy to cross over or not... Gus... http://website.lineone.net/~darthgus/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Gustavel To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > But most of the players guide needs to be rewritten to make it easily > work off of poseidon. > > The entire introduction chapter, character creation could do without > the aquaforms (who were engeneered for poseidon) and the cetaceans (who > will have even less to do on earth adventures) and several races added > (such as the mongrels from FM) Sol system needs alot more sol-specific > background packages and doesn't need any of the native and colonial > packages from BP, the skill list MIGHT need to be expanded somewhat, > WoH would need a completely new set of archetypes, the character > profile chapter could use some editing for sol based games, The games > system chapter is fine as is (a whole 12 pages), but the hardware and > bioware chapters should be redone as alot of that equipment is > radically less important on earth (MHD harnesses frex) Only about 6 > pages of the future history chapter deal with earth and the entire on > the frontier chapter has no bearing on sol system. The timeline covers > both systems fairly well. > > I would estimate that, out of about 250 pages in the PG, only 50-75 > pages of content apply to the sol system well. That tells me that a > seperate PG for WoH is appropriate, as well as a Pure setting book that > goes into more detail. > > The real question is whether it is a good idea to try and keep the > lines seperate after that. Is it a good idea to have a seperate tech > book for WoH AND BP? Should the incorp sourcebook deal with both > systems, or have seperate books? > > that's my point of view > > ===== > Troy Gustavel > 5825 Bolender Rd. > Akron, OH 44319 > (330)882 5468 > Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com > > "Once upon a midnight dreary..." > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:49 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Subscriptions Does anyone know if FFG provide subscription facilities for their games and in particular Blue Planet? If not would anyone on this list be interested in such an option? I am also a big fan of Tribe 8 and Dream Pod 9 offer a subscription service where they automatically send their books to you as they come off the printer. DP9 offer very good shipping rates, about 50% their standard. This means I get books before the US retailers (I live in New Zealand so this is no mean feat) and the books are cheaper or the same as those I get at my gaming store. AFAIK they let people subcribe and unsubscribe pretty much as they will but most stay on for the convenience (I realise this means they are encouraged not to pick and choose products, but for a publisher (not a consumer) this is a good thing) Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > If it doubled the BP player base, then yeah, do it. Trouble is, I > > don't think it would. BP has a distinct identity, WoH wouldn't > > to the same extent. I have no doubt it would be an excellent > > cyberpunk-esque game...but there are already lots of similar games > > out there already, and it would be fighting against established > > favourites like Shadowrun and Cyberpunk. > > My group has been playing shadowrun, we are quitting because nobody > likes the rules set for it, the impression I have is that many people > feel the same way. I do not know of anyone who plays cyberpunk 2020, > and I don't think it sells well at my local gaming store, nore have a > seen a lot of discussion about it on line. On-line doesn't mean a whole load, though. BP is critically acclaimed, yes, but so are a lot of games which aren't played as much as they deserve. Actually, thinking about it, Shadowrun's on hiatus, and Cyberpunk's stuck struggling to get out of Microsoft. It's probably a good time to work on a Cyberpunk game, if such a time exists, and I'm not sure if it does. Sci-fi has always been a distant third compared to fantasy and horror. > BP has received much praise > for it's... well for everything, but it still has only a small > following, aparently due to emphasis on water. I'm not sure if that's a huge factor. Then again...curse you, you're making me doubt my arguments. >A few reveiws that went > along the line of "...as detailed and realistic as BP, but in a more > traditional setting..." would, I think, make WoH a very popular buy. BP > is a small game, it wouldn't take much to doublethe fan base. Heh. Interesting business case. :-) > > I don't think there's a need for more Hybrids, although more Genies > > would probably fit... > > > The Silva warden and the ecoterrorist could be adapted fairly easily. > > The NATIVE ecoterrorist would need to be completely reworked to remove > the native aspects, Not hugely. The archetype doesn't make a great fuss about being a native, really. >and the wardens are aparently unique to poseidon, > arising out of the GEO's personel shortage there Change it to "Silva Security Guard". > > I've been deeply traumatised and am now on strong sedatives due to > > your constant belligerance. (I have been told I come across as a > > sarcastic git by email :-)). > > Oh, nooooo, you don't come across as at allll sarcastic :) I'll try harder. > Troy Gustavel Gar http://www.mytholder.f2s.com and, 'cos I'm posting way too much tonight, I'll grab another email and answer it in this one: >Perhaps they are holding back for a big announcement, such as > WoH the table top minatures game :) Nah. It's Cetacean Charades, the party board game where players have to mime the titles of popular books and movies using only flipper gestures, high-pitched sqeaks, and beach balls. > Luke -Gar who still wants a BP card game.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:16 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt >> but that is because Poseidon is a big part of Earth's history >> If a sister WoH game was created Poseidon would still be a huge >> part of the game. > How so? for 90% of the population of the earth in 2199 poseidon is > probably no more relevent to tham than outer space is to people today. > A new frontier none of them are probably ever going to see that > occasionally is the source of new technology that they can now purchase > dirt side I agree and disagree. I agree that the actual impact of Poseidon on everyday affairs may be slight and an adventure could be tailored to include no elements linked to Poseidon. However, Poseidon is a big part of Earth and what is going on. I keep thinking of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy here. The very fact that many needed resources are going from Earth to Poseidon, GEO (the world's leader) is fighting for survival on Poseidon, Posedion promises of a better life and of immortality would have massive impact on society. Real Life Psoeidon CommCore shows ARRRGGHHH :) Poseidon would be one most influential aspect on Earth life. Sure it doesn't effect every part but much of it. On another level Poseidon holds an important place in the game of Blue Planet. I think this is where we may fundamentally disagree. Poseidon is what makes Blue Planet different to other games. BP is not just another hard scifi cyber punk game. It is something different. To make WoH exclusive of Poseidon would fundamentally change the game. I know that you think this is a good idea. I don't. BP needs WoH to support it as a game first. I still believe if you want a hard scifi cyberpunk game without Poseidon don't cut it out of what is a good game at the expense of that game. > BTW, Greg, Jeff , has any decision been made on this topic? Is it > pointless to discuss this or are you guys still collecting data? Agreed :) Perhaps they are holding