From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:44 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels In a message dated 6/25/01 11:57:15 PM Central Daylight Time, chalz@earthlink.net writes: > > Your costs assume your paying a highish wage to your crew, complete with > > entertainment! I would assume native familys and newcomer groups live on > and > Yes. If I recall correctly from the character templates - like the bush > pilot - from the PG, 100cs/day is quite a high wage. The 100 cs/day is not the wage. It is the total cost of employing that person. It includes the cost of medical insurance, life insurance, retirement program, AD&D insurance, vaction time, room, board, taxes, and any other perks that the company offers. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:18 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > > One of the advantages of cargo subs is that they are harder > > to locate by satellite. This was one of the points they used in > > a Cyberpunk book. "Flashpoint" I think it was. > > Why is this an advantage for a _cargo_ sub. We're not talking military here. > Nobody's going to be tracking you for a kill. Well, maybe pirates, but I > doubt they would be common enough to make that a real advantage, except in a > very cinematic campaign. I don't know. Particularly valuable material/data/people could be wanted by some rival or another, if not pirates. And hell, if these things are floating around freely, piracy WOULD become easy and popular. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: thazar@globalnet.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:37 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels It got me thinking, about using >sails more like aerofoils than to collect wind and be pushed. It's pretty >trippy. I wonder if it's feasible out on the open sea? Where do you think the idea came from? 'Kite' Sails have been around for a while....a development of the Spinaker. For long Distance cruising with constant favourable winds they can work well (down in the trade winds frex)......as a supplement to more traditional sail rigs. Water World had a small one on Kevs Kat. DomT ------------------------------------------------ Global WebMail - Delivered by Global Internet www.global.net.uk ------------------------------------------------ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:37 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels --- Ml10@aol.com wrote: > It includes the cost of medical insurance, life insurance, > retirement program, AD&D insurance,... Insurance to cover the trauma of being reduced to playing dungeons and Dragons? Where can I get some:) ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:44 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels --- thazar@globalnet.co.uk wrote: > Mike is thinking Corperate still.....and I say the bulk of cargo will > be moved to the out Colonys by small outfits that havent even heard > of a retirement program. Again, THAT IS WHAT HE IS SAYING, that large slow moving ships like that will NOT be used in that capacity. His initial statement was that such vessels would be inefficient in supplying most of the settlements, and then he has gone on to explain WHY they will be inefficient. You all are agreeing with his point. ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jerome Darmont [jdarmont@dionysos.univ-lyon2.fr] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 6:18 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetacean daily living At 13:48 25/06/01 -0700, Adam Lewis wrote: >Do you think cetaceans have private residences? IIRC, some own at least temporary shelters (light, modular structures) where the store their beings. Some of these floating shelters are only partly immerged so that human friends can visit (and non-waterproof items stored, but I guess there are not many non-waterproof items on Poseidon). -- Jérôme Darmont, mailto:darmont@free.fr, http://fly.to/bleue.planete *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Adam Lewis [adamswork@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:38 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Cetacean daily living --- Sir Charles wrote: > Hey, I LIKE that idea! A dolphin with a pierced > blow-hole - hehehe!! > Ha! I was thinking something a little less drastic, but you never know. I was considering their raised intelligence and I was thinking that cetaceans may want to develope their own visual individuality (style). Since clothing and hairstyle is out, that doesn't leave much. AdamL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: randell.wolff@murraystate.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:47 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Dolphins and individuality The Player's Guide mentions that many dolphins use their remotes in order to express their individuality to humans, decorating them with lights and images and such, since humans often can't tell them apart in person. I'm sure that dolphins have ways of telling each other apart, visually and (probably most important) sonically, so individualism would be expressed in sounds. I tend to think that dolphins would leave their own bodies alone; their conception of art and individuality is probably much different than a humans, so I doubt they would emulate humans in this regard (i.e. with tattoos and piercings). Remember, ceteceans are in human terms quite alien. Randell Wolff randell.wolff@murraystate.edu "Family names do not come from nowhere. Every Smith has an ancestor somewhere who was a smith. Every Fisher comes from a family that once fished. And your name is Wolf." -- Anthony Boucher, "The Compleat Werewolf" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: thazar@globalnet.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:20 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels >On the subject of pirates, they are still unfortunately common in our world >today. They mostly target luxury yachts and small sail craft on their own, >but do sometimes go after small cargo vesels. Attacks on Larger Container Vessels and Oil Tankers are increasingly common...normally with the aim of robbing or ransoming the crew rather than stealing cargo. This is particularly common in the Far East. Attacks of Merchant Shipping are also common of the coast of Central and South America. The Royal Navy's Carib' Guard Ships have attacked and destroyed several small boats engaged in 'Piracy on the High Seas' over the last 5 years. There were questions asked in both the Us Senate and Uk Houses of Parliment on this subject in the last few months. There are a number of companys working out of Singapore and simmilar places offering 'free-lance armed security consultants' (aka Mercenarys) which go aboard larger vessels before they enter particularly pirate prone areas..... DomT ------------------------------------------------ Global WebMail - Delivered by Global Internet www.global.net.uk ------------------------------------------------ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: randell.wolff@murraystate.