From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 8:06 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Gustavel To: Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > > You know, I keep hearing peopel talking about GURPS Transhuman Space > like some big thing, why? GURPS settings, whether original or based on > licensed work have always sucked, why is this one being viewed as > likely to be good? I'm not saying I think GURPS Transhuman Space will be good, although the playtest files seem to show some potential. I'm just saying that it is likely to be WoH's biggest competition as the new "cyberpunk, solar system colonization, gene-punk (thanks Chaz), hard SF" RPG. IMHO, like White Wolf, GURPS *settings* have often been good, it is the writing and development that has left a sour taste. Think of it this way D&D3e is currently THE fantasy game that all others have to compete with, this has nothing to with quality,it has everything to do with name recognition and consumer awareness. GURPS Transhuman Space has many elements in common with World of Hurt. Including moving beyond cyberpunk. I personally think that marketing WoH as Cyberpunk would be a mistake. As a society we have moved on to other concerns. Genetic engineering and near space colonization and exploration as well as environmental and socio-political collapse and upheaval on Earth are more likely to resonate with the sort of people who are likely to be attracted to BP than are cyberpunk's themes of computer technology and the blending of man and machine. At least this is true if you want to attract people who aren't already gamers. Cyberpunk games always seem to devolve into hardware, the games and stories that stick in my memory have always been about people. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 7:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - BP wins best rpg of year award in France Grabbed this off rpg.net (ha, beat you Mike!) http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/press/press.3487.html ================================================================= Press release: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:10:55 At last the results of the election for the "GROG d'Or" are available: and Blue Planet (Fantasy Flight Games) is awarded the title of "Best rpg of the year" (http://www.roliste.com). The competition was tough since amongst the nominees were a couple of best-sellers in France. The result is even more surprizing, knowing that Blue Planet is not translated. The other nominees were : Call of Cthulhu (Chaosium / Descartes) Conspiracy X (Eden Studio / Multisim) Dark Earth 2 (Multisim) Feng Shui (Atlas Games / Oriflam) Herowars (Issaries / Multisim) Metabarons (West End Games / Yeti) Shadowrun (FASA / Descartes) SLA Industries (Nightfall) Zombies (Judaprod) This prize is awarded by the crew of the "Guide du Roliste Galactique" (GROG : http://www.roliste.com), a french non-profit organization providing information about role-playing games from all over the world : digests, reviews, news, database, etc. It has a team of 70 writers: these are the guys who decided which game would win. Congratulations to the authors of the game, their second edition seems to be very popular. See you next year for another "Grog d'Or". Remi Barbarin http://www.roliste.com ========================================================== Gar http://www.mytholder.f2s.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:44 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror --- Ml10@aol.com wrote: > In short, if you want to see BP in the top 10 games > played list, then run Blue Planet. Run it at cons. > Run it in stores. Run it for the local club. The more > it is played, the more likely other people will start > running it. Absolutly, I intend to do just that. I am trying to put together a really good adventure to introduce my group with. I finally got them to agree to play a one-shot adventure and I want it to go well ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:40 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- Dom Twist wrote: > Because thats where the civil war that will make or break the GEO is > going > to happen........ Really?? The US and China are going to smuggle enough troops and firepower past the GEO to make a go there when their power base, strength and allies are all earth based? I see the story developing more as poseidon becomes the GEO's last bastion as the earth nations throw off it's perceived yoke > Its also where the incorperates will be really desperate....ie > willing to move fast and hard. Possibly, I don't see incorp action on poseidon having much direct influence on earth apart from news stories that stain the GEO's image > Still Disagree! Earth's Underwater element is going to be large > thanks to the land be trashed. Mabey > I dont see WoH as being the Solar system suplement....as being the > EARTH supplement. As a stand alone, sister game, it would cover the Sol system of BP's universe. If produced as supplements one or more books dealing with earth and additional books on other locations in the Sol system > The same argument strikes against you here.....If I want to > play a game on Mars or in the Belt do I have to buy WoH, why not BP? As self contained games, WoH would cover the Sol system and BP the Serpentis system > There's a limit to how many books people will buy with endless > repetions of the same 'This is a rpg, this is how you roll up a PC' > schtick in them. !!!!TWO!!!! books with around 