From: Kraken [kraken@kaos.es] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:13 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Hello Salud! I'm from Madrid, Spain, so excuse my poor english, please. I've just bought the Player's book and Moderator guide of BP V.2 (i'm still reading the first one), and yesterday I suscribed to this mailing list. Two questions: * Is there any errata list for this books (I read something about this in a recent posting)? * What's the more important supplement for BP, that book you can't do without? I see "Fluid mechanics" as a likely candidate and, for what I've read, each one of the others concentrates on a different "campaign style". Thanks! Carlos Lacasa *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Myles Corcoran [myles@irls3101.ck.cit.alcatel.fr] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 2:56 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? Christopher Gribbon wrote: > (On Earth), the actual 'eyespot' organ itself is believed to have > evolved seperately as many as 65 different times at differnt times > throughout history. Interestingly, the signalling factors and > transcription factors which induce/control eye development and > organogenesis are highly conserved between widely varying species > (Drosophila fruitflies, mice, humans, etc.) I had heard this, but wasn't sure of the source. Thanks for the confirmation. Nonetheless it doesn't answer why Poseidon life hasn't (apparently) developed lenses. As you say lenses have developed in a variety of organisms. The differences between the arthropod eye and the vertebrate (and mollusc) eye might suggest completely different evolutionary paths from the basic "kit" of light sensitive biochemistry. If it can happen on Earth why not on Poseidon? Simple optics can easily show that even a cup or rim around an eyespot greatly improves the sensitivity, both for resolution and motion detection. This is true even without a lens to cover the eyespot's cup. > Also, all photsensitive processes known (from photosynthesis to > vision) depend on one set of pigments - the carotenoids. However, > only plants can produce these substances - which is why we get > "night blindness" with vitamin A deficiency (it is the metabolic > precursor of retinal - which is what we use to sense incoming light). Interesting. Are there other obvious candidates for photosensitive biochemistry that could plausibly be invoked for Poseidon life? Thanks for the post. Myles -- Myles Corcoran myles@ck.cit.alcatel.fr Alcatel Ireland Ltd. "It is better, of course, to know | (home) : (+353) 021 4503904 useless things than to know | (work) : (+353) 023 20469 nothing." (Seneca) | (fax) : (+353) 023 20481 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jerome Darmont [jdarmont@dionysos.univ-lyon2.fr] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:55 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hello At 10:12 11/07/01 +0200, Kraken wrote: >* What's the more important supplement for BP, that book you can't do >without? I see "Fluid mechanics" as a likely candidate and, for what I've >read, each one of the others concentrates on a different "campaign style". If I had to set up a preference order, it'd go like this: 1. First Colony 2. Natural Selection 3. Fluid Mechanics 4. Frontier Justice -- Jérôme Darmont, mailto:darmont@free.fr, http://fly.to/bleue.planete *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 9:24 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hello I would get them based on what sort of suplemental information you and your group want/need. Fluid Mechanics: Lots of equipment and information on the state of the art in Blue Planet technology, what is and is not available and why. First Colony: a detailed look at the city of Haven, lots of information on politics and personalities, as well as four adventures that do an excellent job of showing the broad spectrum of possible BP adventures. Frontier Justice: Very good if you want to run a game with characters who are law enforment agents, somewhat useful if the characters are criminals, otherwise you can get along fine without it. Natural Selections: Lots of new creatures, excellent essays on Poseidon biology and ecology, also wilderness survival. And a great adventure, that actually is not based on the local Wildlife. I would place them in order: Natural Selection, Fluid Mechanics, First Colony, Frontier Justice. That is based on the sort of game I like. Your group may vary. Welcome to BP --dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Kraken To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:12 AM Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Hello > Salud! > > I'm from Madrid, Spain, so excuse my poor english, please. > > I've just bought the Player's book and Moderator guide of BP V.2 (i'm still > reading the first one), and yesterday I suscribed to this mailing list. > > Two questions: > > * Is there any errata list for this books (I read something about this in a > recent posting)? > > * What's the more important supplement for BP, that book you can't do > without? I see "Fluid mechanics" as a likely candidate and, for what I've > read, each one of the others concentrates on a different "campaign style". > > Thanks! > > Carlos Lacasa > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 9:30 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Hello > -----Original Message----- > From: Kraken [mailto:kraken@kaos.es] > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Hello > > Salud! > Hello and welcome. > Two questions: > * Is there any errata list for this books (I read something > about this in a recent posting)? > I have some errata from 1st edition up on the Biohazardgames.com site but as far as I know we don't have any consolidated list of errata for 2nd edition. We had discussed it recently and Mexal has graciously volunteered to act as a repository. She'll pass it to me and I'll post it to the website. Oh, I'm Jim Heivilin, the webmaster and general data monkey for Biohazard. You'll find Jeff, Greg, Jason and other Biohazardites hereabouts. > * What's the more important supplement for BP, that book you can't do > without? I see "Fluid mechanics" as a likely candidate and, > for what I've read, each one of the others concentrates on a different > "campaign style". > I wouldn't want to list a preferred "order" of books but Fluid Mechanics and Natural Selection are the tech and wildlife books, the others are campaign setting or regional books. As such they're pretty much location or campaign independent. Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games http://www.biohazardgames.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Rusty.Neal@Bull.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 9:46 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? Here is the info I got from Jeff the first time I asked this question, way back when BPV1 first came out. That way he doesn't have to type it in again and send it to us :-) There are lenses of a sort, floating in fluid. I'd love to see a diagram of how this would work though... Rusty >>Eyespots was perhaps a bad choice of term, as you are not the >>first to ask about them. I have always liked the term however, >>and the impression it brings to my mind is certainly an alien >>one. Not being able to look a strange creature in the eye would >>be disconcerting at best. >> >>Now of course, there are many creatures on Poseidon that >>have simplistic light sensing organs (true eyspots) and rely >>on other sensory media such as sound; electric fields, scent, >>etc. For those animals that rely on vision as their primary >>sense however, their BP eyespots are remarkable organs. >> >>BP eyespots are not really eyespots at all. In fact, in many >>ways they are far more sophisticated than terrestrial visual >>systems. Most animals have two or more rows with multiple organs >>in each row. This typically provides several advantages; extreme >>peripheral, sometimes 360 degree or even spherical fields of >>vision, better sense of parallax and relative motion, and enhanced >>depth perception - advantages for both predators and prey. >> >>The individual organs are actually shallow cavities covered >>by a shield of clear connective tissue similar to the cornea >>of terrestrial animal eyes. Within the cavity is a suspension >>fluid than supports dozens, and in a few cases even hundreds, >>of tiny "bubble lenses". These structures are small globules >>of clear, semi-solid secretions that are ringed by complex muscle >>groups that can adjust the focal length and direction of focus of >>each lens, over a remarkable range. This allows the eyes to focus >>one or more lenses on one or more classes of retinal tissues on >>the inner surface of the eyespot cavity. These light sensitive >>tissues typically include cells sensitive to the our visible >>light spectrum as well as the far red and ultraviolet wavelengths. >>This allows each eye to optimize its sensitivity to the incident >>wavelengths, and allows even a single eye to focus on a variety of >>objects at various distances, all at the same time, and from the >>most obscure angles. >> >>What organisms equipped with such eyes actually see is as hard to >>visualize as what dolphins "see" when they echolocate, but you >>can imagine the possible advantages. Obviously the visual cortex >>of these animals has to be large and well developed to control >>the arrays of lenses and to interpret the information they bring >>in. Just cut open the head of the next lesser white you encounter >>and you will see what I mean ; ). >> >>Thanks for the keen interest, >> >>Jeff Barber >>Biohazard Games *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Myles Corcoran [myles@irls3101.ck.cit.alcatel.fr] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 10:15 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? Thanks Rusty (and Jeff). That's much clearer and helps dispel my earlier problems with the apparent evolutionary "brake" on visual sense organs on Poseidon. Now it's quite the opposite. How come we've got these crappy eyes on Earth when there's something so much cooler to be had? :) Myles -- Myles Corcoran myles@ck.cit.alcatel.fr Alcatel Ireland Ltd. "It is better, of course, to know | (home) : (+353) 021 4503904 useless things than to know | (work) : (+353) 023 20469 nothing." (Seneca) | (fax) : (+353) 023 20481 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 10:25 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? > -----Original Message----- > From: Myles Corcoran [mailto:myles@irls3101.ck.cit.alcatel.fr] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? > > > > Thanks Rusty (and Jeff). That's much clearer and helps > dispel my earlier problems with the apparent evolutionary > "brake" on visual sense organs on Poseidon. Now it's quite > the opposite. How come we've got these crappy eyes on Earth > when there's something so much cooler to be had? :) > I *knew* there would be a good reason given that Jeff's field of study was wildlife biology and he has a masters in it. However I've always been an engineer and have never studied biology a day in my life (so I kept my trap shut!). Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 10:43 AM To: Blue Planet List (E-mail) Subject: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gareth Hanrahan > To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:29:41 +0100 > > On Wednesday 11 July 2001 16:25, you wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Myles Corcoran [mailto:myles@irls3101.ck.cit.alcatel.fr] > > > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Could we get a writeup on the eyes? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Rusty (and Jeff). That's much clearer and helps > > > dispel my earlier problems with the apparent evolutionary > > > "brake" on visual sense organs on Poseidon. Now it's quite > > > the opposite. How come we've got these crappy eyes on Earth > > > when there's something so much cooler to be had? :) > > Coming soon from > > ....biomod eyespots.... > > Gar > http://www.mytholder.f2s.com > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 12:37 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Eyes > I had heard this, but wasn't sure of the source. Thanks >for the confirmation. No problem. For a fairly simplistic (and readable by non-biologists) essay on the evolution of eyes - try reading "Climbing Mount Improbable" by Richard Dawkins. >Nonetheless it doesn't answer why Poseidon >life hasn't (apparently) developed lenses. Well - Jeff has answered this one now. >The differences between >the arthropod eye and the vertebrate (and mollusc) eye might >suggest completely different evolutionary paths from the basic >"kit" of light sensitive biochemistry. See "Climbing Mount Improbable" :-) Or, if you have a deeper interest and a more biological bent, try: Land, M. F. & Fernald, R. D. (1992) "The Evolution of Eyes" in the Annual Review of Neurosciences, Vol. 15, pp 1-29 (ISBN 0-8243-2415-3). >> the carotenoids > > Interesting. Are there other obvious candidates for >photosensitive biochemistry that could plausibly be invoked for >Poseidon life? I honestly have no idea. My speciality is the lenses themselves (fascinating organ that it is), rather than the retina, and the actual process of photoreception. So, from my point of view, the interesting question is "What are the bubble-lenses like?" Of course, on a more generic biological issue for BP, I've always wondered about the absolutely mind-boggling coincidence that life on Earth and Poseidon both use DNA for genetic material; even more remarkable - they both use the same set of 5 bases (I believe)! And most amazing of all - the biochemistry of the organisms on the planets is so similar that they can eat each other without being poisoned (except deliberately). Now *that's* something that should set biologists a-goggle (though, sadly, it largely seems to have been forgotten in the rush to catalogue the organisms and investigate the possibilities of the Long John). PS - did you know that the cells in the centre of your lens were laid down 7 months before you were born, and will be there until you die (cataract surgery aside)? There is no entry or exit of cells into or out of the lens: cellularly, it is a completely self-contained system. The cells, called "Lens Fibres" have no cell nucleus or organelles of any sort any more (they lost them 3 or so months before you were born), yet they are still capable of minor protein synthesis, and self-repair. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:42 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Eyes > Of course, on a more generic biological issue for BP, I've always wondered about the > absolutely mind-boggling coincidence that life on Earth and Poseidon both use DNA for > genetic material; even more remarkable - they both use the same set of 5 bases (I believe)! > And most amazing of all - the biochemistry of the organisms on the planets is so similar that > they can eat each other without being poisoned (except deliberately). > Now *that's* something that should set biologists a-goggle (though, sadly, it largely seems > to have been forgotten in the rush to catalogue the organisms and investigate the possibilities > of the Long John). Without containing too many spoilers for Players - I may be way off here but doesn't the "coincidence" of DNA arise from the same reason their is a stable wormhole connecting Poseidon and Earth. Those mysterious manta rays used to have masters didn't they? Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Luke Walker [luke.walker@izardweston.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:39 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Hello > * What's the more important supplement for BP, that book you can't do > without? I see "Fluid mechanics" as a likely candidate and, for what I've > read, each one of the others concentrates on a different "campaign style". Depends on your style of Campaign. A wildlife campaign is best served by Natural Selection. A law/criminal campaign is served by Frontier Justice. First Colony can be useful in a broader sense as its application is geographical i.e want to run a game in Haven get First Colony. Finally, Fluid Mechanics has the broadest application. If you are not satsfied by the level of tech in the Players Guide you should grab it. It also does a good job at explaining tech that doesn't come up in the PG. Luke *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.