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:46 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels LOL! I recently got a new job, and it provides insurance (the first job I've ever had that does). When the human resources director said that she'd like to discuss my AD&D coverage with me, I just said, "huh." "Accidental Death and Dismemberment," she replied. "Oh." ;-) Randell Wolff randell.wolff@murraystate.edu "Family names do not come from nowhere. Every Smith has an ancestor somewhere who was a smith. Every Fisher comes from a family that once fished. And your name is Wolf." -- Anthony Boucher, "The Compleat Werewolf" -- Begin original message -- > From: Corax@aol.com > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:36:27 EDT > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > To: > Reply-To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com > > > It includes the cost of medical insurance, life insurance, > > retirement program, AD&D insurance,... > > Insurance to cover the trauma of being reduced to playing dungeons and > Dragons? Where can I get some:)<< > > Unfortunatly, they do not acept thouse that are allready infected. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > -- End original message -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:29 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels In a message dated 6/26/01 2:30:49 AM Central Daylight Time, thazar@globalnet.co.uk writes: > Mike is thinking Corperate still.....and I say the bulk of cargo will be > moved to the out Colonys by small outfits that havent even heard of a > retirement program. Yup, I am still thinking corporate. Most of the manufacturing on Poseidon is done by the Incorportates in their own cities. These goods have to be shipped across Poseidon somehow. I figure that the bulk ships would transport these goods to the other major colonies. From there, the smaller outfits would transport the goods to the smaller colonies. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 10:37 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels At 02:19 PM 6/26/01 +0100, you wrote: >On the subject of pirates, they are still unfortunately common in our world >today. They mostly target luxury yachts and small sail craft on their own, >but do sometimes go after small cargo vesels. Attacks on Larger Container Vessels and Oil Tankers are increasingly common...normally with the aim of robbing or ransoming the crew rather than stealing cargo. This is particularly common in the Far East. Attacks of Merchant Shipping are also common of the coast of Central and South America. The Royal Navy's Carib' Guard Ships have attacked and destroyed several small boats engaged in 'Piracy on the High Seas' over the last 5 years. There were questions asked in both the Us Senate and Uk Houses of Parliment on this subject in the last few months. There are a number of companys working out of Singapore and simmilar places offering 'free-lance armed security consultants' (aka Mercenarys) which go aboard larger vessels before they enter particularly pirate prone areas..... I've read about this phenomenon as well, which has been helped by the fact that modern supertankers are so highly automated that they require a crew of less than 10 people, which is great from an efficiency standpoint, but it means that a small group of armed pirates can easily take the ship. In contrast to the stated opinion above, in the article I read, it was said that usually the goal was the cargo of a supertanker. If you can hijack a tanker full of oil, that's worth millions of dollars when sold (don't ask me where you sell a hundred thousand barrels of crude oil). Also, these "security consultant" companies can also be hired to find hijacked ships and help get them back, which would make a pretty good adventure for the more trigger-happy adventurers out there.... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:35 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > In contrast to the stated opinion above, in the article I read, it was said that usually the goal was the cargo of a supertanker. If you can hijack a tanker full of oil, that's worth millions of dollars when sold (don't ask me where you sell a hundred thousand barrels of crude oil). China, I believe. That's where I read about one being sold, anyway. They eventually got the ship back, but not the oil. Note though that my point wasn't, "piracy doesn't exist in RL" but "I doubt piracy would attain high enough levels in BP to justify building cargo container _submersibles_." There seems to be a lot of misinterpretation on the list in the last few days. I would think that the easiest thing to do would be to, if you wanted to avoid piracy, would be to make a regular ship and just have armed guards on board. Piracy (at least the way it exists now) pretty much depends on the crew being helpless to repel any sort of armed attack. If pirates were likely to be shot to death on boarding a ship, it would probably be a less popular option. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Piracy links Here are 2 of my favorite piracy links: http://paladin-san-francisco.com/libpirac.htm http://www.iccwbo.org/ccs/menu_imb_piracy.asp It took me a while to find these. I had them bookmarked under taxes.... Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:15 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Wills > > Note though that my point wasn't, "piracy doesn't exist in RL" but "I doubt > piracy would attain high enough levels in BP to justify building cargo > container _submersibles_." There seems to be a lot of misinterpretation on > the list in the last few days. > > -Andy > Either that or the discussion drifted. I was using RL to justify the existance of piracy in BP, Long John especially would make a tempting target. And there is the geography, a lot of backwater unexplored space, lots of islands and coves to base out of, few law enforcement personel, all in all a situation not unlike the Spanish Main. I agree completely that the level of piracy is unlikely to lead to the development of cargo-container shipping subs, there isn't enough cargo, nor enough people to turn pirate to justify that kind of expense. Better to just send a few extra guards along with the valuable cargoes, and rember that the big empty ocean works both ways, if you leave the standard shipping lanes your plump cargo becomes a needle in a haystack.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dom Twist [thazar@globalnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Piracy links Pretty Cool > Here are 2 of my favorite piracy links: All check out....... http://www.clydesite.co.uk/mattersmarine/020101-1.html http://www.somaliawatch.org/archive/000129105.htm (Mercs at work) DomT *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:25 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > And of course there are all those Long John prospectors who are just begging > to be hit. Hmmm maybe I should go watch "Treasure of the Sierra Madres" > again.... Or for you Rutger Hauer/Bryon James folk, 'Precious Find' ;) Not that it's a spectacular movie - but along the same lines. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:32 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > Sail-as Hydrofoil has been around for *ages*! > It's how 'tacking' works. Uhh.. it's not a hydrofoil. That's in the water. ;) However, it's a matter more of using the 'sail' *just* as an aerofoil, and not as a billowing catch-the-wind device. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:30 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > There are a number of companys working out of Singapore and simmilar places offering 'free-lance armed security consultants' (aka Mercenarys) which go aboard larger vessels before they enter particularly pirate prone areas..... This in itself forming a brand of piracy - the protection racket. "Sure, my guys will protect you. And believe me, with my men along, you won't be attacked at all! .... of course, without my men, well, you'll be seeing them later, don't worry..." ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > Mike is thinking Corperate still.....and I say the bulk of cargo will be moved to the out Colonys by small outfits that havent even heard of a retirement program. Same here. It's going to be small, private groups which deal with the colonies; most likely a whole chain of these groups. Again, 'The Reality Dysfunction' has wonderful examples of this. As far as the 'retirement' bit, it's very possible it'd just be a family business sort of thing. There's a pizza place nearby here which was opened by an Italian immigrant, and he ran it until he just physically couldn't do it anymore. What ended up happening is that his daughter married, and she and the new son-in-law were working there and eventually took over. Family business. Also, unless you have excess income in the earlier years, retirement just won't be an option. My grandfather, for instance. 75+yo man, worked on a farm all his life - not exactly a high-profit business. So to this day, he still has to work, albeit not his own farm anymore. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:22 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > Also remember that there are going to be quite a few LARGE bulk carrier vessels out there to move Long John Ore about. Probably subs so as to cut down on handling and THEY do have to worry about pirates and rival corps. AND haveing built these cargo vessels they might as well carry cargo on the return trip rather than go empty! *grins* The Spanish galleons from Central/South America, for instance. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sir Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:41 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels Doh! Why didn't I think of that? They make special note of that sort of transport in the Star Wars video games like X-Wing Alliance and such. They basically have a command section in the front and a long, narrow spine running all the way back to the propulsion system, with connectors on the sides for cargo pods. Too simple and obvious, that's why I didn't think of it. > One of the thoughts that occurred to me was a modular type of large, cargo > sub. A spine with a small crew compartment, engines, batteries, sonar > (etc.) to which a number of different types of pods could be attached. Thus > instant research sub, instant cargo sub. It probably wouldn't work nearly > as good for combat except perhaps as a troop hauler. > > Think the old Skyhook helicopter. > > Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:42 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels This could make a lot of sense for shipping cargoes from Earth, the same pods should be vacuum tight if they're water tight, load it on Earth, attach to the outside of a space freighter, drop it to Poseidon, attach to the cargo sub. They could also be recycled into habitat modules. With automation and computer control, the need for large crews isn't great. Even many sailing vessels these days can be handled by one or two people in a pinch. This could be an ideal Poseidon long hauler, perhaps on a circuit route rather than a there and back again. ----- Original Message ----- From: Heivilin, Jim To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: RE: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Mass transit, trading vessels > -----Original Message----- > > >Note though that my point wasn't, "piracy doesn't exist in RL" but "I doubt > >piracy would attain high enough levels in BP to justify building cargo > >container _submersibles_." There seems to be a lot of misinterpretation on > >the list in the last few days. > > > One of the thoughts that occurred to me was a modular type of large, cargo > sub. A spine with a small crew compartment, engines, batteries, sonar > (etc.) to which a number of different types of pods could be attached. Thus > instant research sub, instant cargo sub. It probably wouldn't work nearly > as good for combat except perhaps as a troop hauler. > > Think the old Skyhook helicopter. > > Jim > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.