From: Hilarion [rhogan@mnsi.net] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 2:47 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) On 20-May-98 Max Kalus playfully chanted: [snip very interesting post] | I must admit that this was quite off-topic, but I think it is worth thinking | about in some manner. I regard it as very interesting how cultural attitudes | develop over time. This could be something interesting for BP. | | How would cultures behave and have developed in 2199? | - What impact would have had the global development on India or China? | - Would the world still be dominated by "Amercanization", or will there be | "Chinezation" (think of Blade-Runner) | - Maybe the Germans found their self-respect again and became quite forceful | on | European cultural behavior. (What would the French say to that - still | friendship?) | - Maybe the USA will have had some event which caused them to abandom the | legends of the American dream... | - Maybe the States would be "Mexicanized" :-) | etc. To a certain extent, the States are getting more subsumed culturally with the Mexicans. Or the other way around, it's really hard to tell. 7-11's on every block, but they all have tacos in them. In California and the other southern states, pidgen Spanish is a quiet king; chic in the middle man's crust, and useful below. But whether this is the Mexican culture being served up as an acknowledged equal, or homogenized by marketing, I don't know. I can see several Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep references to pull, besides the obvious heterozygous Street cultures and "the Little People" reference the captain gave Deckard but the backdrop is hard to fulfill, unless it's a "back home to sweet, sweet Earth" episode in your game. | I did not intend to get onto anybody's nerves by telling all that... | | Bye the way. There is a nice (and also very amusing) book about Europeans: | The Europeans | by: Luigi Barzini | published by: Pengiun | It talks about "The imperturbable Brittish", "The Mutable Germans", "The | Quarrelsome French", "The Flexible Italians", "The Careful Dutch" and "The | Baffling Americans" | I definitely recomend it, as it puts light onto cultural strangenesses and | extravagances... This reminds me of the old joke: The European Dream: To be escorted by the Germans, fed by the French, and entertained by the British. The European Nightmare: To be escorted by the French, fed by the British, and entertained by the Germans. Oops! There are so many cultural implications that have to do with simple stereotypes before we even get into the real stuff, that can add a lot of juice in the engine when we're playing. I'm not saying everybody has to have an Inspector Cleausau to have a good time, but there can be a bit of... how can I say it, dry humour?... to break up the actions scenes, the realistic information overload, the quite deadly local marine wildlife and lifestyle, all without breaking stride to make way for the big stuff. --- rhogan@mnsi.net Do we chase our tail or the moon when we follow the path of self-modification with out objectivity? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Max Kalus [max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 1998 14:48 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Heivilin, Jim wrote: > I don't have my book here to verify all the different ethnic or national > groups that settle different areas of the Archipelago but it ISN'T a > solely American place. I'm sure Jason or Greg can provide more details > and I can look in my copy of the book when I get home tonight and post > again. I must agree that BP actually IS quite diverse in culture...Which is something which surprised me, but also was very nice to see. Well, this was more something like a spoiler... Don't take it too seriously :-) But on the other hand... now I got it going... I lived in a few places around the globe (besides Germany, there was one year in the USA and two in Thailand), and visited a lot of others (mostly by back-packing). So you might call me sensitive towards other cultures, because I have seen quite a few. Moreover I come from a country which experiences very low and few feelings toward national pride (due to certain things that happened in the first half of this century), which commonly makes people blind for problems in and quirks of their home-countries. Of course, not everybody in every country acts like the stereotype, but there normally is a certain tendency (if you ever talked to Egyptians you might know what I mean: You can only talk about marriage and kids with them... everything else is hard). This makes me smile upon strange quirks of all countries including my own. Germans are complainers. They think of themselves of being worse of than any other nation on earth, never satisfied with their situation and finding fault in simply everything. This can make you sick! Everything is pessimistic... There was an Italian politician once, who said "Oh, if only the Italians would have a German economic depression! Then we would be well off!". Americans, on the other hand, are extremely megalomanic. I have seldom seen a nation which knows so few things about other cultures (well, it is a great country... why bother about other puny nations after all?). This has good and bad sides, of course. One the good side, I experienced Americans to be somewhat more free of cultural restraints. Europeans tend to have the feeling that there is not much new to happen anymore, for Americans everything is the "first time", making them rather innovative in many fields... One the down side: Well, Disneyland