back for a big announcement, such as WoH the table top minatures game :) Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:09 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > If it doubled the BP player base, then yeah, do it. Trouble is, I > don't think it would. BP has a distinct identity, WoH wouldn't > to the same extent. I have no doubt it would be an excellent > cyberpunk-esque game...but there are already lots of similar games > out there already, and it would be fighting against established > favourites like Shadowrun and Cyberpunk. My group has been playing shadowrun, we are quitting because nobody likes the rules set for it, the impression I have is that many people feel the same way. I do not know of anyone who plays cyberpunk 2020, and I don't think it sells well at my local gaming store, nore have a seen a lot of discussion about it on line. BP has received much praise for it's... well for everything, but it still has only a small following, aparently due to emphasis on water. A few reveiws that went along the line of "...as detailed and realistic as BP, but in a more traditional setting..." would, I think, make WoH a very popular buy. BP is a small game, it wouldn't take much to doublethe fan base. > Now, I know to some extent rpgs don't compete with each other that > much, but I still really doubt WoH would sell as well as BP does. I think it would sell significantly better than BP > I don't think there's a need for more Hybrids, although more Genies > would probably fit... > The Silva warden and the ecoterrorist could be adapted fairly easily. The NATIVE ecoterrorist would need to be completely reworked to remove the native aspects, and the wardens are aparently unique to poseidon, arising out of the GEO's personel shortage there > I've been deeply traumatised and am now on strong sedatives due to > your constant belligerance. (I have been told I come across as a > sarcastic git by email :-)). Oh, nooooo, you don't come across as at allll sarcastic :) ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:54 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Luke Walker wrote: > but that is because Poseidon is a big part of Earth's history > If a sister WoH game was created Poseidon would still be a huge > part of the game. How so? for 90% of the population of the earth in 2199 poseidon is probably no more relevent to tham than outer space is to people today. A new frontier none of them are probably ever going to see that occasionally is the source of new technology that they can now purchase dirt side BTW, Greg, Jeff , has any decision been made on this topic? Is it pointless to discuss this or are you guys still collecting data? ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Dom Twist wrote: > I disagree, I think as is it would work quite well given a fairly > rules/stats heavy WOH MG/Source It would certainly work very well as such, for BP players. for the group of people who don't want to play on the waterworld it would make the game unmarketable. (I have to buy the rulebook for a game I don't want to play and THEN buy the book for the stuff I DO want to play in) > As long as we're keeping the systems together and not seperate > lines........which makes sense as events in both systems dramaticalt > effect the other........it makes a pretty good point of what earths > like...... two things. one, I don't get a good idea of what earth is like from the intro chapter, or the rest og the PG. two, apart from the importation of long john, which just makes a variety of biotech available for purchase, how does poseidon dramatJFIFHH}Photoshop 3.08BIMHH8BIM8BIM' 8BIMH/fflff/ff2Z5-8BIM8BIM8BIM`5Hq1@n:Dz6Es3El2Co6Br9Cs5;t7Dt7Is3@o9Ix=G5Ax3Ds:G|:D;E?P>O;OAQ@P>NBR=P>Q?P9L:N7J~9L:L;M3Iz0Bq2Gu8Kx/Bs0Gv2Dv7Jx5Hr:K{:M{-Bl1Gr,@j-Bp,@n,?g&>e'?g)?g,@k0Bn/Cq6Gw2Ew3Ix6J{1Ey5Iy2Ev1Du3Hx9K?O;O6Iv:Ky5Hr3Hp6Hw6I{:N;L:M5H|2Ex0Cs1Dr-An/Bq-Cq*?i+@l+Bl*>i+>k 8ff^sUcb3T7[`mytzwttS[];JJ;9COv}VlwDwOAHG2/*Bh3Z\V>SDChVSkILp6)=Y&:s/Am-Ap3Dw/Br0Br/?r,@r%8pDSbDNK>1I92C/:67Eu$]M"_T1Tf5Bp2Co'^V/Nhl70Se9Bu*ZY/Pb"lH5`d?B$dS"bP*gTCODR>P>NAP>PCRAP>O=N=N;L=P:M:M=N9L~2Hy1Cp6Iz6K|9K{3Iy/Bh3Cm2Js9M|2Hp->i/Bp1Ep8Kx,Cq/Bm,Ak,?k+Ak,Bo2Cr/Bp-Cn5Du8K~3I2Dw-Er6Gu7Iw;KGY;M7Iu6Gp1Gr9Lz8Jr3Em6Ix;N:M;L8K}2Hz5Dw3Gw0Es,Bo-@m/Al*?m)@k'@r8EqZbb"I*ETPh`tdnI`]?VB)H&)I"$]:8hP2Z@&V-07,J3U01I2$Z)9aDZ_N5$ &%&& / 7A 1 " %!5ZSn3Eq'bS-Z]*U\9>~6As&ZT0Nf'XV*]V19r-X^1Vc,Q_$cOHH3]p-e`+ceDHAMGTAQ>P@O9LBQ>O;MAR=N9M?M:M=N8I}6Ix6Iy2Dx3Hx/Cr)@l,@b-Ah5Hu9Jw7Iv/Dl3Gt+?j0Ak0Es1Es2Ev-Aj-Cq/Bp2Ex2Hx6J|2Hx0Ev3Eu3Gt3Gu3Gx5Hx9LDRET;N3Hs8Jt6Iv8Jv5Go0Bh5Em7Iz6J7K8K5L3Ew2Ew,Br0Ev0Cn0Br1@p%At@C_9@/+9:GJSpdy'TNEIXXOae&I!1]V8gCJLQXI>?%G" B?b98ZCVZPBG1CM`nt|MSdRYkipzHOa8%E-&$'++@71Hpb2Gp"iE$iN%iL$jE$lJ'hKeA[@ `?c?V?c8 _D^B gA$bHaD!_I!jGi?:VyJR@M;P?P=P;L>Q@Q=P;M9K8L~;L}9K;L8Jz-Ds,Bp2Gv3Ev1Dm+?e1Do5Ix2It5Gp-An/Bp0Cn2Du+Ao5Ht9Jy5G{7J};N2Dv0Ew1Dr/@n-Ai/Cn*>i2Gx9M;K{AQEX=L6Hp8Hs1Hq6Eq2Ej5Gp1Ce6Ek:N|5Et8I8K8K7J~3Gu2Dt3Ix-Br-Cu'?s_[i]VdISYQf_= Qhb5I?&K5-T7Ykk~oytjYGYD)C'AMHJtm$* >LXdX_m>H\elxGPbPYhKUb2;S =&=&5)%*,*=/+;i^,>k$2S*7]&KCD,R1Bj>O;Oz7Iq2En7Ht>Mw9Hs6Jt1Co6Dz?PAN:OES@R@RETDTAQAP?S;M=N@O;M=N9K|8L7Ky0Bt6I{3Jx-Dr+@h1Ch/Bh0Cj/Do2Er0Go,Cr0Ds3Hy2Hy5Hx8J~6J2Gw/Co-Ao1Dq2Dt3Du3Eq0Cp,Bq0An:Lz7I~=NETEX;Q8Kt2Gq7Jx;Kw2Bi1El1Cl7Gp6Hn7Jr6Jr2Gt8K:J6K7K3Hy-Cr,Cz2@b~tyu~sm@SLoqnq`j~J`OLbHZ`i\mgnUU6Q/h[T^cJ6M"vtq\N@CG5 ')5-1/8:%E67E=@=75H3+>se&5S  :lgfb_f"I1Dp2?g6Do2Ep8Hr2Cl1Aq8Hv6Gz6Dx8G{=MAPETBRDTCSIVDTBQAP=N:L=N>N=N8Gz5Hx7Ix5Hz1Ev3Gw/Cn3Eu1Gq)?h3Dk-Cg0Dk0Gs+@j1Cr2Ix/Dq2Ds5I|0Gt2Hw,Ar2Du2Hu,Ak0Cm1Do/Dq5Gw6Jx;K~8J{;METDU?R:Jy5Iv3Gm7Jt2Dq6Gq8Iu5Gm6Dl2Do7Iq9Ir6Jt6K}3Hy;M8M8J*@z>ROxuz&\7|nsLZbcq|qvH0i_m[sekkq[bGQ[ArV[/D,=E;[v[PfJ*5_ 0%="" !"% $ +!, - /;?+0%B:[2-?qe*9\)1n&O/Cn-@g8Is7Jr3Jo7Hs/Ci3Hr=O5Iu7Jx7Jx8NEU?RATCV@O@S>QBP=P;N=P>P:L6Ix5Jy=L~5K~3Hs1Hv2Gq9Kz8Lx+Ci/Al,Ah/Ep1Ct1Dq5Hx:M|8K|3Iy1Gs3Es/Es7Ix3Hx-Dr'?k2Ds2Es1Du6Ix8M>Q>N>OAREVEU0Gs9Lx:Ky1Gp3Gn2Gl5Hr6Ir1Eh5Co3Cn/Cj1Dl3Eq6Ly1Gs3Gx8M)HqnrptrfdMhB}an|VcgorBYV)S1nwp^gbYX^}?teYIU? :>h6;h=ER`'Z '0)35=z&/w8?x+3v3;x28{/5}EMx>N|12O;6I%!/mf)9` [*L/Cq2Eo6Ju8Il5Eo:N|;Lz1Bp7Ju1Gv6Jy;L~8Jx@P?R=QBQBQ=O@P>S;N8L@P>P8K|9O8L5Ky:K6Ix1Ex:N~8J|9K6K}9K~;P7J5Gu3Iv0Et5Ev2Ev5Gs7Hx1Gu-Ds*Al1Ev1Er0An2Jx6Hw3Gw8J}:K@R9M=PDT@R9K;O~8Jy8Hv7Lx6Is6Gq2In5Iq1Dk1En7Go1Cg5Gp1Cl6Gk7Jt5Ht+@zCQejj{^xqa_mpqPYcdencd~Kx=ZqVQcZhhmdTJCV6_RJYz6Zv?et]\fJ8J}/Q 0 !0qzpzd{f$Xi&"JE@K!)tj*:_$&8)':GpYRLA+A3Jt3Es7Lw6Lq8Kx:MyAQ{AQ~7O~>P:Ix;O?R=N@O9N=MCR>P;P=N:L>O;J|;M=P=K}:N8I|@Q7Jx8K|;N:P:L}?M5K{8K{6Iw,Dm*Al1Er+Bm+Bm2Gt1Gt*Am5Gv1Er2Gx5Ix3Iy2Gw6K|9L};M};M}>O=NCR@TAS>RBR;O1Gp5Gs0En2En7Hr:It9Kx6Gm1El3Eo1Ej2Ck2Dk7Ip6Hr8MbYbYe_=LKSsfUbU'Y2DISdfxKQQ%T*8ZDbkpVOMk`QAR0G'*DSXJLu@*QL9L,:^ ,"; 6 ! -)*)! kH]TIQ3/L*'8]_w+:]6!!A:1U0P3Iv3Gn;Ov9Js7Jt8Mx9Nw@T?Q>O:N:M}ARCT?M=PATAR:L@P@S?P=P9M|9K9K~9M>O~>O8L:M=P9J{=O=N:K{:N:J?N~7Jx2Dp+@n0Dk/Cl,Cp0Dp2Gs2Eu6Ix3Hx0Gx7Kz6Jy5Jx9L9J{>OBQBS:OETHYAP1Iu5Hx2Gr-Ai/Bl-Aj'>c/Bm5Is3El1Hs9Lu8Js2Go7Ks5Ep+Cq>Ec"=2';0)S5;&e2 C,='fgY/?b@'I'NQ-9fX+%c"d,>o6K~+=a!0s BP does. > > Aquaforms, yes. Cetaceans - eh, there are still lots of 'em on Earth, > > and they are a sentient race. While they won't be as important as > they > > are on Poseidon, they're still around and still a valid choice for a > > PC. > > They are a doable PC race on earth, but we have had discussions on this > list about how to involve fins in adventures on poseidon, and it's 97% > ocean. A Sol game, which may take the PC's to Kansas, the Himalayas, > Siberia, and the moon and belt, is going to be even harder to acomodate > fins. True. They're still around, though, they're still part of the setting (if a considerably less important part than on Poseidon.) > > Why? There are probably more mongrels on Poseidon than on Earth. > > I Reread the section on mongrels, your right. I would think that there > would be a greater diversity of Hybrids on Earth