From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 8:56 To: 'blue_planet@MPGN.COM' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Kalus [mailto:max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A Few Comments > Yes, I agree. Details like these greatly help understand the > game world. Even > things like insurances etc. can be helpful sometimes! > > By the way: > You Americans are allowed to look into other countries for > details. Generally, American rolegames tend to be ***VERY*** > heavielly reliant on America. Well, heck! In 2199 where do you > think the Chinese or Indians are? Still on Earth? > Well, I would guess that many of them cought the train to space... > --- Just a side note :-) > Actually there are any number of other countries (or Incorporates which grew from other countries) represented on Poseidon. Hanover Industries was an out-growth of the Federal Republic of Germany. Prime Meridian was settled by several Arab nations. I don't have my book here to verify all the different ethnic or national groups that settle different areas of the Archipelago but it ISN'T a solely American place. I'm sure Jason or Greg can provide more details and I can look in my copy of the book when I get home tonight and post again. Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games ccbanzai@showme.missouri.edu http://www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Max Kalus [max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 5:26 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A Few Comments R. Stefko wrote: > 2) Do you guys plan to publish material on spacecraft? In Fluid Mechanics, > perhaps? I ask because it's useful to know what kind of drive systems ships > use, how long interplanetary trips take, what's the cargo capacity of your > average freighter, and other details nosy . . . I mean curious players ask > for from time to time. > 3) On that note, ever thought of putting a short primer in Undercurrents > covering the basics of living, working, and travelling in space and > underwater? (Some numbers and equations thrown in there would be greatly > appreciated by us "sticklers for details" types.) Yes, I agree. Details like these greatly help understand the game world. Even things like insurances etc. can be helpful sometimes! By the way: You Americans are allowed to look into other countries for details. Generally, American rolegames tend to be ***VERY*** heavielly reliant on America. Well, heck! In 2199 where do you think the Chinese or Indians are? Still on Earth? Well, I would guess that many of them cought the train to space... --- Just a side note :-) Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kevin C. Carpenter [keepiru@nationwide.net] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 9:08 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Multinationalism in Space Actually, I think Blue Planet does a good job of showcasing the international presence in space. From the true multinationalism of the Incorporate states on Poseidon to the cultural and racial assortments in the asteroid belts, they've really made an effort to emphasize the fact that its not just 'Space, USA.' Oh, and not all of us are as provincial as you might think. Some of us have done more than our fair share of studying other cultures. ;) - Kevin >By the way: >You Americans are allowed to look into other countries for details. Generally, >American rolegames tend to be ***VERY*** heavielly reliant on America. Well, >heck! In 2199 where do you think the Chinese or Indians are? Still on Earth? >Well, I would guess that many of them cought the train to space... >--- Just a side note :-) > >Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Disturbnce [Disturbnce@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 10:21 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Oceanography Debate In a message dated 98-05-19 18:37:45 EDT, you write: > Well, sure. A good idea. New skills should probably crop up to deal > with specific campaign situations. I actually had someone in a game take the > "Clubbing" skill (as in discoteques), and it was great. One of the things I like about Earthdawn is that it has a specific Talent list for the Discipline you follow, but Skills are open-ended. You're free to make up any skills you feel appropriate and that the GM will allow. My wife's character has Court Dancing and Elven Court Etiquette, and both have come in very useful -- sometimes in peculiar situations. :) I think it's all based on the campaign and the GM, as far as what's useful and how fast and loose you can play with the system. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Disturbnce [Disturbnce@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 10:21 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Other games (was: Market Exposure) In a message dated 98-05-19 18:47:26 EDT, you write: > Sikh fighter pilot. In order to maintain the strict religious requirements > of his role, he had been genetically altered before birth so that his hair > will not grow past a certain point. (Whether or not this is possible was > less important to me that it was interesting.) Hm. Would this count as altering the natural form? If so, then you'd have a big row with other Sikh characters. I could see factionalism in the Sikh movement over genetic alteration and other biomodification techniques. Got to get working on the BP news releases... got a storyline I want to develop... Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 14:00 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Multinationalism in Space -----Original Message----- From: Kevin C. Carpenter To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 8:22 AM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Multinationalism in Space > Actually, I think Blue Planet does a good job of showcasing the >international presence in space. From the true multinationalism of the >Incorporate states on Poseidon to the cultural and racial assortments in the >asteroid belts, they've really made an effort to emphasize the fact that its >not just 'Space, USA.' Beyond the Incorporate, the other major political player, the GEO, is broadly multinational, and enjoys/suffers almost no US participation. Then, of course, you've got the Gorchoff Family, descended from the Russian mafia, and the NRM, influenced by Caribbean cultures. The remaining Independent nations, like the UIR, China, and India, also have established limited presences on Poseidon, though they haven't been emphasized in the published material to date. The settlement of Earth Orbit and the Solar System has been so multinational that national identities have lost a great deal of their significance. Luna, Mars Colony, and the Belt Colonies all struggle to maintain their independence from Earth, so it is probably natural that they consider themselves Lunars, Martians, or Belters first, and Swedes, Indonesians, and South Africans second. Greg Benage Biohazard Games www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 13:13 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Cc: max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) As another side note: As an American, it never ceases to amaze me how touchy non-Americans have towards all forms of American culture, not just RPGs. While we can be quite Americancentric, RPGs tend to break out of that mold as much as possible. The designers have to in order to appeal to the "lure of the exotic" for Americans, let alone the rest of the world. 1) GDW's '2300AD' was multinational. It tried to reference America as just 'another country'. In that universe, the Third French Empire was number one followed by the Manchurians, Japanese, British, Argentina, Brazil and other countries. America was just an equal to those non-French spacefaring powers. Many of the game's supplements had non-American based backgrounds & characters in them as well. The rich multi-national detail of '2300AD' is what made it such a fine game, in my opinion. 2) GURPS has produced quite a few non-American specific modules that are quite good. I'm currently awaiting GURPS Russia to ship any time now. There are others I can list, but the basic point is: RPGs -- especially SciFi based ones -- tend to represent an art form that tries to break away from Americancentricism, not reinforce it. Sure, the games are subtilely colored by language, idioms and other American cultural 'flags' simply because of the background experiences of the designers. But, I've seen the same from British RPG products as well. Besides, America is THE place to be these days. heheheheh...just kidding. At 08:55 AM 5/20/98 -0500, Heivilin, Jim wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Max Kalus [mailto:max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] >> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A Few Comments > >> Yes, I agree. Details like these greatly help understand the >> game world. Even >> things like insurances etc. can be helpful sometimes! >> >> By the way: >> You Americans are allowed to look into other countries for >> details. Generally, American rolegames tend to be ***VERY*** >> heavielly reliant on America. Well, heck! In 2199 where do you >> think the Chinese or Indians are? Still on Earth? >> Well, I would guess that many of them cought the train to space... >> --- Just a side note :-) >> >Actually there are any number of other countries (or Incorporates which >grew from other countries) represented on Poseidon. > >Hanover Industries was an out-growth of the Federal Republic of Germany. > > >Prime Meridian was settled by several Arab nations. > >I don't have my book here to verify all the different ethnic or national >groups that settle different areas of the Archipelago but it ISN'T a >solely American place. I'm sure Jason or Greg can provide more details >and I can look in my copy of the book when I get home tonight and post >again. > >Jim > >Jim Heivilin, Webmaster >Biohazard Games >ccbanzai@showme.missouri.edu >http://www.biohazardgames.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Alexandre "Tarrask" Filho [fatima@openline.com.br] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 14:18 To: blue_planet@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space Hi folks. I don't remember the last time I wrote to the list, but as you're talking about RPG in another coutries, and I'm a "living being", there's some more info... >As an American, it never ceases to amaze me how touchy non-Americans have towards all forms of American culture, not just RPGs. While we can be quite Americancentric, RPGs tend to break out of that mold as much as possible. The designers have to in order to appeal to the "lure of the exotic" for Americans, let alone the rest of the world. >2) GURPS has produced quite a few non-American specific modules that are quite good. I'm currently awaiting GURPS Russia to ship any time now. There's another GURPS Supplement that SJG even doesn't know yet if they're going to translate to english. It's called Gurps Espada da Galaxia (can be translated as Galaxy's Sword (I don't like the title either.. #:)))) >There are others I can list, but the basic point is: RPGs -- especially SciFi based >ones -- tend to represent an art form that tries to