Paris comes to mind... Gee, what did you guys think, when you put it into the capital of France??? Every Basque shepherd and every Swedish woodcutter could have told the Americans that it would be a loss. Ok, it is the most densely settled Area in Europe (Benelux, Ruhr area, Northern France), very high income, good infrastructure, France is cheaper than Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands... but sometimes cultural factors also count... I must admit that this was quite off-topic, but I think it is worth thinking about in some manner. I regard it as very interesting how cultural attitudes develop over time. This could be something interesting for BP. How would cultures behave and have developed in 2199? - What impact would have had the global development on India or China? - Would the world still be dominated by "Amercanization", or will there be "Chinezation" (think of Blade-Runner) - Maybe the Germans found their self-respect again and became quite forceful on European cultural behavior. (What would the French say to that - still friendship?) - Maybe the USA will have had some event which caused them to abandom the legends of the American dream... - Maybe the States would be "Mexicanized" :-) etc. I did not intend to get onto anybody's nerves by telling all that... Bye the way. There is a nice (and also very amusing) book about Europeans: The Europeans by: Luigi Barzini published by: Pengiun It talks about "The imperturbable Brittish", "The Mutable Germans", "The Quarrelsome French", "The Flexible Italians", "The Careful Dutch" and "The Baffling Americans" I definitely recomend it, as it puts light onto cultural strangenesses and extravagances... Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: John M. Kahane [jkahane@comnet.ca] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 4:47 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - A Matter of Skills On Tue, 19 May 1998 17:30:15 -0500 (CDT), William Hindmarch wrote: >> > This would imply that Biology is simply the study of life systems on >> >land and that's all. Marine is a type of biology the same way Astro- is a >> >kind of physics. If Marine Biology is thought to be a separate skill, then >> >we would need new skills for botany, since it's very different than regular >> >biology. Zoology as well. Or Genetics. Blue Planet already has 100 skills, >> >which seem pretty prolific as is. Over-specialize and you breed in weakness. >> >> That is a good argument, Will, although I think we've both seen >> game systems where this sort of thing has been done. I was very fond >> of the RINGWORLD rpg for precisely the reason I mention - one has the >> general skill, Biology, and then got to choose sub-specialties within >> the skill. I think that BLUE PLANET's skill system works fine, but >> there are a few skills I will add. Not Marine Biology or >> Oceanography, I might add. :) > Well, sure. A good idea. New skills should probably crop up to deal >with specific campaign situations. I actually had someone in a game take the >"Clubbing" skill (as in discoteques), and it was great. Different games use >different details in a skill list, and there is no right way to do it. I think that's precisely it. Game skills should reflect what the players wish their characters to have. If a player wants a skill pertaining to discoteques, such as "Clubbing" skill, then the GM should permit this. Different games do use different details and levels of skills, but that's one of the nice things about various games. FADING SUNS's skills list should be different than those found in BLUE PLANET, since the game universe is different in each of these games. And it's the game universe that skill systems usually reflect. >I personally, like specializations and such because they allow for flavorful >illustration of individual characters. I'm not sure that BP's skill system >allows for it (smoothly). I don't think that BLUE PLANET is particularly suited to the addition of skills for the most part, but that impression may be wrong, and we'll see how the matter of this continues once some of the supplements for the game come out. The allotment of points during the Profession choice to Skill Groups makes the addition of new skills very easy, I think, since once you decide what Skll Group a new skill fits into, you've got characters who might take the skill, and get the bonus for the Skill Geroup in their profession if it fits. I don't think that this is all that much of a big deal, but you never know. Guess we'll have to see what others think. :) >Percentile systems can get strange if they get too complicated, in my experience. This is true. RINGWORLD suffered somewhat from over-complexity, and yet DRAGONQUEST (the fantasy rpg that I have been running forever, it seems ) doesn't have this problem at all. Both systems are based on percentiles. ... Standards are wonderful; there's *so* many to choose from! JohnK jkahane@comnet.ca http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: John M. Kahane [jkahane@comnet.ca] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 4:37 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Skill Missing? On Tue, 19 May 1998 10:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Fred Langen wrote: >>>Yeah, I don't think there's a need for a specific Sports skill either. If >>>you want a character skilled in, say, hydroshot, just put lots of points >>>into Aquatics, Throwing (or should it be Archery?) and Physical Training... > > While that's fine and dandy, I think the real problem is that > >if one wanted to have a good Hydroshot Sport skill to reflect that > >one had been a really good Hydroshot player as a younger man, and > >then had to abandon that in favour of a profession after being, say > >seriously injured, one would end up putting a lot of points into the > >Hydroshot skills above, and not into the profession that one is > >currently active in. That's the real difficulty with the multi-skill > >"ability," imo. >*Easy fix!