however, and that > should be represented. I don't think there's a need for more Hybrids, although more Genies would probably fit... > > Half the archetypes and most of the backgrounds and training packages > > are perfectly fine for Earth. I'd estimate that it's closer to 150+ > > pages almost totally relevant, and a lot of the rest might have some > > bearing on a WoH game. > > I count 2 out of 9 archetypes that would work well in Sol, the Gangster > and the GEO Peacekeeper, the rest are fins (see my comments above) or > survival/wilderness types. The GEO Marshal mabey would work, I have > theimpression that marshals are a lot less of a pressence on earth. The Silva warden and the ecoterrorist could be adapted fairly easily. > Of the training packages, my problem isn't that they are poseidon > specific, but that they are too generic, especially the origin and > background packages. for a Sol based campaign there should be a LOT > more variety in the possible backgrounds. I recently made up 8 pregen > characters who were all supposed to be from earth, and felt hampered by > the lack of choices in skill packages. A sol system book should include > many more training packages than the BP PG, and the ones that are there > should probably be expanded Agreed. > > A separate PG would be nice, I agree. Hell, I'd love seperate GEO, > > Incorporate and Native's Players guides. However, I'm not sure if Yet > > Another Cyberpunk Game would sell well enough to justify printing two > > big books. > > the major complaint have have seen and heard about BP is the setting, > most of the people I hav etalked to are not interested in playing a > waterworld game. But that necessarily doesn't mean they want to play a cyberpunk/near future/hard sci-fi game. I suspect a lot of the people who would already be playing such a game would have picked up one of the other games already... > A WoH supplement for BP certainly CAN be done, I just don't think it's > the best way to do it. > > As a last note, I have been told I come across as belligerent and > argumentative in eMails, I don't intend to. this is just an interesting > and I think important discussion (seeing as Jeff and Greg are both on > this list) I've been deeply traumatised and am now on strong sedatives due to your constant belligerance. (I have been told I come across as a sarcastic git by email :-)). > Troy Gustavel Gar http://www.mytholder.f2s.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:50 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - B-PIP update Yup......one of the reasons I have to post any........of course time is the major one! DomT ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:53 PM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - B-PIP update > Hi all, > > In order to encourage more people to help with B-PIP, > I've started a second contest. This contest will be > a monthly drawing. For every 100 points that a person > scores, they will get 1 entry in the drawing. The > prize will be 1 BP book. > > I've started this second contest as I've noticed > that 6 people have signed up, but have yet to add > anything. Looking at the current leader (with over > 5000 points), I can understand why it would be > intimidating to try and compete. > > Mike Z > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:16 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Without repeating all the comments so far I think, as I have said, that WoH should not be a seperate game. I do not think it would competitive, it would spilt fanbase and spread resources thin through duplication. I think that the game should remain Blue Planet and focus on Poseidon. However for flexibility a WoH sourcebook which could be used with just the PG to create a game based on Earth would be efficient as it would allow for those who did not wish to include Posiedon in their games and those who did without risking the main line of products. I agree with Gareth that a majority of the PG is relevant to Earth (probably around 150+ pages). Sure there is a Poseidon focus but that is because Poseidon is a big part of Earth's history and an even bigger part of Poseidon's history (funnily enough - oh and a big part of Blue Planet the RPG). The MG is also 250+ pages. I was thinking that WoH would be 150 pages of setting (larger than your average supplement with 100 pages of rules, character stuff and technology info to supplement whats in the PG (and FM). As said I don't think that WoH should be a seperate line or even a second focus to Blue Planet but by granting the above flexibility it does accomodate a slightly larger fan base and gives Earth some of the justice it deserves. I don't think that we should get a second line of supplements covering tech on Earth, Incorporates on Earth etc to mirror Poseidon supplements. That again would stall the progression of the game by covering stale duplicated material. If the guys at FFG were to create a hard scifi game based on Earth IMHO they should not use Blue Planet as the setting as it is geared towards Poseidon. If a sister WoH game was created Poseidon would still be a huge part of the game. Those people who would not play in a waterworld game would still have problems with a seperate WoH sister game (unless you redo a lot of the setting and slide Poseidon into the background - and if you do this then IMHO it would be better to design a new game) I would be interested to hear what Jeff and Greg have to say. -----Original Message----- From: Troy Gustavel [SMTP:troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2001 08:24 To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > This post was also written and sent before I got Troy's post. And > next week's winning lotto numbers are 7, 14, 33, 9 and mauve. No it's not, its 5, 14, 28, 42, and chartruse :) > Oh, a rewrite of the player's guide to make it Earth-specific would > be very nice - but that means you're going to have to print *two* > books instead of one, and you'll duplicate a lot of the mechanics > from the BP Players Guide in the hypothetical WoH Players Guide. Not > a great plan, imho. If it doubles (or more) your fan base, it probably would be > Aquaforms, yes. Cetaceans - eh, there are still lots of 'em on Earth, > and they are a sentient race. While they won't be as important as they > are on Poseidon, they're still around and still a valid choice for a > PC. They are a doable PC race on earth, but we have had discussions on this list about how to involve fins in adventures on poseidon, and it's 97% ocean. A Sol game, which may take the PC's to Kansas, the Himalayas, Siberia, and the moon and belt, is going to be even harder to acomodate fins. > Why? There are probably more mongrels on Poseidon than on Earth. I Reread the section on mongrels, your right. I would think that there would be a greater diversity of Hybrids on Earth however, and that should be represented. > Hmm. I personally feel it's a lot more. Poseidon stuff is relevant to > Earth, 'cos Poseidon - well, mainly Long John - is so important to > Earth. Exactly, all they need to do is mention the departure of the colony ships and then that this new wonder mineral is being imported, info on how long john is mined, what the incorp are doing on poseidonand how the GEO is handling the planet aren't very relevent to Sol > Half the archetypes and most of the backgrounds and training packages > are perfectly fine for Earth. I'd estimate that it's closer to 150+ > pages almost totally relevant, and a lot of the rest might have some > bearing on a WoH game. I count 2 out of 9 archetypes that would work well in Sol, the Gangster and the GEO Peacekeeper, the rest are fins (see my comments above) or survival/wilderness types. The GEO Marshal mabey would