50 pages of shared material > But people wont buy it. Thats the problem. The BP'ers will, well the > collecters will. However what makes WoH stick out from all the other > CP games? Nothing. all the other CP games??? I can think of 2. Cyberpunk 2020 is aparently having problems and doesn't seem to have been doing well lately, shadowrun has just changed hands and people complain all the friggin time about how bad the rules are. > It simply will not sell to NEW non-BP gamers in any quanitiy. I simply disagree, from my experience a new cyberpunkish game, with the detail and care WoH would have, backed by BPs reputation as a stellar game would easily attract new players who have never played BP > to make them play WoH....only the GM buys the MG anyway... Balony, I have yet to meet a gamer who didn't try to collect as many books of the games he plays as possible, especiall when it's a setting sourcebook as the Biohazard MGs are. Most people who buy teh Player's Guide will buy the Moderator's guide as well > If they dont want to Play BP they went out and bought CP > 2020/SR/RIFTS a few years ago. Because tehy didn't like the exploration/waterworld setting, I believe a sizable percentage of those 2020/SR/rifts players considered buying BP but didn't because (the perceived) it fell outside their prefered genre. If WoH was marketed as an independent game, some of those people would buy > WoH would sell worse than BP as a standalone. > As a sister game it would do better a little better, Standalone...Sister game, same thing. A game capable of being used and run independent of BP butrelated to it by being set in the same setting. simmilar to (but not really like) Deadlands and Deadland :Hell on Earth, but seperated spatially instead of temporally. Both games can be run independently, but taken together they form a more complete picture of the entire universe > as people like me would buy it as reference to BP (but all those > pages wasted on rules and how to moderate a game would be a shame) > but it would still under sell BP. I expect most people who already play BP will buy WoH no matter how it is marketed, the issue is attracting new people, which you don't seem to think CAN happen and I think is likely. > Our difference is that you want a PG for WoH. I just want a Source > book.......worst case a alternate MG. The BP MG is a sourcebook > The WoH setting is a lot weaker than most Cp Games at first > glance.....of course actually it's very good.....but it wont grab > GM's.......who can play 'any old game'. I think it is significantly stronger than most of them, with it's emphasis on harder science, more realistic social development, it's post apocalyptic overtones its space elements and it's ability to borrow the reputation BP has, even among non-players as a magnificent game. As I said in a seperate post, my only concern with it as a seperate game is it's potential to overshadow BP and poseidon, something I definately don't want > I would love to see a huge multi book based system where I can run a > campaign of anything I want........but > BP is still the best start point. If you wanna see BP and FFG > grow.......then good review's are the best starting point. BP has good reviews in spades, I have yet to hear it called even an average quality game, much less bad. It's been out for a years and is still seen as a small press game just hanging on, with a tiny group of core fans. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:15 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror > No, you don't. I'm sorry, but this is a stupid misconception. Your right it doesn't but unfortunately in reality it is often what happens. The audience with the largest disposal income is "toddlers" and popularity often attracts munchkin elements. Also with larger sales beloved and committed designers are often replaced by executives with "business sense". This often leads to making marketable products and not quality products. > If you open a game up to the "mass market", yes, you do run the risk of > getting more vocal stupid people. That isn't the game's fault. Vampire 3rd > edition is, imho, just as cool and edgy as 1st edition was. WW aren't > putting out the Bumper Book of Twinkery*. It's just stupid players who are > running Champions with Fangs. Totally agree. You should not try and hurt a games popularity to discourage twinky elements. The game will still be what you want it to be. To hell with the vocal stupid people, don't let them rule you life. :) Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Troy > I do play shadowrun, and given the choice I'd pick WoH as a > prefered game, and so would most of the people I game with. Shadowrun's system is far to complex and 3rd Ed sucked......as did losing all their best writers. Unfortunately I think you're pretty alone in that view point. I spot polled a group of 20 or so RPG'ers at my local Game Store......and only 2 showed any intrest in 'yet another post apocolypse/cyberpunk game' as it was sumerised back to me.......of those that did.....they were all intrested in Shatterlands (Bradstreets art work being a bigger seller than cool system......Art Sells Books......and cover art aside the BP art mostly sucks, the cover art is vvvvvgood of course). However of the same group 3 actualy asked about ordering copies of BP PG after I managed to launch into the spiel of that one (most of course bolted after hearing 'Water World'.......that IS a problem)...of those 3. One of those is looking to join my current BP