* Naturally. There are easy fixes for most things in rpgs. :) >If you're going to check against someone who's injured, have the injured person >check with a scandalous penalty. Or if you feel that it should be judged by >abilities, then check against his attributes instead of the skills. Or make >a skill and you can have it start at his athletics skill (plus or minus some >bonus/penalty depending on how difficult it is). That section above provides a pretty good basis for solving this problem, I think, and has some nice solutions presented. I get the feeling you love doing this sort of thing, don't you? >I mean, Blue Planet is about the flavor and color of the world, not about >the mechanics. Why let the mechanics be a problem at all. It's not really about letting the mechanics being a problem. It's a matter of coming up with a solution to some aspect of the mechanics that hadn't been thought of during the design phase or whatever. However, this is what roleplaying games are all about.... There's that element of solving situations that arise in rpg sessions. You're right about the game being about the flavour and the colour of the world; sometimes the mechanics problems are fun to play with, too. :) ... Virus found - Windows95. (C)lean (W)ipe (I)nstall OS/2 Warp JohnK jkahane@comnet.ca http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Disturbnce [Disturbnce@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 11:57 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) In a message dated 98-05-21 07:54:44 EDT, you write: > block, but they all have tacos in them. In California and the other > southern states, pidgen Spanish is a quiet king; chic in the middle man's crust, > and useful below. In Nashville, TN and Chicago, IL, Spanish is quite a useful language, having lived in both places. On the other hand, if you live in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, it's a good thing to be familiar with Indian cultures and languages, as there's a massive Northern and Southern Indian population. Big enough that India's 50th anniversary was a city festival. Chicago is very multicultural; while Hispanic influence is the most noticeable, there's a lot of other stuff going on here... driving down Irving Park, you pass through a Korean section, where the signs are not in English lettering, go by a Russian meat market/butcher, see a couple of Punjabi-type restaurants, that sort of thing. The department I work in, at IBM, has all sorts of interesting people. I've been learning Punjabi cooking from the guy in the next cubicle, who's a Sikh, which is what got me thinking about Sikhism in the BP universe. It's a matter of where you are in the States, I think, as to whether or not you're awake to other cultures around you. I like the provincialism idea brought up earlier. Poseidon offers a chance for many cultures and subcultures to set up their own enclaves in a new environment, and there's bound to be splinter colonies, especially in places like the Belt and the far side of Poseidon from Pacifica. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: D. Baughn [dbaughn@cadence.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 12:13 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Americans are that way -- as I think it -- because they live on a comparatively isolated continent that they culturally dominate. The only 'foreign' country a lot of Americans have been to is Mexico. Canada is not very different. Whereas, Euros are used to crossing borders and calculating exchange rates and also learn more languages and learn them better than Yanks do. When an American is in Berlin and needs to exchange money, he thinks, "Now, how in the hell do I do this again?". Plus, he worries about getting cheated because he couldn't calculate it himself. Not all are like that (I picked it up myself), but most are because of the effects that the aforementioned geographical isolation has had on American culture. BTW, before anyone yells and screams, I'm an American myself. As to future cultural trends, America is already being Mexicanized to a certain extent. But, elements of American culture are also holding their own by being wholeheartedly adopted (for good or bad) by the large Hispanic community. Plus, it is making inroads into Mexican culture. What is really telling: Santa Claus is becoming more popular than the Mexican Three Kings in Mexico. Of course, there are reactionaries on both sides of the border, but a future North America centuries from now will no doubt be more homogenized -- maybe even politically unified. In the world of Blue Planet, political unification is not the case, but maybe portions of Northern Mexico and Canada became part of the US over the years. It is a thought for Biohazard to consider if/when they choose to flesh out a more detailed NorthAm continent. At 09:48 PM 5/20/98 +0200, Max Kalus wrote: >Heivilin, Jim wrote: > >> I don't have my book here to verify all the different ethnic or national >> groups that settle different areas of the Archipelago but it ISN'T a >> solely American place. I'm sure Jason or Greg can provide more details >> and I can look in my copy of the book when I get home tonight and post >> again. > >I must agree that BP actually IS quite