From: Jason Hockley [jason.hockley@skynet.be] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 1:59 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Poseidon Olympics? Hello, I realise this may be another one of my questions that has a glaring answer in one of the books somewhere, but asking the list appears to generate a lot of interesting ideas anyway. I was watching a film earlier today (Cool Runnings for anyone interested) and I started to wonder about the state of athletics on Poseidon and in our solar system. Presumably the Blight held back sports to some extent, if only because half the population died and there wasn't enough food to go around, but how much did it really affect it? Did the Olympics carry on through all this and into Recontact? What about the Commonwealth games, Wimbledon, the Ashes (or one of those games you colonials play if you prefer) ? Branching off from this, what sort of sports do they play or practise on Luna, Mars or in the Belt? On Poseidon we know there is the Hydroshot league but now that they are back in contact with the home planet do they get to send a team to the Olympics (or equivalent). For that matter to Incorporate city states get to compete in that sort of even? And cetaceans? Moving further on, how do all the biogenetic developments come into play? Are there Genie and Non-Genie contests? With the trouble we have at the moment with drugs tests and cheating this could be a real issue. Do the Hybrids and Cetaceans play with the others or do they have their own teams? Perhaps there are sports that require a team with a good species cross-section. Long John has to affect the athletes themselves too. At the moment most professional athletes retire before they get too old, but they also sometimes make a lot of money. Maybe there is the potential for one person to dominate a sport indefinitely. Finally, one of the things that sparked off this whole train of thought is that I was looking at the character creation rules and pondering earlier comments about how much easier it was to make physically adept characters than the mentally advanced characters. I'm not too bothered about that as I think it was well answered when it came up before, but I tried to sketch out a character who was some sort of professional sportsman. I got a little stuck by the profession choice though. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions for what sort of skills and skill groups to assign? Or which profession template would be best to take, or modify. I await your responses. Jason Hockley *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jason.hockley@skynet.be] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 1:43 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! Okay, many of my comments echo things others have already said but I want to add my vote to the list. ----- Original Message ----- > The set up: > > Biohazard would love to be able to produce more, and more frequent, Blue > Planet products, and we know you would all like that as well. For many > reasons, this has not been possible thus far. As a result, we have been > considering ways to change the way we do business so that we can increase our > productivity, but maintain the quality and qualities of the BP line we all > dig. > > One option we have considered is an alliance of one sort or another with a > larger, more financially capable company. > > *Hypothetically* if we were to join forces with one company, they would > *hypothetically* want a second edition Blue Planet. It would: Second editions are okay, but as has already been said they are often not really necessary. > 1. consist of BP and Archipelago combined into a two book (player's and > moderator's), hardcover set Personally, I don't like the two book approach. Granted, the Access Denied placing in the current books can cause problems for some inquisitive players but it's easy to work round that and if you were doing a new edition I would prefer that they just be in another part of the book than in a seperate GM's book. > 2. have tons of new and cool artwork I think the lower amount of artwork actually helps the hard science fiction aspect of the game in some ways. Reading through the book you get a real feeling that you've got your money's worth. Too many games try to make up for lack of content with extra artwork thrown in. I don't think this would be a problem with you guys, but it still seems the sort of game to me where the artwork should be more understated than in many books. > 3. feature a continuation of the Blue Planet future history - say a rich and > turbulent decade or so. This is fine, as long as it isn't rushed along too much. Part of the thing I like about Biohazard games is that the books and Undercurrents etc. come out at a reasonable enough speed that I can absorb it all without worrying too much about what is to come. Also, I'm ovbiously not aware of your exact plans for things but if you develop too much into the future you might start to lose the 'Pioneer' spirit of the game. > 4. be followed by a 4-5 book per year release schedule, starting with the > imeadiate release of Fluid Mechanics. Well actually, speaking as one of the many impoverished student gamers, I wouldn't like to see too many books a year. 4-5 seems a little too many to me. I've got no concerns about quality being lowered, as I think you've demonstrated your skills in that time and again, but a game with too many supplements tends to put me off a little. I know you rarely have to read or own all of them to play the game but I've come across many where the later books assume too much prior knowledge of earlier supplements. Having said that Blue Planet is definitely my all time favourite game and I'll probably carry on buying whatever you produce. > We have learned to rely on the opinions of our list members and so... Another very impressive part of Biohazard games, and much appreciated. A couple of others have commented on the similarity of your situation with that of Nightfall Games and SLA Industries (my second favourite game, incidentally) and it does tend to make me feel cautious about this. Of course, you might allay many fears if you said *which* companies you had in mind. *grin* > The question: > > If this *hypothetical* possibility were to come to fruition, what would you > all think about the above take on a second addition of Blue Planet, and the > oportunities/concerns such an alliance might bring? All in all I think I would lean towards the side of 'no alliance', but not so far that I wouldn't change my mind with enough to convince me. If you don't mind me asking, you said this was "one option", so would you be prepared to say what the other options were? Have you considered passing a metaphorical hat around the list? Tun Kai Poh has written some excellent stuff that you've obviously seen, and there are plenty of people willing to put time and effort into helping this great game, as can be seen from the number and quality of Blue Planet web pages around. Okay, having said all that you're doing a great job guys and I'll offer you any support I may whatever you decide to do. I'm sure most of the list members agree. Jason Hockley *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: mcraig@talk21.