game.......but the others arnt. DomT *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:09 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > Actually, my one concern about WoH as a sister game and not a > supplement is that it could very easily overshadow BP. Poseidon is an > incredible setting in it's own right, but I could see WoH as becoming > important enough that BP seems more like a spinoff game from it despite > having come first. I disagree. Blue Planet sells well as it has a shtick. Poseidon, the Wild West, Long John and the Worm Hole. The writers of BP have a good knowledge of Biology nad have utilised that. WoH would be restricted by whats already written and so woould have less shticks. Its main line would be a hard scifi cyber punk world which I don't think is enough. Again, if you wanted to do that I think you would be best designing a new game from the ground up rather than cutting it out of BP. > But it does have Silvas, cats, probably several other hybrids and > Genies, more beleivable tech and a more realistic social/political > system. BP/WoH has space travel, moon colonies, asteroid miners and > lots more. I do play shadowrun, and given the choice I'd pick WoH as a > prefered game, and so would most of the people I game with. I know a lot of people who play ShadowRun for the fantasy elements. It is what makes Shadowrun different from other Cyberpunk games. I don't see them moving to a less distinctive game considering SR's long history and fan base. Now I do know some who have moved to BP as it has sufficiently different and new aspects that make it an alternative rather than a substitute. Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:10 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror << Cthulhu, various Paladium things and Gurps are probably up as third rankers and it would be nice to see BP up there.......>> GMs fall into 2 categories: 1) GMs who will experiment with new games. 2) GMs who will only run games that they are familar with. Group 1 which is much, much smaller than group 2. For example, when I was in college, Shadowrun was THE game to run. Even though it was already into second editon already, nobody was even remotely interested in running Vampire. Then one day, I started a campaign with 2 players. 2 player grew to 4, then to 6 and then to 10. Other people started buying the Vampire books and running it. From there is blossomed. The same thing is starting to happen with Blue Planet in the local club. I tried for 2 years to get a game going. I was finally able to secure 4 players. Now, a year later, I have a rather nice size pool of players and one of them just picked up the Moderator's Guide and is planning on starting his own campaign. WoTC, WW, and Palladium have a large network of players. It is these networks that continue to drive sales. Smaller companies don't have these networks in place, so while their products are "better", they don't sell as well. In short, if you want to see BP in the top 10 games played list, then run Blue Planet. Run it at cons. Run it in stores. Run it for the local club. The more it is played, the more likely other people will start running it. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:02 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror > > I don't know, it's a tricky situation. Any way works for me, I just > > want to see the entire setting developed as much as possible. but I > > would like to see it expand into one of the BIG RPGs on the market, and > > I think marketing WoH seperatly has a better chance of doing that. > > > > Hmmm I agree with most of this........however I dont want to see BP become > one of the BIG RPG's if you're talking about D&D or Vampire+co.......to put > it bluntly to apeal to a mass market you have to pander to the munchkin's > needs..... No, you don't. I'm sorry, but this is a stupid misconception. >Vampire started out as a Goth thang and was pretty cool.......its > turned into a game played by power gamers who dig running around the 'real' > world able to leap over tall builds and kill whoever they want (I actualy > play in a Brilliant Vamp dark Ages game.....) but how often have you heard > 'I have this great new character hes half were-bear half were aligator and > he can do xxxxx damage' [paraphrase of a actual monologue]......... If you open a game up to the "mass market", yes, you do run the risk of getting more vocal stupid people. That isn't the game's fault. Vampire 3rd edition is, imho, just as cool and edgy as 1st edition was. WW aren't putting out the Bumper Book of Twinkery*. It's just stupid players who are running Champions with Fangs. If BP did manage to hit the big time, Greg and Jeff and co would not find their brains softening and leaking out their ears. Success doesn't equal stupidity. >the less > said about D&D 3e the better (yup I'm playing that too, good GM's can turn > anything round). I'll leave that pass, although I disagree. > DomT Gar http://www.mytholder.f2s.