diverse in culture...Which is something >which surprised me, but also was very nice to see. > >Well, this was more something like a spoiler... Don't take it too seriously :-) > >But on the other hand... now I got it going... >I lived in a few places around the globe (besides Germany, there was one year >in the USA and two in Thailand), and visited a lot of others (mostly by >back-packing). So you might call me sensitive towards other cultures, because I >have seen quite a few. Moreover I come from a country which experiences very >low and few feelings toward national pride (due to certain things that happened >in the first half of this century), which commonly makes people blind for >problems in and quirks of their home-countries. Of course, not everybody in >every country acts like the stereotype, but there normally is a certain >tendency (if you ever talked to Egyptians you might know what I mean: You can >only talk about marriage and kids with them... everything else is hard). >This makes me smile upon strange quirks of all countries including my own. >Germans are complainers. They think of themselves of being worse of than any >other nation on earth, never satisfied with their situation and finding fault >in simply everything. This can make you sick! Everything is pessimistic... >There was an Italian politician once, who said "Oh, if only the Italians would >have a German economic depression! Then we would be well off!". >Americans, on the other hand, are extremely megalomanic. I have seldom seen a >nation which knows so few things about other cultures (well, it is a great >country... why bother about other puny nations after all?). This has good and >bad sides, of course. One the good side, I experienced Americans to be somewhat >more free of cultural restraints. Europeans tend to have the feeling that there >is not much new to happen anymore, for Americans everything is the "first >time", making them rather innovative in many fields... One the down side: Well, >Disneyland Paris comes to mind... Gee, what did you guys think, when you put it >into the capital of France??? Every Basque shepherd and every Swedish >woodcutter could have told the Americans that it would be a loss. Ok, it is the >most densely settled Area in Europe (Benelux, Ruhr area, Northern France), very >high income, good infrastructure, France is cheaper than Germany, Belgium or >the Netherlands... but sometimes cultural factors also count... > >I must admit that this was quite off-topic, but I think it is worth thinking >about in some manner. I regard it as very interesting how cultural attitudes >develop over time. This could be something interesting for BP. > >How would cultures behave and have developed in 2199? >- What impact would have had the global development on India or China? >- Would the world still be dominated by "Amercanization", or will there be >"Chinezation" (think of Blade-Runner) >- Maybe the Germans found their self-respect again and became quite forceful on >European cultural behavior. (What would the French say to that - still >friendship?) >- Maybe the USA will have had some event which caused them to abandom the >legends of the American dream... >- Maybe the States would be "Mexicanized" :-) >etc. > >I did not intend to get onto anybody's nerves by telling all that... > >Bye the way. There is a nice (and also very amusing) book about Europeans: >The Europeans >by: Luigi Barzini >published by: Pengiun >It talks about "The imperturbable Brittish", "The Mutable Germans", "The >Quarrelsome French", "The Flexible Italians", "The Careful Dutch" and "The >Baffling Americans" >I definitely recomend it, as it puts light onto cultural strangenesses and >extravagances... > >Max Kalus. > > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Hilarion [rhogan@mnsi.net] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 8:27 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) On 21-May-98 D. Baughn playfully chanted: | Americans are that way -- as I think it -- because they live on a | comparatively isolated continent that they culturally dominate. The only | 'foreign' country a lot of Americans have been to is Mexico. Canada is not | very different. Speaking as a Canadian (heh), I'd argue the contrary. We're a more openly pluralized society than the Americans, more embarassed, less open, and considered "mostly friendly" by the Americans. I could prove my point with examples, but I find the ones that come to mind too embarrassing... ;)~ Of course, it would take an American to think they lived in isolation. (ducks...) | Whereas, Euros are used to crossing borders and calculating exchange rates | and also learn more languages and learn them better than Yanks do. Do they really, though? I think that has more to do with class over here than culture. Or maybe both are the same thing. That could be the larger demographic trait of North America, though--a class system that is inherently at cultural odds with each other. | Of course, there are reactionaries on both sides of the border, but a future | North America centuries from now will no doubt be more homogenized -- maybe | even politically unified. | | In the world of Blue Planet, political unification is not the case, but maybe | portions of Northern Mexico and Canada became part of the US over the years. | It is a thought for Biohazard to consider if/when they choose to flesh out a | more detailed NorthAm continent. It always seems that everybody thinks that we're all going to be one big happy family, but I really never thought of it as a possibility: one country _remains_ having a large chunk of land with a small population, another a small chunk of land and high population density, and the third a plurality of Central American nations in some respects. All three of these could never become one--by demographics alone, they will always be apart. Even with Free (or Fair) Trade, this will never happen. In this, I think I find it affirming that BP didn't take that path in its timeline/background. --- rhogan@mnsi.net Do we chase our tail or the moon when we follow the path of self-modification with out objectivity? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: tun kai poh [poh@cis.ohio-state.edu] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 12:50 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Since we're on the topic, one particularly entertaining and intriguing sf short story by Bruce Sterling, "We See Things Differently," looks at a future dominated by a united Middle East, and served as the template for my version of the UIR. It's a great little story about a broken American Dream, the persistence of narrow-minded provincialism, and the power of rock'n'roll, all through the eyes of a Muslim journalist. It was printed in a couple of places, but the only one I can think of right now is Semiotext(e) SF. Juicy stuff, and relevant, too. Kai Poh *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kevin C. Carpenter [keepiru@nationwide.net] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 12:52 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - The Americas . > >In the world of Blue Planet, political unification is not the case, but maybe portions of Northern Mexico and Canada became part of the US over the years. It is a thought for Biohazard to consider if/when they choose to flesh out a more detailed NorthAm continent. > Well, one thing to keep in mind is the spectre of the Blight. With so many billions dead, I would have to think that just about every culture was completely turned on its ear and either they dissapeared, merged or survived in some noticably changed state. After two centuries and hundreds of millions dead, I bet the Americas are a radically changed place, even though they suffered less than some areas of the world. At least in North America, the coasts would be dotted with new urban enclaves shrouded in rings of the old and decayed skeletons of the cities that were there before the blight, while the more rural areas might have survived better but are now fortress-like towns and small, scattered settlements. This is the impression I got from what I've read about post-Blight America. Correct me if I'm wrong. - Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 13:04 To: 'blue_planet@MPGN.COM' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) > ---------- > From: Disturbnce > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few > Comments) > > In a message dated 98-05-21 07:54:44 EDT, you write: > > It's a matter of where you are in the States, I think, as to whether > or not > you're awake to other cultures around you. > I think it's also a measure of the person. There were innumerable people (soldiers and their families) who spent their entire three year tour in Europe complaining about how it wasn't America. I enjoyed getting out and seeing things and meeting people. And consequently I have wonderful memories of my time there. They, on the other hand, often have miserable memories. Overall, I win! Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games mailto:ccbanzai@showme.missouri.edu http://www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Max Kalus [max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 13:07 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Hilarion wrote: > Speaking as a Canadian (heh), I'd argue the contrary. We're a more openly > pluralized society than the Americans, more embarassed, less open, and > considered "mostly friendly" by the Americans. I could prove my point with > examples, but I find the ones that come to mind too embarrassing... ;)~ Of > course, it would take an American to think they lived in isolation. (ducks...) Yes, that's true, but compared to European regionalism, America as a whole seems to be rather homogenous. I live in the state of Bavaria, in the city of Augsburg, which is not a Bavarian, but a Swabian city (happened to get to Bavaria in the early 1800s). But the Swabians in Bavaria despise the Swabians in the state Baden-Württemberg, but also dislike Bavarians... etc. pp. Compared to America the regions are much smaller, normaly at least sub-nation or even sub-state/province level. Sometimes the village next door talks and acts differently... Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Max Kalus [max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 13:10 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Hilarion wrote: > This reminds me of the old joke: > > The European Dream: > To be escorted by the Germans, > fed by the French, > and entertained by the British. > > The European Nightmare: > To be escorted by the French, > fed by the British, > and entertained by the Germans. Too true :-) Although I don't like French food myself... Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 13:15 To: 'blue_planet@MPGN.COM' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) > ---------- > From: Max Kalus > > Yes, that's true, but compared to European regionalism, America as a > whole seems to be rather homogenous. I live in the state of Bavaria, in the city of > Augsburg, which is not a Bavarian, but a Swabian city (happened to get to > Bavaria in the early 1800s). But the Swabians in Bavaria despise the Swabians in the > state Baden-Württemberg, but also dislike Bavarians... etc. pp. Compared to > America the regions are much smaller, normaly at least sub-nation or even > sub-state/province level. Sometimes the village next door talks and acts differently... > And the people living there have had a lot longer to develop and hold these grudges. Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games mailto:ccbanzai@showme.missouri.edu http://www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: tun kai poh [poh@cis.ohio-state.edu] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 13:29 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Americas > Well, one thing to keep in mind is the spectre of the Blight. With so > many billions dead, I would have to think that just about every culture was > completely turned on its ear and either they dissapeared, merged or survived > in some noticably changed state. After two centuries and hundreds of > millions dead, I bet the Americas are a radically changed place, even though > they suffered less than some areas of the world. Definitely one of the as-yet unexplored campaign areas: Earth, the World of Hurt, and the original blue planet. A number of my players took Free Zone characters for the whole "Mad Max" background thing, which is pretty cool, if somewhat stereotyped. I'd like to see some sort of sample adventure (or adventure seed) that makes use of Earth, to allow characters to start an adventure on one planet and end up on the other. Granted, the travel time makes this a bit tough...but it's still possible. And I suppose we should see an Earth sourcebook at some point, right? I'd certainly like to see a history section detailing exactly how the Blight allowed the current balance between the GEO, Incorporates and independent nations to develop. Side note: when I first laid eyes on the main book's contents page, I thought "A World Of Hurt" was the combat rules section... Kai Poh Otaku no Bataku *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Hilarion [rhogan@mnsi.net] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 9:51 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) On 21-May-98 Max Kalus playfully chanted: | Yes, that's true, but compared to European regionalism, America as a whole | seems to be rather homogenous. I live in the state of Bavaria, in the city of | Augsburg, which is not a Bavarian, but a Swabian city (happened to get to Bavaria in | the early 1800s). But the Swabians in Bavaria despise the Swabians in the state | Baden-Württemberg, but also dislike Bavarians... etc. pp. Compared to America | the regions are much smaller, normaly at least sub-nation or even | sub-state/province level. Sometimes the village next door talks and acts differently... That is a very interesting point. In terms of that scale, I can agree with you. There is a fair bit of regionalism over here, but in the States, sheer population density leads itself to larger regions. I can imagine the politics and prejudice from what you say; I don't think there's any parallel over on this continent. But language barriers exist over here. I live less than five minutes away from a border route, and yet I cannot fathom AT ALL a good 5% of the population over there, depending on where they were born, because dialectically we have absolutely nothing in common, whereas a friend who has lived in this area his entire life has absolutely no trouble understanding a store clerk, for instance. I imagine the scale of such must go lower, per city and village over there if one is to parallel the inference. --- rhogan@mnsi.net Do we chase our tail or the moon when we follow the path of self-modification with out objectivity? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: R. Stefko [stefko@westol.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 14:38 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) >Since we're on the topic, one particularly entertaining and intriguing sf >short story by Bruce Sterling, "We See Things Differently," looks at a >future dominated by a united Middle East, and served as the template for >my version of the UIR. It's a great little story about a broken American >Dream, the persistence of narrow-minded provincialism, and the power of >rock'n'roll, all through the eyes of a Muslim journalist. It was printed in a >couple of places, but the only one I can think of right now is Semiotext(e) >SF. > >Juicy stuff, and relevant, too. > >Kai Poh Yeah, Kai. I've read that one in Sterling's Globalhead anthology. Sterling seems to have a thing for high-tech Islam, 'cause he also wrote a story called "Allah, the Compassionate, the Digital" in which a future Islamic republic utilizes pious Artificial Intelligences (yes, the AIs are practicing Moslems) to create a type of stargate technology that unravels the "fractal pattern" of the universe, allowing FTL travel. And then there's the whole "When Gravity Fails" series by George Alec Effinger. R. Stefko *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: R. Stefko [stefko@westol.com] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 15:52 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Since we're on the topic of nations in space . . . A few months ago I created a political framework for post-Blight Earth, based on information gleaned from BP, as well as my own speculations. The framework is essentially a list of nations, Incorporates, and GEO administrative regions, organized by continent, and accompanied by the names of their capital cities. If anyone is interested in seeing this list, send email to stefko@westol.com. I'll be happy to send a copy as a file