work, I have theimpression that marshals are a lot less of a pressence on earth. Of the training packages, my problem isn't that they are poseidon specific, but that they are too generic, especially the origin and background packages. for a Sol based campaign there should be a LOT more variety in the possible backgrounds. I recently made up 8 pregen characters who were all supposed to be from earth, and felt hampered by the lack of choices in skill packages. A sol system book should include many more training packages than the BP PG, and the ones that are there should probably be expanded also, all of the flavor text side bars in the PG would need to go. I estimated up to 75 pages of the BP PG would transfer, 6 pages of background, 13 of game rules, 15 of timeline. That makes 34. With the other 16 to 41 pages I allocated being used to cover character creation, the character races, training packages, and the character profile (that last could be a big chunk. > A separate PG would be nice, I agree. Hell, I'd love seperate GEO, > Incorporate and Native's Players guides. However, I'm not sure if Yet > Another Cyberpunk Game would sell well enough to justify printing two > big books. the major complaint have have seen and heard about BP is the setting, most of the people I hav etalked to are not interested in playing a waterworld game. detailing the Sol system as supplements to BP will do NOTHING to attract those people to the game, whereas marketing WoH as a seperate game will, and may spill over into increased sales for BP as well. A WoH supplement for BP certainly CAN be done, I just don't think it's the best way to do it. As a last note, I have been told I come across as belligerent and argumentative in eMails, I don't intend to. this is just an interesting and I think important discussion (seeing as Jeff and Greg are both on this list) ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - B-PIP update Hi all, In order to encourage more people to help with B-PIP, I've started a second contest. This contest will be a monthly drawing. For every 100 points that a person scores, they will get 1 entry in the drawing. The prize will be 1 BP book. I've started this second contest as I've noticed that 6 people have signed up, but have yet to add anything. Looking at the current leader (with over 5000 points), I can understand why it would be intimidating to try and compete. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > This post was also written and sent before I got Troy's post. And > next week's winning lotto numbers are 7, 14, 33, 9 and mauve. No it's not, its 5, 14, 28, 42, and chartruse :) > Oh, a rewrite of the player's guide to make it Earth-specific would > be very nice - but that means you're going to have to print *two* > books instead of one, and you'll duplicate a lot of the mechanics > from the BP Players Guide in the hypothetical WoH Players Guide. Not > a great plan, imho. If it doubles (or more) your fan base, it probably would be > Aquaforms, yes. Cetaceans - eh, there are still lots of 'em on Earth, > and they are a sentient race. While they won't be as important as they > are on Poseidon, they're still around and still a valid choice for a > PC. They are a doable PC race on earth, but we have had discussions on this list about how to involve fins in adventures on poseidon, and it's 97% ocean. A Sol game, which may take the PC's to Kansas, the Himalayas, Siberia, and the moon and belt, is going to be even harder to acomodate fins. > Why? There are probably more mongrels on Poseidon than on Earth. I Reread the section on mongrels, your right. I would think that there would be a greater diversity of Hybrids on Earth however, and that should be represented. > Hmm. I personally feel it's a lot more. Poseidon stuff is relevant to > Earth, 'cos Poseidon - well, mainly Long John - is so important to > Earth. Exactly, all they need to do is mention the departure of the colony ships and then that this new wonder mineral is being imported, info on how long john is mined, what the incorp are doing on poseidonand how the GEO is handling the planet aren't very relevent to Sol > Half the archetypes and most of the backgrounds and training packages > are perfectly fine for Earth. I'd estimate that it's closer to 150+ > pages almost totally relevant, and a lot of the rest might have some > bearing on a WoH game. I count 2 out of 9 archetypes that would work well in Sol, the Gangster and the GEO Peacekeeper, the rest are fins (see my comments above) or survival/wilderness types. The GEO Marshal mabey would work, I have theimpression that marshals are a lot less of a pressence on earth. Of the training packages, my problem isn't that they are poseidon specific, but that they are too generic, especially the origin and background packages. for a Sol based campaign there should be a LOT more variety in the possible backgrounds. I recently made up 8 pregen characters who were all supposed to be from earth, and felt hampered by the lack of choices in skill packages. A sol system book should include many more training packages than the BP PG, and the ones that are there should probably be expanded also, all of the flavor text side bars in the PG would need to go. I estimated up to 75 pages of the BP PG would transfer, 6 pages of background, 13 of game rules, 15 of timeline. That makes 34. With the other 16 to 41 pages I allocated being used to cover character creation, the character races, training packages, and the character profile (that last could be a big chunk. > A separate PG would be nice, I agree. Hell, I'd love seperate GEO, > Incorporate and Native's Players guides. However, I'm not sure if Yet > Another Cyberpunk Game would sell well enough to justify printing two > big books. the major complaint have have seen and heard about BP is the setting, most of the people I hav etalked to are not interested in playing a waterworld game. detailing the Sol system as supplements to BP will do NOTHING to attract those people to the game, whereas marketing WoH as a seperate game will, and may spill over into increased sales for BP as well. A WoH supplement for BP certainly CAN be done, I just don't think it's the best way to do it. As a last note, I have been told I come across as belligerent and argumentative in eMails, I don't intend to. this is just an interesting and I think important discussion (seeing as Jeff and Greg are both on this list) ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:27 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt And I of course wrote a post arguing just as Gar...has done-----before I saw Gar's. I hope I raised a few extra points tho! DomT > Tro wrote > > Incidentally, my last post on this topic was written and sent before I > > got Gareth's post. > > This post was also written and sent before I got Troy's post. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Troy:- > But most of the players guide needs to be rewritten to make it easily > work off of poseidon. I disagree, I think as is it would work quite well given a fairly rules/stats heavy WOH MG/Source > The entire introduction chapter, As long as we're keeping the systems together and not seperate lines........which makes sense as events in both systems dramaticalt effect the other........it makes a pretty good point of what earths like...... >character creation could do without > the aquaforms Given the effects of the Blight......a lot of food production may well be happening at Sea.......so Aquaforms Mods might get quite popular on Earth........but yah..as a race I agree. >and the cetaceans (who > will have even less to do on earth adventures) Disagree. Given the points about food production etc we've been told that newcomer Cetaceans mostly have Peackeeper/Law Enforcement/Incorp/National Security backgrounds on Poisden........well figures that there's a lot of 'em huh? Why? Because Earth's Oceans are still the biggest bit of the Old Dirt ball and after exploitation/blight of land where 90%+ of the resources are going to be. The Idea of a Spring board campaing starting on earth and moving to Poisden is a bigge. Probably worth a really Big Adventure/Campaign Book that does just that.......there's enourmous scope for Role-Playing in such a campaign. > WoH would need a completely new set of archetypes, the character > profile chapter could use some editing for sol based games, Certainly > but the hardware and > bioware chapters should be redone as alot of that equipment is > radically less important on earth (MHD harnesses frex) Only about 6 > pages of the future history chapter deal with earth and the entire on > the frontier chapter has no bearing on sol system. True.......but nothing WoH couldnt cope with........especially if it had some good player handout sheets/downloadable PDF's I think you're estimate of how much work needs doing is over heavy......I think WoH can cope with out a new PG. > The real question is whether it is a good idea to try and keep the > lines seperate after that. Is it a good idea to have a seperate tech > book for WoH AND BP? Should the incorp sourcebook deal with both > systems, or have seperate books? Under no circumstances should the lines seperate............the feel of blue planet is excellent.........WoH should be a contrast to BP but PART of the experiance! At least thats my view! > I guess if WoH had 'ALTERNATE CAMPAIGN SETTING' on it it > > might grab the non-BP players Brian:- > Why does WoH have to be an "alternate setting"? In my mind Earth and > Poseidon together make up a complete setting A good point Brian > (a) I like BP, so I don't need an "alternate setting". > (b) Have they stopped developing BP in favour of the "alternate setting"? > (c) They are spreading themselves too thin with all this "alternate" stuff, > so none of their settings are worth playing. Three more..........my comments were 'this is how you could push the product' if a wider market was desired than the one already there for BP > I would be happy to see WoH as simply another expansion book which adds to > the current setting, rather than competes with it. I agree. I think that BP ALREADY competes with Cyberpunk/SciFi games and if we dont have them already pushing out a 'World of Hurt' RPG isnt going to make them leave CP, SR, THS, Rifts, various Manga based games etc. Did any other 'alternate' cyberpunk/scifi supp ever make a big impression on a existing system.........Delta Green is the only one I can think off.........and great grand daddy Call of Cthulhu aint yer average game......... DomT *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:55 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? I think the main factor is going to Game System not who's science is harder. I LOVE the Traveller setting, wallow in the Illumanati mythology and really like a lot of SJG's backgrounds. I also have already stated my liking of cross-genra game systems.....However I wont touch a single game system with GURPS written on it (although I raid supplements for background/ideas).......I used to be a member of a role-play club for which GURPS was its bible (LURPS:- Lancaster University Role Play Soc, name sez it all! Hi to any LURPer's out there!) and I LOATH it's system. Thats a personal opnion but I know lots of people who will avoid GURPS or d20 for simmilar reasons. Others will flock to it and more power to us all as a result. BP has a pretty neat system......some pretty big holes here and there but its a rules lite system and I wanted a system to GM quickly and easily with out paging through a zillion source books for rule 29b.........I alread have plenty of systems like that when I want to number crunch. Mostly I like to ignore rules and GM by feel.....some of my recent 'futuristic' games got bogged down on rules points........by players who arnt rules lawyers at all....just genuinely confused. One thing I hope projects like B-Pip will resolve is the terminal....which damn source book IS that peice of equipment in?!?!? That games with LOTS of supllements suffer from .........Unified equipment tables/stats on PDF would be very very usefull resource as the BP supplements grow. DomT *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:18 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Tro wrote > Incidentally, my last post on this topic was written and sent before I > got Gareth's post. This post was also written and sent before I got Troy's post. And next week's winning lotto numbers are 7, 14, 33, 9 and mauve. > Needless to say I disagree with him Heresy. > But most of the players guide needs to be rewritten to make it easily > work off of poseidon. Oh, a rewrite of the player's guide to make it Earth-specific would be very nice - but that means you're going to have to print *two* books instead of one, and you'll duplicate a lot of the mechanics from the BP Players Guide in the hypothetical WoH Players Guide. Not a great plan, imho. > The entire introduction chapter, Yep. > character creation could do without > the aquaforms (who were engeneered for poseidon) and the cetaceans (who > will have even less to do on earth adventures) Aquaforms, yes. Cetaceans - eh, there are still lots of 'em on Earth, and they are a sentient race. While they won't be as important as they are on Poseidon, they're still around and still a valid choice for a PC. >and several races added > (such as the mongrels from FM) Why? There are probably more mongrels on Poseidon than on Earth. > Sol system needs alot more sol-specific > background packages and doesn't need any of the native and colonial > packages from BP, the skill list MIGHT need to be expanded somewhat, > WoH would need a completely new set of archetypes, the character > profile chapter could use some editing for sol based games, The games > system chapter is fine as is (a whole 12 pages), but the hardware and > bioware chapters should be redone as alot of that equipment is > radically less important on earth (MHD harnesses frex) Only about 6 > pages of the future history chapter deal with earth and the entire on > the frontier chapter has no bearing on sol system. The timeline covers > both systems fairly well. > > I would estimate that, out of about 250 pages in the PG, only 50-75 > pages of content apply to the sol system well. Hmm. I personally feel it's a lot more. Poseidon stuff is relevant to Earth, 'cos Poseidon - well, mainly Long John - is so important to Earth. Half the archetypes and most of the backgrounds and training packages are perfectly fine for Earth. I'd estimate that it's closer to 150+ pages almost totally relevant, and a lot of the rest might have some bearing on a WoH game. >That tells me that a > seperate PG for WoH is appropriate, as well as a Pure setting book that > goes into more detail. A separate PG would be nice, I agree. Hell, I'd love seperate GEO, Incorporate and Native's Players guides. However, I'm not sure if Yet Another Cyberpunk Game would sell well enough to justify printing two big books. > The real question is whether it is a good idea to try and keep the > lines seperate after that. Is it a good idea to have a seperate tech > book for WoH AND BP? Eh. I'd just do a Fluid Mechanics too, with less survival gear and more general stuff. > Should the incorp sourcebook deal with both > systems, or have seperate books? Depends on how FFG handle it. You could approach the Incorps in several ways. > Troy Gustavel Gar http://www.mytholder.f2s.