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt --- "David R. Crowell" wrote: > Blue Planet seems to be the core product, a suplemmental game could > complement that. It does not seem to me that Synergy system > mechanics, or World of Hurt background are either one sufficiently > intrinsicly superior to anything else on the market to woo legions of > players away from the game they are playing now. There for I see no > reason to develop an entire WoH game line. A WoH game and a > supplement detailing the rest of the Solar System might pull in a few Actually, my one concern about WoH as a sister game and not a supplement is that it could very easily overshadow BP. Poseidon is an incredible setting in it's own right, but I could see WoH as becoming important enough that BP seems more like a spinoff game from it despite having come first. > gamers who would other wise play Cyberpunk, or Gurps Transhuman > Space, or even Jovian Chronicles, You know, I keep hearing peopel talking about GURPS Transhuman Space like some big thing, why? GURPS settings, whether original or based on licensed work have always sucked, why is this one being viewed as likely to be good? > I doubt it would get Shadowrun Players (no elves or magic), But it does have Silvas, cats, probably several other hybrids and Genies, more beleivable tech and a more realistic social/political system. BP/WoH has space travel, moon colonies, asteroid miners and lots more. I do play shadowrun, and given the choice I'd pick WoH as a prefered game, and so would most of the people I game with. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Troy > apart from the importation > of long john, which just makes a variety of biotech available for > purchase, how does poseidon dramatically effect earth? > Because thats where the civil war that will make or break the GEO is going to happen........Its also where the incorperates will be really desperate....ie willing to move fast and hard. Me > > Disagree. Given the points about food production etc ........ > Yes, there are certainly many fins in earth's oceans, but that is not > where 99% of the adventures are going to take place, and there are not > that many fins on the moon, and mars, and the belt, and the jovian > moons. Still Disagree! Earth's Underwater element is going to be large thanks to the land be trashed. Second.....according to FM etc there ARE quite a few fin's (not many Orca's I'd guess tho') out there as they handle Zero-G so well. Me> > > Probably worth a really Big Adventure/Campaign > > Book that does just that > Yes, but that is not the limit of the potential. I dont see that as WoH........I see that as a epic campaign adventure.....like CoC's Beyond the Mountains of Maddness or Vampires Transylvania Chronicals > I would LOVE to play > in a game like that, many other people may want to play campaigns > revolving around the national movement to abolish the GEO, or other > plot that is not going to be affected by poseidon at all. Producing WoH > s a supplement for BP makes it just that, a product or series of > products that exist to support Poseidon. I dont see WoH as being the Solar system suplement....as being the EARTH supplement. The same argument strikes against you here..........If I want to play a game on Mars or in the Belt do I have to buy WoH, why not BP? What if they want to play in the Belt IN the Serpentis system. Possibly the answer would be a re-vamp of Chaosium's Basic Role Play booklet.........bundle a copy of the Synergy System and basics of character gen in a booklet..........or as a free download.........and leave WoH and future supplements free of that......just have character templates etc There's a limit to how many books people will buy with endless repetions of the same 'This is a rpg, this is how you roll up a PC' schtick in them. > As a sister game, set in > another area of the same setting (note that SAME SETTING) it allows > those who only want to play on earth to not have to buy BP stuff, and > vice versa those who only want to ply poseidon games don't need WoH > stuff. Those who want to run grand games between the two have more > variety in their selection of resources. But people wont buy it. Thats the problem. The BP'ers will, well the collecters will. However what makes WoH stick out from all the other CP games? Nothing. It simply will not sell to NEW non-BP gamers in any quanitiy. A alternate MG WoH would do a lot of the job........allow a GM to run either. And if players were put off by the idea of playing ona water world (and many are) I doubt you'd have anything special to make them play WoH......only the GM buys the MG anyway.....he can the game whereever he wants. And its the GM's you're trying to sell WoH to......a sister system wont sell them any faster. > > True.......but nothing WoH couldnt cope with........especially if it > > had some good player handout sheets/downloadable PDF's > > If it requires online support for someone who doesn't want to play BP > to play WoH then those people will not play either. If they dont want to Play BP they went out and bought CP 2020/SR/RIFTS a few years ago. Roleplaying gamers are not a increasing audience. There are far few new gamers than old. Many of us are late twenties to early thirties. New players are introduced by Olders GM's........3e D&D MIGHT turn that around but at the mo thats where it stands......GM's might well be convinced that by buying the PG and the apropiate MG they can run whichever setting they want.......Players will pick up the PG after they get hooked. > So if a group of players have no interest in poseidon, but would like > to play a belter game, tough luck? Nope......the GM buys the apropiate book and thats all she wrote........if you want to sell a RPG on the strength of Belters well and good......but I doubt you'll get many sales. WoH would sell worse than BP as a standalone. As a sister game it would do better a little better, as people like me would buy it as reference to BP (but all those pages wasted on rules and how to moderate a game would be a