break away from Americancentricism, >not reinforce it. Sure, the games are subtilely colored by language, idioms and other >American cultural 'flags' simply because of the background experiences of the >designers. But, I've seen the same from British RPG products as well. Well, the game that is a HUGE cultural 'flag', as you said, is WW's. They're incredible American at the point of divide the world in America and Non-America (my viewpoint), and this is what I most like Blue Planet. It's the first sci-fi roleplaying game that doesn't make me play with a guy with an english-based name, background and everything else. The point is that the game puts the whole world in the scene, not in the background. That makes it more plausible, real, and different (it made my players work hard to get a good japanese name for them.... #:)))) Well, I'm going to finish with a question: is there any roleplaying game based on colonization of USA? I mean the time the first settles come, and started with the east coast, in the 13 states... I know one (that I know the authors too) about brazilian colonization (believe me, it's very fun to play, and very different, even for a brazilian like me!) that can be easily adapted for any Spain-colonized country (they're near, and the kind of colonization was pretty much the same...). []'s ********************************* *Alexandre Freire Filho * *Nick: Tarrask * *fatima@openline.com.br * *ICQ: 4477330 * *Peter Swanson na Kindred * ********************************* "Se você conhece o inimigo e conhece a si mesmo, não precisa temer o resultado de cem batalhas; Se você se conhece, mas não conhece o inimigo, para cada vitória ganha sofrerá também uma derrota; Se você nem conhece o inimigo nem a si mesmo, perderá todas as batalhas." Sun Tzu, A arte da guerra *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Rob Miracle [rwm@MPGN.COM] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 14:40 To: traveller@MPGN.COM; darkconspiracy@MPGN.COM; twilight2000@MPGN.COM; 2300ad@MPGN.COM; realms@MPGN.COM; planescape@MPGN.COM; dark-sun@MPGN.COM; birthright@MPGN.COM; dragonlance@MPGN.COM; ravenloft@MPGN.COM; spelljammer@MPGN.COM; alternity@MPGN.COM; blue_planet@MPGN.COM; mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fire Sale I have the following role playing game items that I wish to make available. This is kind of a going out of business fire sale, since I haven't played an RPG in over two years and I don't see any sessions on the horizon. This will be a bid based sale. The bid will run from Today until June 1, 1998. The minimum increment is $1.00 per item. All prices in USD. Buyer will pay for the shipping of their choice and it will be added to the sale price. Payment is by pre-payment. There are a few rare items in here so, please read it carefully. The initial post is going to all outlets, future updates will be at http://www.mpgn.com/~rwm/rpg-sale.html and rec.games.frp.marketplace. So don't loose this post! Without further ado: Shape codes: LN Like New Minor edge wear or less VG Very good Condition Some edge wear, corners nicked. G Good condition Used, but still in good shape F Fair Marked up, pages loose, etc. BTH Quite Worn Falling apart, torn covers, heavy use Most all items have my name in them. Boxed sets are for the most part whole, but I can't guarantee that so I am marking their condition one level lower than they are. Opening Bid is 50% of MSRP for known prices, best guess if I don't know. System Cond Open Curr Email Dungeons and Dragons Book of Marvelous Magic VG $5.00 Monster & Treasure Assortment G $3.00 The Rogues Gallery G $3.00 Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Manual of the Planes G $6.00 Greyhawk Adventures VG $7.00 Referee's Screen G $3.00 Forgotten Realms Campaign Set G $8.00 Wilderness Survival Guide VG $7.00 Birthright Boxed Set G $15.00 $15.00 chrisb@ Dungeon Master's Design Kit VG $4.00 Adv N2 The Forest Oracle VG $2.00 Adv I2 Tomb of the Lizard King VG $2.00 Adv I4 Oasis of the White Palm VG $2.00 Adv U2 The Sinister Secret of VG $2.00 Salt Marsh Book of Lairs VG $6.00 *** SPECIAL *** Deities and Demigods, 1st Ed. G $75.00 w/ Cthulhu & Melnibonean Mythos, Bound Upside Down I'm really not interested in selling it but I am testing the market. *** SPECIAL *** Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Ed Players Handbook VG $9.00 Dungeon Master's Guide LN $12.00 Dungeon Master's Guide BTH $2.00 Encyclopedia Magica Vol 1 VG $10.00 Encyclopedia Magica Vol 2 VG $10.00 Tome of Magic G $5.00 The Complete Fighter's Handbook VG $9.00 The Complete Book of Villains LN $9.00 The Complete Druid's Handbook LN $9.00 The Complete Paladin's Handbook VG $9.00 The Complete Book of Elves VG $9.00 The Complete Thief's Handbook VG $9.00 The Complete Psionics Handbook F $3.00 (The book is loose from the binding, other than that, it is VG) The Complete Wizard's Handbook VG $9.00 Book of Artificats LN $10.00 Monster Mythology VG $9.00 Monsterous Compendium (Loose leaf G $15.00 Binder + FG Realms, Spelljammer, and Outerplanes Monsterous Compendium Mystara LN $9.00 Monsterous Compendium Annual Vol 1 LN $9.00 Monsterous Compendium Planescape LN $9.00 The City of Greyhawk Boxed Set VG $9.00 $9.00 chrisb@ Dark Sun Boxed Set G $10.00 Top Secret Boxed Set (Version 2) VG $10.00 (Box is a bit worn, but the insides are like new) Gamma World Rule Book (original version) G $6.00 Amazing Engine System Guide LN $5.00 Bughunters LN $9.00 Dragon Magazine Issue #59 G $1.00 Issue #64 (I think, cover is BTH $1.00 missing. Inside Vol 7, Issue 2 Aug 1982) Issue #66 G $1.00 Issue #67 G $1.00 Issue #68 G $1.00 Issue #72 F $1.00 Issue #85 G $1.00 Issue #91 VG $1.00 Issue #127 VG $1.00 Issue #166 VG $1.00 Issue #200 Spc Collectors Ed. VG $3.00 Weather in the World of Greyhawk G $1.00 (Pull out from a dragon magazine) Citadel by the Sea (adv Oct 83 issue) G $1.00 Best of Dragon Vol 2. G $1.00 Judges Guild D&D Items Winderlands of the Magic Realm F $2.00 (may not be complete) The Unknown Gods F $2.00 Castle Book II G $2.00 The Book of Treasure Maps G $2.00 The Book of Ruins VG $2.00 Portals of Irontooth VG $2.00 Traveller (Classic) Book 0 An Introduction to Traveller VG $2.00 Intro Adv. The Imperial Fringe VG $2.00 Understanding Traveller VG $0.50 Spinward Marches Campaign VG $3.00 The Traveller Adventure G $8.00 Rules Booklet G $5.00 Charts and Tables G $5.00 Tarsus Boxed Set (w/Belt Strike F $3.00 boxed set innards) MegaTraveller Players' Manual G $4.00 Referee's Manual G $4.00 Imperial Encyclopedia G $4.00 Rebellion Sourcebook VG $6.00 Referee's Companion (Copy 1) LN $6.00 Referee's Companion (Copy 2) LN $6.00 KnightFall (Adventure) VG $5.00 Traveller The New Era TNE Rule Book VG $14.00 Referee's Screen VG $2.00 Players Forms VG $2.00 Reformation Coalition Equip Guide VG $10.00 Path of Tears (Star Viking Src Bk) VG $9.00 World Tamer's Handbook VG $7.00 Star Vikings VG $7.00 The Regency Sourcebook VG $10.00 Fire Fusion and Steel VG $8.00 Dangerous Journeys Mythus (rule book) LN $14.00 Challenge Magazine Issue 31 F $1.00 Issue 32 VG $2.00 Issue 33 VG $2.00 Issue 75 LN $2.00 GURPS 3rd Ed Basic Set G $10.00 Creatures of the Night LN $8.00 Fantasy LN $8.00 Horror LN $8.00 Bestiary 2nd Ed VG $7.00 Grimoire LN $8.00 Fantasy Bestiary G $6.00 Magic VG $7.00 Religion LN $8.00 Magic Items LN $8.00 Fantasy GM's Pack LN $6.00 Blank Character Sheets (20% used) F $2.00 Space Opera Vol 1, Vol 2, Ground & Air Equip, Space Marines (Set Sell Only) G $10.00 Aftermath Book 1, Book 2, Book 3, Intro Adv G $10.00 Scenario Pack 1 Into the Ruins (Set Sell Only) Champions (Note, most of these are in very good condition, but I colored the line drawings, thus lowering them to fair condition) Champions BTH $2.00 Champions II F $3.00 Champions III G $5.00 Enemies F $3.00 Enemies II F $3.00 Enemies III F $3.00 Gadgets G $5.00 Champions 3rd Ed F $6.00 Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 Rule Book VG $12.00 Datascreen VG $3.00 Night City VG $7.00 EuroSource VG $6.00 Solo of Fourtune VG $5.00 Protect & Serve LN $6.00 Corporation Report 2020 Vol 1 LN $6.00 Corporation Report 2020 Vol 2 LN $6.00 Cromebook I LN $6.00 Cromebook II LN $6.00 Maximum Metal LN $6.00 When Gravity Fails Adventure LN $6.00 Night City Stories (Atlas Games) LN $6.00 Chasing the Dragon (Atlas Games) LN $6.00 Interface Magazine Issue 3 Vol 1 LN $2.00 Interface Magazine Issue 4 Vol 1 LN $2.00 CyberGeneration 2027 VG $9.00 Mekton II (R. Talsorian Games) Rule book LN $6.00 I.C.E Arms Law & Claw Law (loose leaf) G $4.00 Future Law & Tech Law VG $8.00 Campaign & Adventure Guidebook for G $1.00 Middle Earth Isengard and the Northern Gondor G $5.00 Shadowrun Hard Back Rule Book LN $15.00 Star Trek: The Role Playing Game Star Trek III Sourcebook Update VG $3.00 ISBN 0-425-06979-6 (Older, no red stripe) Star Trek III Sourcebook Update VG $3.00 ISBN 0-931787-24-6 FASA 700 (W/ Red Stripe) Margin of Profit LN $3.00 The Vanished VG $3.00 Trader Captains and Merchant Princes VG $3.00 The Federation G $4.00 Stardate #1 VG $1.00 Stardate #2 VG $1.00 Misc Star Trek Starfleet Tech Manual VG $8.00 20th Aniv Version Finieous Treasury F $5.00 The Palladium Book of Contemporary G $2.00 Weapons The Silmarillion (J.R.R. Tolkien) G $5.00 Hard Back First American Ed. (Missing Dust cover, map present but loose) Entertainment Weekly Special VG $2.00 Collectors Ed. "Star Trek" Fall 1994 (Star Trek Generations Issue) Magic the Gathering Cards Over 870 Cards various issues VG $35.00 Marvel OverPower Card Game VG $2.00 About 75 Cards, looks like a starter set. SpellFire VG $3.00 3 Starter Boxes (2 1st Ed, 1 2nd Ed) Thanks Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Max Kalus [max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 14:47 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) D. Baughn wrote: > 2) GURPS has produced quite a few non-American specific modules that are quite good. > I'm currently awaiting GURPS Russia to ship any time now. Well, to be honest. I really like GURPS. But some of the modules just made me sick. Especially the one called "Alternate Realities" or so. No offense :-) Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: James Kiley [tenzil@io.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 14:59 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space On Wed, 20 May 1998, Alexandre "Tarrask" Filho wrote: > Well, the game that is a HUGE cultural 'flag', as you said, is WW's. > They're incredible American at the point of divide the world in America and > Non-America (my viewpoint), and this is what I most like Blue Planet. It's > the first sci-fi roleplaying game that doesn't make me play with a guy with > an english-based name, background and everything else. The point is that the > game puts the whole world in the scene, not in the background. That makes it > more plausible, real, and different (it made my players work hard to get a > good japanese name for them.... #:)))) As a freelance writer for WW's Trinity, I will say that we're trying a lot harder to get cultural 'tags' for other countries better worked out by doing more research and spending more time on those projects. I can't speak so much to the other WW lines, like the World of Darkness books, because I haven't done any work for them, but I believe they're