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:41 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Natural Selection in the UK :) Mine have already been droppped into a jungle clearing, with the intent of making their way on foot to a inacessable crash site.....to search for any survivors and find out the crash cause....and clear a LZ for their support. Land Lizards in the clearing? Rival Incorperates sighted by Satalite? I'll think of something........ DomT > > --- thazar@globalnet.co.uk wrote: > > > Likewise........My BP gaming session is Tommorow > > night...... > > Oh well maybe I can stall them........ > > My game's tonight. And I am stalling my lot with a > random subplot (mutant seagull crud mistaken by > sniffers for nitrate explosive residue leading > paranoid party to entirely disassemble plane ;) > > So they'll actually get their jungle time next week, > (after faultly reassembly leads to plane crash) > giving me the weekend to inhale NS and adjust my > world accordingly :) > > Andrew > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 1:54 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > Looking at the Player's Guide - > there actually isn't that much Poseidon-only material in the book. If Incidentally, my last post on this topic was written and sent before I got Gareth's post. Needless to say I disagree with him ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 1:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - test I was having trouble with my mail this morning and a couple posts I made have not shown up yet, this is just a test to see if THIS message posts at all ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 12:00 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt But most of the players guide needs to be rewritten to make it easily work off of poseidon. The entire introduction chapter, character creation could do without the aquaforms (who were engeneered for poseidon) and the cetaceans (who will have even less to do on earth adventures) and several races added (such as the mongrels from FM) Sol system needs alot more sol-specific background packages and doesn't need any of the native and colonial packages from BP, the skill list MIGHT need to be expanded somewhat, WoH would need a completely new set of archetypes, the character profile chapter could use some editing for sol based games, The games system chapter is fine as is (a whole 12 pages), but the hardware and bioware chapters should be redone as alot of that equipment is radically less important on earth (MHD harnesses frex) Only about 6 pages of the future history chapter deal with earth and the entire on the frontier chapter has no bearing on sol system. The timeline covers both systems fairly well. I would estimate that, out of about 250 pages in the PG, only 50-75 pages of content apply to the sol system well. That tells me that a seperate PG for WoH is appropriate, as well as a Pure setting book that goes into more detail. The real question is whether it is a good idea to try and keep the lines seperate after that. Is it a good idea to have a seperate tech book for WoH AND BP? Should the incorp sourcebook deal with both systems, or have seperate books? that's my point of view ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Andrew Sturman [andrew_b_sturman@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:49 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Deckplans HI All --- Jeb Boyt wrote: > Ok, it took > http://www.rigmuseum.com/ Thanks, Jeb. Those are great! I'll be using the Mr Charlie deckplans for my next Incorporate rig raid. Andrew ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian McNeilly [brian.mcneilly@altus-solutions.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:36 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > I guess if WoH had 'ALTERNATE CAMPAIGN SETTING' on it it > might grab the non-BP players.....and BP players will at > least read the blurb which lets you make the pitch for it > being the 'Earth Book' for BP. Why does WoH have to be an "alternate setting"? In my mind Earth and Poseidon together make up a complete setting, since there is interaction between the two, and almost all of what goes on on Poseidon is influenced by the people that have come from earth. If the product is advertised as an alternate setting, some negative thoughts could cross the minds of potential customers: (a) I like BP, so I don't need an "alternate setting". (b) Have they stopped developing BP in favour of the "alternate setting"? (c) They are spreading themselves too thin with all this "alternate" stuff, so none of their settings are worth playing. I would be happy to see WoH as simply another expansion book which adds to the current setting, rather than competes with it. Cheers, Brian Brian McNeilly, Software Designer Altus Solutions Incorporated Suite 250, 4190 Still Creek Drive Burnaby, BC, Canada, V5C 6C6 mailto:brian.mcneilly@altus-solutions.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:04 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Deckplans Ok, it took me awhile, but here are a couple of links to web pages and pictures for oil rigs that have been converted into petroleum industry museums. Jeb http://www.oceanstaroec.com/ http://www.rigmuseum.com/ ----Original Message Follows---- From: Andrew Sturman Reply-To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com To: bplist Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Deckplans Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:58:41 +0100 (BST) HI All While I'm thinking about ship plans, would a page of links to on-line ships and rigs deckplans be of use? I for one find real-world plans a very useful resource when GMing. Perhaps we could put the list on stormsurge or somewhere similar? Here's what 10 min with Google gave me: 2 modern oceanographic research ships http://www.sio.ucsd.edu/shipsked/Melville/Deckplans.html http://www.sio.ucsd.edu/shipsked/NewHorizon/Deckplans.html (the Scripps site also has lots of other good info, and photos of their Flip-ship http://www-mpl.ucsd.edu/facilities/flip/flip_combo.html) long-range dive charter ship http://www.ioexplorer.com/IOShip_Decks.htm dive charter schooner http://www.kararu.com/vessel/deckplans.shtml Poor old Titanic http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/deckplans/deckplans.shtml A commercial service that will send you paper plans at $30 per plan. Large database of plans but none online, good if you have something specific in mind. http://www.taubmansonline.com/index.html Any additions? I could really use some oil-rig plans. Andrew ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:12 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A new character generator > Ok, after advertising it, I didn't want to post it to > the list directly (150k zipped) but would someone like > to host it? Mike? If you email it directly to me ( chalz@earthlink.net ) I'll gladly mirror it on my site. It would, if I recall the directory structure correctly, be at http://www.chalz.net/bp/ .. I would also gladly mirror any other tools and toys and tidbits. Similarly, if I'm missing anything from http://www.chalz.net/bp/links.html please let me know. Thanks! --Charles *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:07 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A new character generator Hi, I've upload Andrew's excel file. It is in the links section of my web page. www.io.com/~tippy/blue_planet Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:51 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? Woah... Before we start getting into an argument over whose science is harder (*pauses for a moment to reflect on the Freudism there*) lets remember a few things: 1) The definitions of not only SF, but of its various sub-branches are under constant....discussion within Fandom. 