shame) but it would still under sell BP. > WoH should and CAN be a contrast to BP. BP should and can be a contrast > to WoH as well, and both should and CAN be made to stand on there own. > WoH marketed as a stand alone game can acomplish al three of those > goals, as a supplement it cannot it can only serve to supplement BP. Our difference is that you want a PG for WoH. I just want a Source book.......worst case a alternate MG. I dont see where the new players would come from. The WoH setting is a lot weaker than most Cp Games at first glance........of course actually it's very good.......but it wont grab GM's.......who can play 'any old game'. I would love to see a huge multi book based system where I can run a campaign of anything I want........but BP is still the best start point. If you wanna see BP and FFG grow.......then good review's are the best starting point. Anyone sent a copy to KODT or Dork Storm lately? DomT *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 5:11 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror Somewhere I read Deadlands was "Horror Western". Obviously the term Horror is broader than I thought :) -----Original Message----- From: Dom Twist [SMTP:thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, 10 May 2001 10:11 To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt and Horror > > I don't know, it's a tricky situation. Any way works for me, I just > want to see the entire setting developed as much as possible. but I > would like to see it expand into one of the BIG RPGs on the market, and > I think marketing WoH seperatly has a better chance of doing that. > Hmmm I agree with most of this........however I dont want to see BP become one of the BIG RPG's if you're talking about D&D or Vampire+co.......to put it bluntly to apeal to a mass market you have to pander to the munchkin's needs.....Vampire started out as a Goth thang and was pretty cool.......its turned into a game played by power gamers who dig running around the 'real' world able to leap over tall builds and kill whoever they want (I actualy play in a Brilliant Vamp dark Ages game.....) but how often have you heard 'I have this great new character hes half were-bear half were aligator and he can do xxxxx damage' [paraphrase of a actual monologue].........the less said about D&D 3e the better (yup I'm playing that too, good GM's can turn anything round). Cthulhu, various Paladium things and Gurps are probably up as third rankers and it would be nice to see BP up there....... Horror Gaming? It probably the biggest type of game in the bits of the UK I've been around (North West, South West and London) fantasy and cyberpunk are distant second and hard sci-fi and manga stuff is in the haze........ DomT DomT *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 4:59 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt > > >If the duplicated rules section were less than 20 pages I > >would say put it in, more than that and I'm not so sure, over 50 pages leave > >it out. > > But what about new rules, such as new backgrounds? If it's new, bring it on and pack it in. I was refering to a duplication of already published rules. New backgrounds are one of the things I would like to see in WoH, I don't imagine there are very many Poseidon Natives or Colonists on Earth. A few, sure but I think detailed backgrounds for Mars, Luna and the Belt, as well as more Earth backgrounds woould be more apropriate to WoH. Any other new skills, equipment, etc needed to reflect life on Earth or in the Solar System would also be welcome. I would just like it to be mostly new material. I have no objection to rules, per se. does that clarify my pov? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: necrobob [necrobob@mail.compfxnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 1:49 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "David R. Crowell" Reply-To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:33:45 -0400 >Other Old School gamers on this list may also remeber the days of >stand-alone, one-shot RPG rulebooks. Some such as Palladium's "Systems >Failure" are even of fairly recent vintage. And a fairly nice vintage, in the case of SF. >If the duplicated rules section were less than 20 pages I >would say put it in, more than that and I'm not so sure, over 50 pages leave >it out. But what about new rules, such as new backgrounds? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David Chart [hist@dchart.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 1:46 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - B-PIP update --On 9/5/01 9:55 +0200 Jerome Darmont wrote: > Personnaly, I'm not motivated at all by this contest-thing. On the > contrary. Ah, but I am, because (a) I'm skint, and (b) BP books are expensive. I could keep up in the days of 1 paperback per year... But it sounds like I've been overtaken again. I'll have to do something about that... ;-) David Chart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 1:34 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt I don't see why a WoH game could not be presented as ONE standalone rules book. BP V1 was published in this format and it worked just fine. I do not think that both an MG and a PG are needed. As for supplements, why a tech book specific to WoH? Technolgy is going to be universally applicable, like wise suplements detailing Mars etc copuld just just as well be released under the BP banner as the WoH banner or labeled as "A supplement for Blue Planet and World of