changing. Sorry, that's a bit off-topic. jk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Hilarion [rhogan@mnsi.net] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 11:08 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM; postmaster@MPGN.COM; abuse@MPGN.COM; root@MPGN.COM Subject: SPAM: [BLUE PLANET] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fire Sal Follow Up Flag: Reply Flag Status: Flagged The minute I want unrelated SPAM in my mailbox is the day I line up for a barium enema. Delete this fool. If he is the postmaster himself, I'm sure he knows his UID and what to do with it. If I get any more of this crap, I'll happily tell the world what a beautiful set up this has been. Maybe a nice announcement to rec.games.frp.announce? It's bad enough to get this fecal matter all over my mailbox from other sources, but a direct pipeline in is not such a good thing, and I might be seriously reconsidering ever touching this site, list, and the whole concept of an RPG mailing list altogether. If this seems overly vitriolic, it is. This has nothing to do with Blue Planet. This has everything to do with pissing people off and someone being a self-centred knee-biting jerk. On 20-May-98 Rob Miracle playfully chanted: | I have the following role playing game items that I wish to make | available. This is kind of a going out of business fire sale, since I | haven't played an RPG in over two years and I don't see any sessions on | the horizon. [snip overly expensive D&D bookmarks] | *************************************************************************** | To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line | 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. --- rhogan@mnsi.net Do we chase our tail or the moon when we follow the path of self-modification with out objectivity? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 15:35 To: 'blue_planet@MPGN.COM' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - RE: Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) > -----Original Message----- > From: D. Vaughn [mailto:dbaughn@cadence.com] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) > As an American, it never ceases to amaze me how touchy > non-Americans have towards all forms of American culture, not > just RPGs. While we can be quite Americancentric, RPGs tend > Disclaimer: First of all, let me say that I am saying the following as a person and not as someone affiliated with Biohazard. Thus nothing I say in this missive will in any way be considered to be the opinion/position of the company. Next, let me establish (what I believe) my "right" to have an opinion. I've spent 13 years of my life in the service of my country (re the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers) defending it and what it stands for. So don't come back to me with "If you don't like it, leave!". And leaving doesn't solve any of what you as a person with an opinion may think is wrong. Granted we as individuals have little influence over "the world" (meaning we have limited capability to "change the world"). However, we can try to change our little piece of it. I spent, while in the service, three years stationed in the FRG. We visited nearly every European country we could get to without crossing the Iron Curtain. I've talked with all kinds of people, an old retired French Marine Major, German farmers on the IGB, an Irish Provo in a London pub, a young Captain in the Japanese Ground Self Defense Force (3rd Engineer Brigade), etc. I've had a wonderful time doing it. An appreciated all these people as PEOPLE (rather than as Americans or not-Americans). So, having said all that, let me get to my opinion. There have been numerous times I've been ashamed to be recognized as an American. (and this is as dangerous as any generalization) My observations have been that many Americans look down their noses at anything not American (or anyone). How many of us even attempt to learn the language, let alone the customs, of another country we may be fortunate enough to visit. And how many of us seem incensed that visitors from other countries don't speak English to our satisfaction? And (to a somewhat lesser degree) how many of us think our way of doing things is better than theirs? So, I try to think hard about this before I go holding America and the good ol' USA up as any sort of shining pillar of ANYTHING. We are one screwed up people but we're lucky enough to live somewhere where we can say things like that and not be visited in the middle of the night by people wearing black. Now, to those of you to whom this sounds like I'm down on my country, remember, I have given a few years of my life to my country. And proudly. But everyone has their faults, as individuals and as societies. Just as an aside to my comment above about having the 'right to have an opinion' I'd like to explain my opinion on that. I try not to have opinions on topics unless I have at least SOME measure of knowledge about that field. After all, how can you form an 'informed' opinion on something you know nothing about? > language, idioms and other American cultural 'flags' simply > because of the background experiences of the designers. But, > I've seen the same from British RPG products as well. > I forget who said it but you have to 'write what you know'. Since we are Americans, it is easier to write from that perspective. > Besides, America is THE place to be these days. > heheheheh...just kidding. > Sure, THE place for frivolous lawsuits, THE place for commuter road rage and people shooting each other from their cars, THE place for Media sensationalism in place of journalistic integrity, THE place for politicians to behave like eight year olds, THE place for crime in the streets of our cities, etc (need I go on?). Jim "Ignore the foam coming from my mouth, I'm not really rabid" Heivilin (no I won't put my BH SIG on this!