2) GURPS THS has yet to be published. There is little information available to the public unless you are playtesting it. 3) There are non-GMs who read this list, so can we keep the spoilers to a minimum. I know a few of my players have expressed interest in joining this list and I really rather not have them know the secrets of the wormhole, ect.... That said, the argument that THS is more "realistic" than BP is pure hogwash. Both are based on real science and the authors have done their research, but there are many elements in both games that really push the boundries of science. In THS, I would call ghostcomps and mircoblack holes to be really pushing the boundries of science. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:42 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? The other problem with 'Hard SF' is that Hard SF is inherently impossible more than a few years in the future. Consider... every year, a certain percent of development is completely unpredictable. If it's 1%, after 10 years, (1- (.99 ^10)) 10% of technology could not have been predicted. After 100 years, 63% of technology could not have been predicted. Thus, any story set more than 10 years in the future can only gloss over some of the technology. If it speculates on the unpredictable 10%, it is not Hard SF. It _could_ happen to be correct... but Hard SF demands, by definition, compatibility with present expectation. Therefore, over time, Hard SF becomes more and more impossible. 100 years from now, life will fundamentally involve technology we can't reliably predict. Thus, any SF in that age will necessarily be speculative. IMO, SF set more than a decade or two in the future isn't hard science, but it can be considered Hard SF in other characteristics (style, atmosphere, etc) -=Will (In a lawyerly mood today) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Andrew Sturman [andrew_b_sturman@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:36 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Natural Selection in the UK :) --- thazar@globalnet.co.uk wrote: > > Likewise........My BP gaming session is Tommorow > night...... > Oh well maybe I can stall them........ My game's tonight. And I am stalling my lot with a random subplot (mutant seagull crud mistaken by sniffers for nitrate explosive residue leading paranoid party to entirely disassemble plane ;) So they'll actually get their jungle time next week, (after faultly reassembly leads to plane crash) giving me the weekend to inhale NS and adjust my world accordingly :) Andrew ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Utiel@df.ufscar.br Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:29 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? Yes you are correct a true Hard Science fiction is based in our science and not in speculations about the science in a distant future. For example: today we have a new theory in physics "The M-Theory" and with this theory we have a new model for the origin of the universe. In this theory all the speculation made about wormholes can be considered wrong because they are based in a wrong theory: General relativity. If we don't know how will be the progress of science in a few years how we can speculate about the science in XXII? And for you what is the difference between a Hard Science Fiction and Science Fiction? About GURPS a like the system and in my opnion it is much better then the Synergy system. Wagner "David R. Crowell" escreveu: > But BP does have IMHO faster, better mechanichs, and if you add GURPS Space, > Aliens, etc. It would be easy to add that to Transhuman, not to mention the > bioengineering in both premises is stretching the bounds of Science. Who > says Hard SF can't have aliens, artificial worm holes, and Long John? If you > want to be a real nit picker about it all Hard SF is a contradiction in > terms because it is Fiction and therefor violates the reality of hard > science by its very existance (consider this statement as a friendly playing > of Devil's Advocate, not as a a flame). If I understand your argument > correctly true Hard SF must contain nothing not already known to science. > Not living (yet) in a world where manipulation of thehuman genome is the > norm, I can not speak to which game has the more realistic socio-political > background. Not to mention both games have their share of unrealistic tech, > there are a number of technological toys in the transhuman playtest files > that strike me as everybit as "unrealistic" as BP's aliens, artificial > wormhole and Long Johm. If you want to know what the unrealistic tech in > Transhuman is you will have to either wait for its release or become a > Pyramid subscriber, I am not going to abuse SJG's copyright by posting it > here. But trust me, there is a lot of tech that does not currently exist, > and some that seems unlikely to exist with in the timeframe posited. So I am > not sure that Transhuman wil be more "realistic" than BP. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:27 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A new character generator In a message dated Tue, 8 May 2001 8:06:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Andrew Sturman writes: <> I can host it. Just email it to me at : mike.zebrowski@avistainc.com Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 9:26 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? I think Transhuman games, by definition, can't be true 'Hard' SF, in the sense that they talk about science and technology beyond conception. It could have the _style_ of hard sf... Most of the arguments about SF definitions arise, IMO, from different elements of a genre. There is the style (he clambered into his suit and touched the seals) and the science (the suit's three layers contained a circulating sealant which would repair any reasonable holes). There are also elements of atmosphere (hard sf being spaceships and engineers), taste (hard SF solves problems by applying rational solutions) and so on. Each genre varies in these details. So, often, an argument focuses on a few parts that don't match a stereotypical genre convention. 'Hey, this Hard SF is about politics and love! It isn't Hard, really!' Blue Planet has a few 'soft' elements, such as Long John. Some of the particulars of wormholes... well, it's debateable. It's not super-Hard in the sense that we can't do that _now_. Genetic uplift/engineering is also a trifle softer than ultraorthodox hard SF... but not that far. The atmosphere of most Blue Planet campaigns is, well, a Western/new world SF sort of game. -=Will _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: thazar@globalnet.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:46 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Natural Selection in the UK :) >Andrew >(Who is waiting by the postbox for his copy :) Likewise........My BP gaming session is Tommorow night......and as I mentioned previously they're entering a situation where NS will be at its strongest. Argh Oh well maybe I can stall them........ DomT ------------------------------------------------ Global WebMail - Delivered by Global Internet www.global.net.uk ------------------------------------------------ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:42 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? But BP does have IMHO faster, better mechanichs, and if you add GURPS Space, Aliens, etc. It would be easy to add that to Transhuman, not to mention the bioengineering in both premises is stretching the bounds of Science. Who says Hard SF can't have aliens, artificial worm holes, and Long John? If you want to be a real nit picker about it all Hard SF is a contradiction in terms because it is Fiction and therefor violates the reality of hard science by its very existance (consider this statement as a friendly playing of Devil's Advocate, not as a a flame). If I understand your argument correctly true Hard SF must contain nothing not already known to science. Not living (yet) in a world where manipulation of thehuman genome is the norm, I can not speak to which game has the more realistic socio-political background. Not to mention both games have their share of unrealistic tech, there are a number of technological toys in the transhuman playtest files that strike me as everybit as "unrealistic" as BP's aliens, artificial wormhole and Long Johm. If you want to know what the unrealistic tech in Transhuman is you will have to either wait for its release or become a Pyramid subscriber, I am not going to abuse SJG's copyright by posting it here. But trust me, there is a lot of tech that does not currently exist, and some that seems unlikely to exist with in the timeframe posited. So I am not sure that Transhuman wil be more "realistic" than BP. I do agree that a module or suplementary background might be more resource efficient, a World of Hurt Moderators Guide could easily carry all the needed information about Earth , with standard sized sourcebook or a series depending on demand and detail for the rest of the Solar System. I am not convinced that such an MG would be more competative in the market place than a new game. I'll let the boys in marketing work that out. ----- Original Message ----- From: Utiel To: Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > There is a problem in this argument because GURPS: Transhuman will be more > realistic than BP. BP has aliens, artificial wormholes, the Long John, > etc... and this is not a true Hard Science Fiction. In August we will have > the CP2030 and the guardians of Order has the Centaurian Knights too (a > science fiction game created by David Pulver). Then is more logical to > create a module for Blue Planet than a new game. > > Wagner *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Andrew Sturman [andrew_b_sturman@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:15 AM To: bplist Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Natural Selection in the UK :) Hi All Just a note for the Uk list-members. Leisuregames.com has just said NS is in stock from tomorrow. Andrew (Who is waiting by the postbox for his copy :) ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Andrew Sturman [andrew_b_sturman@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:04 AM To: bplist Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - multi-mode watercraft HI All Following last week's vehicle discussions: One of my players is designing a multi-mode watercraft (he's a GEO Warden who wants a poacher pursuit vehicle) and inspired by http://www.se-technology.com/wig/ and http://www.ussubs.com/, wants to build a watercraft that has normal powerboat, hydrofoil, wing-in-ground-effect and submarine modes. The theory is that the WIG mode will be best for long-range, speed and fly-over of flat sandbar isles and mudreefs, the hydrofoil will be good for agile speed and maneuvering, and a limited submarine mode (down to 10m) will be excellent for stealth and storm-avoidance. So the question to the assembled list - how feasible is it, and are there any downsides you can think of (apart from cost, and the complexity of twin drives - MHD & ducted fan) Andrew ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Utiel [utiel@df.ufscar.br] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:24 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt There is a problem in this argument because GURPS: Transhuman will be more realistic than BP. BP has aliens, artificial wormholes, the Long John, etc... and this is not a true Hard Science Fiction. In August we will have the CP2030 and the guardians of Order has the Centaurian Knights too (a science fiction game created by David Pulver). Then is more logical to create a module for Blue Planet than a new game. Wagner ----- Original Message ----- From: "necrobob" To: Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Dom Twist" > Reply-To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com > Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:00:41 +0100 > >I'm definetly not in favour of a stand alone Sister game. > > Well, you're wrong, then. }-> > > >Although I can see the argument I dont see this wisdom of taking on THS, > >CP2020, Shadowrun (which will be published by MageKnight and their German > >partners) with a near(ish) future game while trying to support BP fully > >also. > > Umm...hypothetically, a World of Hurt RPG would have the advantage of being (mostly) hard-sci-fi, which should satisfy all the "we don't like it if it's not realistic" croutons out there. So it should have its own little niche, away from the more fantastic side of the cyberpunk genre. > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Andrew Sturman [andrew_b_sturman@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:02 AM To: bplist Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - A new character generator Hi All One of my players, Jo Legutko, recently crafted a very useful excel spreadsheet to speed our character generation, and has asked me to post it to the list. Features: - v2 character generation with selectable power-level. - Calculates skills from the backgrounds and profession packages selected (v1 & v2) - Adjusts skills and primary and derived attributes for biomods - calculates movement and jump range based on species and biomods - Fairly complete biomod and weapons lists (PG + FM) - Printable character sheet generated - Modifiable for new races, biomods, house-rules, etc. Limitations: -It does have a few bugs, and should be considered 'beta' ware. The author is on a month's holiday, so in the open-source spirit, any bugs found which can be fixed by you or others on the list, please do so. Otherwise, I'll pass the bug reports to her when she returns. - Being an excel macro-based product, there is always a virus risk. I've checked it, but please scan it yourselves. - No random NPC generation Current known bugs: 1) Attribute allocation is flat, i.e. 1 to 1, and not the 3 points for a +2 etc. (local house rule to simplify calculations)If someone wants to fix it to follow the PG rules feel free. 2) Weapons Long range and ROF columns confused. Ok, after advertising it, I didn't want to post it to the list directly (150k zipped) but would someone like to host it? Mike? Thanks Andrew ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: thazar@globalnet.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:41 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt >I think you could get away with releasing a Moderator's Guide for >>Earth, This would the aproach I would favour......However it means that some SERIOUS advertising would be required to alert non-BP players of its existance and function. Either that or a re-model of the Players Guide....V2.1 anyone? How are stocks of V2 PG? (I would guess the re-tooling costs would be prohibitive....besides I dont wanna loose that cover art!) Still it 'sort-off' worked for Stardrive/Alternity and of course CoC has three backgrounds as standard plus Delta-Green etc. I guess if WoH had 'ALTERNATE CAMPAIGN SETTING' on it it might grab the non-BP players.....and BP players will at least read the blurb which lets you make the pitch for it being the 'Earth Book' for BP. DomT ------------------------------------------------ Global WebMail - Delivered by Global Internet www.global.net.uk ------------------------------------------------ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.