Hurt". I for one feel that WoH should be a one-shot game, not the start of a second game line. That is assuming Biohazard releases it as a game and not a sourcebook. Other Old School gamers on this list may also remeber the days of stand-alone, one-shot RPG rulebooks. Some such as Palladium's "Systems Failure" are even of fairly recent vintage. Blue Planet seems to be the core product, a suplemmental game could complement that. It does not seem to me that Synergy system mechanics, or World of Hurt background are either one sufficiently intrinsicly superior to anything else on the market to woo legions of players away from the game they are playing now. There for I see no reason to develop an entire WoH game line. A WoH game and a supplement detailing the rest of the Solar System might pull in a few gamers who would other wise play Cyberpunk, or Gurps Transhuman Space, or even Jovian Chronicles, I doubt it would get Shadowrun Players (no elves or magic), but I think its largest appeal will be to BP players and fans. As a member of that group I am still split between the convienience of having the rules in the same book, and wanting to see the space used for more new content. If the duplicated rules section were less than 20 pages I would say put it in, more than that and I'm not so sure, over 50 pages leave it out. --dave ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Both edited. > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "William Timmins" > Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 20:59:31 -0400 > > FFG must develop and support a whole suite of books and supplements to > maintain a viable line, in _addition_ to BP, in a niche market that > typically doesn't sell very well. They'd need a Player's Book, Game > Moderator's book, maybe a tech book, then some world supplements every once > in a while to keep the game alive. > ================================ > From: Jeb Boyt To: Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:40 AM > Why would you necessarily need a Moderator's Book for WoH? Given the > setting and its development out of our own world, the WoH line might be > better served with a core rulebook and regional sourcebooks (i.e. North > America, Europe, etc.). > > Jeb > > _________________________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 1:05 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt Personally, I'd like to see WoH as a seperate game. I believe that the two games would be different enough to attact different people. People go to Poseidon to look for hope and hope can be found. On Earth, there is little hope. There is much anger and resentment. Earth is being rebuilt, but which vision is being followed? Old conflicts would be renewed as various factions compete for control of the rebuilding at a local level. At the Global level, it is a very complex web of politics. The Incorporates and nations such as the US and China are Independent. How would they go about expanding their borders? Could a faction rise and unite a free zone and then pledge loyalty to an Incorporate? How would the US react if Idaho suddenly declared loyalty to Gendiver? Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Angus McNicholl [darthgus@lineone.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:44 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Character Template book (was Re: World of Hurt) Gus: Got to say I'm no fan of books that are just a load of characters, possibly the biggest waist of money you can buy... just look at the second hand self at your local games shop... for any game system prepresented their with be 4 or 5 character books for every 1 of the other volumes... why, cos no body wants them! Gus... http://website.lineone.net/~darthgus/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Wil To: Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:13 AM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Character Template book (was Re: World of Hurt) > Y'know, I think the idea of a character template book, that is *all* > character templates and new backgrounds, is a pretty nifty idea. I usually > have little or no use for character compendiums, but the templates are a > different story. > > FWIW, I think that WoH would best serve everyone's purposes as a Moderator > Guide style and size book, without actually being a stand alone game. > > The Atomic Rumpus Room: Club Metro Survivor's Homepage, Klub Lathe info, > Dreams of Flesh & Spirit, The Datacore, 60 Tons of Pure Whoopass, PikaDance, > more! > http://www.atomicrumpusroom.net/ > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:58 AM To: Andrew Sturman Cc: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: character generator The character generation sheet is now posted, as well, at http://www.chalz.net/bp/tools/ Let me know if there are any issues/comments/critiques/etc. Thanks! --Charles *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:42 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? > -----Original Message----- > From: David R. Crowell [mailto:gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt-Hard SF and Realism? > > Yes you are correct a true Hard Science fiction is based in our > > science and not in speculations about the science in a distant > > future And for you what is the difference between a Hard Science > > Fiction and Science Fiction? > This is a topic of endless (and often very passionate) debate. And probably forever will be. I personally don't see the point. I read a story and I either like