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kevin C. Carpenter [keepiru@nationwide.net] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 15:46 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Anyways, back on topic...Other dolphin species. Has anyone entertained the idea of how the various species of dolphins differ from each other? I'm assuming that at least some spotted, striped and otherwise were part of the initial uplift, unless they had already all gone extinct by that time. The book notes that most of them are of bottlenose stock, so that sounds to me like there are a few others of differing species. The bottlenose is actually one of the larger dolphin species, reaching a maximum length of 12 feet for males, while spotteds reach only about 8 feet, so that would be one obvious difference other than markings. Their statistical differences wouldn't be as important as their possible personality differences. Some are noted for being particularly more rambunctious, friendly or cautious. It might be a moot point since most dolphin species congregate and interbreed with each other anyway, producing mixed markings and colors. However, there could potentially be some idea of exclusivity among small pockets of spinners or spotteds, if they do exist. Any ideas? - Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 16:58 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: SPAM: [BLUE PLANET] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fire Sal -----Original Message----- From: Hilarion To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM ; postmaster@MPGN.COM ; abuse@MPGN.COM ; root@MPGN.COM Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 2:25 PM Subject: SPAM: [BLUE PLANET] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fire Sal >The minute I want unrelated SPAM in my mailbox is the day I line up for a >barium enema. Delete this fool. If he is the postmaster himself, I'm sure he >knows his UID and what to do with it. Yeah, I have to agree. So, to make it official, commercial email (with the exception of our announcements and plugs, of course) should be posted to appropriate forums, such as rec.games.frp.marketplace. Thanks, Greg Benage Biohazard Games www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kevin C. Carpenter [keepiru@nationwide.net] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 16:01 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Provincialism >So, having said all that, let me get to my opinion. There have been >numerous times I've been ashamed to be recognized as an American. > > (and this is as dangerous as any generalization) >My observations have been that many Americans look down their noses at >anything not American (or anyone). How many of us even attempt to learn >the language, let alone the customs, of another country we may be >fortunate enough to visit. And how many of us seem incensed that >visitors from other countries don't speak English to our satisfaction? >And (to a somewhat lesser degree) how many of us think our way of doing >things is better than theirs? > Hear, hear. And, of course, what a great theme for a BP game. With the reinstatement of the UN, it sounds like there are some stirrings of old governments and maybe a little nationalism here and there. Poseidon, being the new frontier and all, is a great place to try and gain support for your country/agenda/new world order/whatever back home. Not only would it help to possibly garner new followers and allies, but it would weaken the GEO's hold, and weakening the GEO is at the top of the list for many world governments (and Incorporate states) I imagine. Of course, those Incorporates might come crying back to the GEO should some country gain enough power and resources to start stomping all over Incorporate holdings. Provincialism is all too easy a trap for one to fall into, especially in reaction to strange outsiders and foreign customs. I'm sure that is already evident in the way some of the newcomers to Poseidon think about the natives, and perversely, how some of the natives think about the ridiculous Earthers fouling up their planet. There's usually some small grain of truth to criticisms (especially the native critique of Earther abuse of Poseidon) but they start to gather all sorts of unjustified bits that transform it into something more damaging than simple constructive criticism. So, I say take this and run with it. It might put things in a new light for everyone involved with the game. - Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 16:38 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RE: Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Hey! I didn't mean to knock either America or the rest of the world. I am the first to agree that America isn't perfect. All I was doing was opining about the cultural insecurity that *I* have noticed non-Americans seem to display from time to time while trying not to be defensive but educational at the same time. No offense, anybody. And, no. I don't work for Biohazard nor did I try to depict that I was. In fact, since I am responsible for the off-target and apparently controversial path this newsgroup has taken, let me be the first to say ENOUGH. Let's all play nice and concentrate on Blue Planet issues, collectively b*tch at Biohazard for the release of Archipelago, and other pertinent topics. Jeeeezz! At 03:34 