attachment (it's formatted for Wordperfect, but I could always send it in ASCII). And please, once you've read it, tell me what you think. I can use some comments and corrections. R. Stefko *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Max Kalus [max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 16:06 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Countries in Space (was: A Few Comments) Hilarion wrote: > That is a very interesting point. In terms of that scale, I can agree with > you. There is a fair bit of regionalism over here, but in the States, > sheer population density leads itself to larger regions. I can imagine the > politics and prejudice from what you say; I don't think there's any parallel > over on this continent. But language barriers exist over here. I live less > than five minutes away from a border route, and yet I cannot fathom AT ALL a > good 5% of the population over there, depending on where they were born, > because dialectically we have absolutely nothing in common, whereas a friend > who has lived in this area his entire life has absolutely no trouble > understanding a store clerk, for instance. I imagine the scale of such must go > lower, per city and village over there if one is to parallel the inference. And now imagine Posseidon... Better learn hand signs :-) It should be a tower of Babel, which makes for some interesting plot twists... Imagine finding an essential data file - written in Serbo-Croatian... I see PCs frantically searching for a translation program or somebody who can read it. Wasn't the old barkeeper in the last village Croatian? Ah, heck I can't remember... maybe he was Armenian, or something like that :-) Max Kalus. Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Max Kalus [max.kalus@student.uni-augsburg.de] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 16:14 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Disasters (was: The Americas) Kevin C. Carpenter wrote: > Well, one thing to keep in mind is the spectre of the Blight. With so > many billions dead, I would have to think that just about every culture was > completely turned on its ear and either they dissapeared, merged or survived > in some noticably changed state. After two centuries and hundreds of > millions dead, I bet the Americas are a radically changed place, even though > they suffered less than some areas of the world. Actually, this is an interesting point! I am just doing some research on the Black Plague around 1350, and its effects on the people. Here are some interesting points: - an estimated 1/3 of the whole population died within a few years (although there were areas that the Plague did not reach, others were hit harder...) - some people reacted by getting very religious, others just took on the mentality that any day could be their last - so they partied... - labour became more expensive, agriculture less intensive (diverse fruits, ranching, etc.) - this caused the development of new technologies... - many areas were depopulized Well, I think that Biohazard did a good job in developing BP along realistic lines... Maybe they even had a look onto such great disasters... Max Kalus. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [fskln1@aurora.alaska.edu] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 22:51 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Americas tun kai poh wrote: > > Definitely one of the as-yet unexplored campaign areas: Earth, the World of > Hurt, and the original blue planet. A number of my players took Free Zone > characters for the whole "Mad Max" background thing, which is pretty cool, if > somewhat stereotyped. And Earth sounds as interesting as Poseidon to pley on. I was going to compare it to parts of the timeline for Steve Jackson Games' Car Wars. > I'd like to see some sort of sample adventure (or adventure seed) that makes > use of Earth, to allow characters to start an adventure on one planet and > end up on the other. Granted, the travel time makes this a bit tough...but it's > still possible. And I suppose we should see an Earth sourcebook at some point, > right? I'd certainly like to see a history section detailing exactly how the > Blight allowed the current balance between the GEO, Incorporates and > independent nations to develop. Actually, I'm planning on sending my group out to the Serpentis asteroid belt, eventually. Depending on how well I set up the Incorporates, and what leads they follow, the 8-month trip to earth could be in the cards. The trips to space could be hard on the fin, tho. > Side note: when I first laid eyes on the main book's contents page, I thought > "A World Of Hurt" was the combat rules section... Me too. Actually, my two favorite things about the game system are the fact that it's nearly nonexistant (only Over the Edge has a shorter section on how/when to roll dice), and the realism of the combat system. -- (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk. Auberon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [fskln1@aurora.alaska.edu] Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 1998 23:02 To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Provincialism Someone's recent comment about hand signs reminded me -- some friends of mine went to China recently. Apparently, dfferent languages and dialects are such a problem there, that they've got hand signs for numbers, so that while it's hard to order in a restaurant (for instance), they can at least tell you how much you have to pay. -- (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk. Auberon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.