it or not (in varying degrees). How "hard" the science is, is often less important than other major literary concerns. How well written is it? How well developed are the characters? Does it evoke emotion in me? Would I recommend it to others? > Hard SF tries to keep within what is possible with known science. > It becomes progressively softer until it becomes Science Fantasy. > Science Fantasy is fantasy with SF trappings, ray-guns, spaceships, > Star Wars for example. > Star Wars is a very good example of Science Fantasy (or Space Opera) where the *why* of something (or the "how it works") is much less important than the fact that it does work. > Star Trek is very soft SF, science is followed but can be bent or > ignored when the story demands it. Think of it as a spectrum. > I like to consider Star Trek moderately "hard" science fiction. Unfortunately the writers seem to disagree with me. It's not uncommon that they often throw out their own rules and come up with a poorly written, off the cuff plot device to bail them out of a poorly constructed conflict in the last ten minutes. > > About GURPS a like the system and in my opnion it is > > much better then the Synergy system. > > That is a matter of personal taste and if it works for you I > say enjoy it. > I agree with Dave. I've played quite a bit of GURPS over the years and it often strikes me as sort of cobbled together. Of course that's not an uncommon result of a game system that's been around so long and been expanded into so many very different genres. But I prefer Greg's system. Neat, tidy, fast moving and tightly woven, but probably only applicable to Sci-Fi. Jim Jim Heivilin, System Administrator IAT Services, Open Systems Team University of Missouri at Columbia mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 573-884-3898 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:51 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - multi-mode watercraft ----Original Message Follows---- From: Tom Barnes Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:01:17 -0500 - The 10m submergence requirement dosen't buy that much storm survival (I suspect you would have to be a LOT deeper to ride out a Noah), but means that EVERY external opening will have to be proof against in excess of 1 atmosphere of outside pressure. ================================= I agree that 10 meters is probably insufficient to ride out a storm. However, the wind driven waves associated with a storm have a low amplitude so a submersible would not have to go all that deep to avoid the storm effects. In the area in front of the storm, however, where the water is being pushed ahead of the storm, the storm effects are likely to extend into deeper waters. Your best bet is still to stay out of the path of the storm, particularly the center of the storm. I am extrapolating here from what I know about hurricanes, so please let me know where I am wrong on this. Jeb _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:41 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - World of Hurt ----Original Message Follows---- From: "William Timmins" Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 20:59:31 -0400 FFG must develop and support a whole suite of books and supplements to maintain a viable line, in _addition_ to BP, in a niche market that typically doesn't sell very well. They'd need a Player's Book, Game Moderator's book, maybe a tech book, then some world supplements every once in a while to keep the game alive. (You _have_ to publish supplements to remind people/hook people) ================================ I don't think that this is necessarily the case. As a sister game using the same mechanics, a supplement for WoH would work just as well for a BP GM who was interested in the topic. For example, a Mars sourcebook could appeal to both a BP GM and a WoH GM and shouldn't require that the GM own both BP and WoH. Similarly, Fluid Mechanics probably includes a lot of material that will be useful to a WoH GM. Oh, and publishing supplements doesn't keep a game alive. People playing a game keep it alive. Publishing supplements promotes the appearance that a game is alive. Why would you necessarily need a Moderator's Book for WoH? Given the setting and its development out of our own world, the WoH line might be better served with a core rulebook and regional sourcebooks (i.e. North America, Europe, etc.). Jeb _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Megan C. Robertson [mcrobertson@phoenix.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 4:03 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - B-PIP update Greetings dear hearts. Jérome says he's not motivated by the contest, neither am I. It's more a question of time: it took an hour to generate about 1,000-points worth of entries and I have one or two other things I'd like to do... So I'll keep on spending spare hours on the index, but with no expectation of winning owt! Hugs and kisses, Mexal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jerome Darmont [jdarmont@dionysos.univ-lyon2.fr] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:55 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - B-PIP update At 16:53 08/05/01 -0400, Ml10@aol.com wrote: >In order to encourage more people to help with B-PIP, >I've started a second contest. Personnaly, I'm not motivated at all by this contest-thing. On the contrary. -- Jérôme Darmont, mailto:darmont@free.fr, http://fly.to/bleue.planete *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.