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: D. Baughn [mailto:dbaughn@cadence.com] >> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) > >> As an American, it never ceases to amaze me how touchy >> non-Americans have towards all forms of American culture, not >> just RPGs. While we can be quite Americancentric, RPGs tend >> >Disclaimer: First of all, let me say that I am saying the following as >a person and not as someone affiliated with Biohazard. Thus nothing I >say in this missive will in any way be considered to be the >opinion/position of the company. > >Next, let me establish (what I believe) my "right" to have an opinion. >I've spent 13 years of my life in the service of my country (re the U.S. >Army Corps of Engineers) defending it and what it stands for. So don't >come back to me with "If you don't like it, leave!". And leaving >doesn't solve any of what you as a person with an opinion may think is >wrong. Granted we as individuals have little influence over "the world" >(meaning we have limited capability to "change the world"). However, we >can try to change our little piece of it. I spent, while in the >service, three years stationed in the FRG. We visited nearly every >European country we could get to without crossing the Iron Curtain. >I've talked with all kinds of people, an old retired French Marine >Major, German farmers on the IGB, an Irish Provo in a London pub, a >young Captain in the Japanese Ground Self Defense Force (3rd Engineer >Brigade), etc. I've had a wonderful time doing it. An appreciated all >these people as PEOPLE (rather than as Americans or not-Americans). > >So, having said all that, let me get to my opinion. There have been >numerous times I've been ashamed to be recognized as an American. > > (and this is as dangerous as any generalization) >My observations have been that many Americans look down their noses at >anything not American (or anyone). How many of us even attempt to learn >the language, let alone the customs, of another country we may be >fortunate enough to visit. And how many of us seem incensed that >visitors from other countries don't speak English to our satisfaction? >And (to a somewhat lesser degree) how many of us think our way of doing >things is better than theirs? > > >So, I try to think hard about this before I go holding America and the >good ol' USA up as any sort of shining pillar of ANYTHING. We are one >screwed up people but we're lucky enough to live somewhere where we can >say things like that and not be visited in the middle of the night by >people wearing black. Now, to those of you to whom this sounds like I'm >down on my country, remember, I have given a few years of my life to my >country. And proudly. But everyone has their faults, as individuals >and as societies. > >Just as an aside to my comment above about having the 'right to have an >opinion' I'd like to explain my opinion on that. I try not to have >opinions on topics unless I have at least SOME measure of knowledge >about that field. After all, how can you form an 'informed' opinion on >something you know nothing about? > > >> language, idioms and other American cultural 'flags' simply >> because of the background experiences of the designers. But, >> I've seen the same from British RPG products as well. >> >I forget who said it but you have to 'write what you know'. Since we >are Americans, it is easier to write from that perspective. > >> Besides, America is THE place to be these days. >> heheheheh...just kidding. >> >Sure, THE place for frivolous lawsuits, THE place for commuter road rage >and people shooting each other from their cars, THE place for Media >sensationalism in place of journalistic integrity, THE place for >politicians to behave like eight year olds, THE place for crime in the >streets of our cities, etc (need I go on?). > >Jim "Ignore the foam coming from my mouth, I'm not really rabid" >Heivilin >(no I won't put my BH SIG on this!) >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 16:41 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Provincialism Hey, a good idea for a supplement would be "The Enemies of the GEO" where it can talk about national and Incorporate plans against the GEO and provide adventure themes and direction to go in that path. At 04:01 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>So, having said all that, let me get to my opinion. There have been >>numerous times I've been ashamed to be recognized as an American. >> >> (and this is as dangerous as any generalization) >>My observations have been that many Americans look down their noses at >>anything not American (or anyone). How many of us even attempt to learn >>the language, let alone the customs, of another country we may be >>fortunate enough to visit. And how many of us seem incensed that >>visitors from other countries don't speak English to our satisfaction? >>And (to a somewhat lesser degree) how many of us think our way of doing >>things is better than theirs? >> > > >Hear, hear. > >And, of course, what a great theme for a BP game. > > With the reinstatement of the UN, it sounds like there are some >stirrings of old governments and maybe a little nationalism here and there. >Poseidon, being the new frontier and all, is a great place to try and gain >support for your country/agenda/new world order/whatever back home. Not only >would it help to possibly garner new followers and allies, but it would >weaken the GEO's hold, and weakening the GEO is at the top of the list for >many world governments (and Incorporate states) I imagine. Of course, those >Incorporates might come crying back to the GEO should some country gain >enough power and resources to start stomping all over Incorporate holdings. > Provincialism is all too easy a trap for one to fall into, especially in >reaction to strange outsiders and foreign customs. I'm sure that is already >evident in the way some of the newcomers to Poseidon think about the >natives, and perversely, how some of the natives think about the ridiculous >Earthers fouling up their planet. There's usually some small grain of truth >to criticisms (especially the native critique of Earther abuse of Poseidon) >but they start to gather all sorts of unjustified bits that transform it >into something more damaging than simple constructive criticism. > So, I say take this and run with it. It might put things in a new light >for everyone involved with the game. > >- Kevin > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 16:33 To: 'blue_planet@MPGN.COM' Subject: RE: SPAM: [BLUE PLANET] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fir e Sale > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Benage [mailto:gbenage@ix.netcom.com] > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hilarion > Subject: SPAM: [BLUE PLANET] - Rob's Going out of the RPG > Business Fire Sale > > Yeah, I have to agree. So, to make it official, commercial > email (with the exception of our announcements and plugs, of course) > should be posted to appropriate forums, such as rec.games.frp.marketplace. > In general I'm more inclined to give Rob a break since he has provided a TON of support for this list as well as a place for the list itself FREE. And he doesn't do this as a matter of course, rather as a matter of exception. However, it might have been better if he hadn't sent such a long note and only made the announcement and where to find more info. But then my opinion of spam mail is much more relaxed than many people's, after all, I know where the delete key is and I know how to filter my email. If I REALLY don't want to get someone's messages I can set my email program up to delete it even before I ever see it. (Jeff & Greg's word is law so only take my comments as an opinion) Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games ccbanzai@showme.missouri.edu http://www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 16:55 To: 'blue_planet@MPGN.COM' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Apology (was: Countries in Space) > -----Original Message----- > From: D. Baughn [mailto:dbaughn@cadence.com] > Hey! I didn't mean to knock either America or the rest of > the world. I am the first to agree that America isn't > but educational at the same time. No offense, anybody. > I'm sorry. Apparently you hit one of those trigger phrases and Mr. Hyde took over for a little while. I don't mean to be insulting to anyone. > And, no. I don't work for Biohazard nor did I try to depict > that I was. In fact, since I am responsible for the > I didn't mean to imply that you did, I just wanted to make it clear I was speaking as Jim the gamer not Jim the Biohazard Webmaster. And I only post this after the conclusion to apologize to D. Baughn and the list, not to continue an unpleasant thread. Although Kevin Carpenter did bring us back OT with his post. Sorry, Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games ccbanzai@showme.missouri.edu http://www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: R. Stefko [stefko@westol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 18:10 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) >Well, to be honest. I really like GURPS. But some of the modules just made >me sick. Especially the one called "Alternate Realities" or so. >No offense :-) > >Max Kalus. Ehem, GURPS Alternate Earths was truly awesome (and I believe it was GURPS' best selling supplement). If you're suggesting the book was entirely American-centric, I beg to differ. While Dixie did focus primarily on the USA and CSA, and Gernsback was a weird mixture of American pulp science fiction, they were the minority. Reich-5 was dominated by European and Asian fascists; Roma Aeterna was a Roman Empire survival; Ezcalli was a bizarre place where Aztec culture survived into the industrial age; and Shikaku-mon, perhaps the most original alternate timeline I've ever seen, was a world in which Japan was Christianized and the European monarchies survived into the 21st century. Hardly American-centric. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 18:30 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) I'm surprised that Steve Jackson Games haven't been working overdrive for an 'Alternate Earths II' supplement. Talk about banking on a winning concept... At 07:10 PM 5/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Well, to be honest. I really like GURPS. But some of the modules just made >me sick. Especially the one called "Alternate Realities" or so. >>No offense :-) >> >>Max Kalus. > >Ehem, GURPS Alternate Earths was truly awesome (and I believe it was GURPS' >best selling supplement). If you're suggesting the book was entirely >American-centric, I beg to differ. While Dixie did focus primarily on the >USA and CSA, and Gernsback was a weird mixture of American pulp science >fiction, they were the minority. Reich-5 was dominated by European and Asian >fascists; Roma Aeterna was a Roman Empire survival; Ezcalli was a bizarre >place where Aztec culture survived into the industrial age; and Shikaku-mon, >perhaps the most original alternate timeline I've ever seen, was a world in >which Japan was Christianized and the European monarchies survived into the >21st century. Hardly American-centric. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.