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 4:27 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypotheticals Jason wrote: All in all I think I would lean towards the side of 'no alliance', but not so far that I wouldn't change my mind with enough to convince me. If you don't mind me asking, you said this was "one option", so would you be prepared to say what the other options were? Have you considered passing a metaphorical hat around the list? Tun Kai Poh has written some excellent stuff that you've obviously seen, and there are plenty of people willing to put time and effort into helping this great game, as can be seen from the number and quality of Blue Planet web pages around. Okay, having said all that you're doing a great job guys and I'll offer you any support I may whatever you decide to do. I'm sure most of the list members agree. Jason Hockley __________________________________________ I would wholeheartedly agree with Jasons comments. I'm sure that many Blue Planet players and GM's would be more than happy to contribute items for supplements etc. As an example, I'm trying to write a guide to the UK in 2199 as a background for a players characters (any other people wishing to contribute to this, please feel free to email me). People writing about their home countries could conceivably be incorporated into World of Hurt, for example. However, the entries would need to be up to the very high standard set by the Biohazard staff. This is a course I would rather see than some big company 'taking over' Biohazard. It seems that Jason and I share the same views about the entire SLA Industries thing and I fear that this may happen with Blue Planet. BP, despite it only being released for a relatively short time, has become my favourite RPG of all time. It even eclipses the mighty (in my eyes) 2300AD. I won't cause embarassment or anger in anyone by naming the company that I fear Biohazard entering into an alliance with. You guys at Biohazard have done a great job in creating one of the best RPGs of all time (the players in my group all agree with this). Progress is vital but not at the expense of quality and, primarily, enjoyment of gaming. After all, that's why we all do this. Malcolm Craig *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 8:57 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Cc: biohzd@aol.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... Hypothetically, I'd say that if _you_, Jeff, believe in it, go for it. There are some people on the list who will be anxious about quality suffering, etc. And there's that theory that having fewer releases from Biohazard alone will ensure better quality, and so forth. I disagree. Yes, there's a risk in allying with a bigger company, and you should look very carefully at the fine print before you make a decision. But if this partner can hold up its end of the deal, the potential benefits _far_ outweigh the risks. If BP can get the exposure of Deadlands or Trinity, this is a good thing. A larger partner could provide the cash you need to buy lots of good artwork and advertising. And to hire more _good_ writers. This leads to better sales, better brand recognition, more fans, and more stores stocking BP. A faster rate of supplements will help ensure that BP survives and thrives. Now there are those who are afraid that supplement quality will suffer, but given a choice between a) 1 quality sourcebook per year and an uncertain future for BP in which nobody knows it exists, or b) a rapid-fire, high-profile output like Fading Suns, Legend of the Five Rings and Deadlands, with both misses and hits, I would go for b) because it leads to more exposure and probably more sales. With a) you will never have enough money to be sure you can keep putting out sourcebooks and material. We've all seen how slowly BP has been growing these past few years. I'm sure you're disappointed that you were unable to meet the original ambitious schedule you put out so long ago, in which Colony and Survey would have been out in stores by now. With b) you can meet that kind of ambitious schedule. Yes, quality may suffer. But with b) you have a chance of making enough money to hire better writers and artists to make sure the quality gets fixed. I'm confident that you can maintain a sufficiently high level of quality with b)...at least you'd have a chance to _try,_ and you do want to try, right? You're running a business. And in the long run, b) makes good business sense and will benefit your customers a lot more than a). Your friend and a loyal BP fan, Kai _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Sakal [csakal@erols.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 9:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! My main concern about Biohazard merging with another game company and subsequently beginning to put out material at a much higher rate is the quality of the material that will be published. I would much rather see many fewer products of the very high quality that Blue Planet has so far evinced than a larger number that might show signs of being rushed. I have no idea whether those concerns would be merited, only the folks at Biohazard can even accurately guess whether they would be able to put out more material without loosing quality - but that would be my main concern about such a change. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ltomek [ltomek@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 10:49 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! Yeah, Jeff, thanks for running the game Saturday night. Everyone was tired but I still had a great time... I really wasn't that surprised by Jeff's "hypothetical question". It's really tough writing a game, play-testing the crap out of it, and publishing it on anything that even resembles a schedule... I do, however, have a general response to Jeff's "question": At first I was worried that the Biohazard dudes would loose creative control over the game. Then I realized that they would be more careful than that (right guys?). Second, I worried that some game company that I don't like would get a hold of BP. Then I convinced myself that the Biohazard dudes would be very careful in their selection (please say it's so). [I agree with Ron on this one- Atlas was the first company to come to mind. They already do a really good quality line with Ars Magica, my second favorite game...] Third, I *really* like great artwork and it would be nice to see some more. However, I am a very visual person and have actually had artwork spoil a game for me in the past. I've been very happy with the work so far... (take note: glossy plates do not make a game great but they sure can ruin the mood and flavor of the setting). Fourth, a note on the amount and/or frequency of supplements: The 4-5 book per year release schedule could be 2-3 and I'd be happy. I admit that one supplement a year isn't quite enough (although I've been happy with all three), 4-5 may be a bit much... What I'd love to see, and what a "hypothetical alliance" could make possible, is books. Maybe a novel or two a year and some collections of short stories (I actually prefer short stories and they seem to be more appropriate for the setting)... As for the format of the second edition: Hardback please. Someone suggested a three-ring binder. Nothing personal, but I *really* hate that format. It doesn't work well. How many people threw out their Monstrous Compendium when the hardback came out for AD&D? Dividing the book into a player's guide and a GM's guide is pretty much the standard, and there is a reason for that- It works. Players love to just buy one book with everything they need (and only the stuff they need) and Game Masters love to have all the secret stuff (and advanced stuff) in a separate guide. Oh, and to see Fluid Mechanics... Cheers! -Chip Tomek *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: christopher gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 7:20 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... Kai says (and I paraphrase): >Yes, there's a risk in >allying with a bigger company, but if this partner can hold up its >end of the deal, the potential benefits _far_ outweigh the risks. >If BP can get the exposure of Deadlands or Trinity, this is a good thing. This leads to better >sales, better brand recognition, more fans, and more stores stocking BP. > >Choices: > >a) 1 quality sourcebook per year and an uncertain future for BP in which >nobody knows it exists, or > >b) a rapid-fire, high-profile output like Fading Suns, Legend of the Five >Rings and Deadlands, with both misses and hits, > >I would go for b) because it leads to more exposure and probably more sales. >With a) you will never have enough money to be sure you can keep putting out >sourcebooks and material. I'm definitely with Kai on this one. After all, often, even the worst of supplements usually have *something* worth buying them for. Even if it's just a wee plot seed, or some small supplemental rules options, or something. OK - the published scenario itself (or whatever) may be a bag of shite, but a good GM can always pick the metaphorical wheat out from the chaff. Right? Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: paulw@betanet.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 7:00 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypotheticals > Actually, as far as I'm aware, SLA has just been brought out again. At least, my local shop > has got it in again. I don't know if Nightfall are still making it, however. I'd have to check. SLA has been back on release for about six months now. There is no new version yet - just re-prints of the original stuff. Still, it is great to see it back. Wiggy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Myles Corcoran [myles@irls3101.ck.cit.alcatel.fr] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 7:22 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... If Biohazard are happy that the hypothetical associate would allow the standards of new publications to match what we've seen so far from Jim, Greg and Jeff I'd say go with the plan. We all want to see more Blue Planet material on the market and the proposed scheme seems to offer a better chance of that happening. As far as two hardback reprints (with additions) of the BP rulebook and Archipelago are concerned, if they attract new players do it. Long-term BP fans will buy or not buy as is their wont but I think long term success only comes with a broader fan base. Certain fans may complain that the reprints only attempt to sell them stuff they've already bought, but no one is required to buy the new books. So long as Biohazard make sure that nothing campaign- or game-critical changes in the new books everyone can go on using the earlier rules happily. I can see similarities here to the complaints of Gloranthan fandom about the loss of the RuneQuest license and the new Hero Wars game that's in the pipeline. Any games company needs to make money to continue putting out games. Better sales are the only way to do that. I trust Biohazard to balance the commercial need for more sales with the artistic need to make consistently cool stuff. When are we going to get names to match all these hypotheses? Myles -- Myles Corcoran | myles.corcoran@ck.cit.alcatel.fr Alcatel Ireland Ltd. Bandon, Cork. | (work): (+353) 023 20469 direct "Why is there always so much month | (home): (+353) 021 348110 left at the end of the money?" | (fax) : (+353) 023 41542/42256 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jerome Darmont [darmont@libd2.univ-bpclermont.fr] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 6:33 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... At 12:19 11/08/99 +0000, christopher gribbon wrote: >may be a bag of shite, but a good GM can always pick the metaphorical wheat out from the >chaff. >Right? At a price. :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerome DARMONT | mailto:jdarmont@francemel.com | http://altern.org/darmont/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: christopher gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 7:07 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypotheticals >A few years ago, there was a small Scottish >games company called Nightfall producing a game called SLA Industries. SLA was a >flawed but excellent game (if that makes sense). Nightfall were bought by Wizards of the > Coast. Sod all happened. No more SLA Industries. I just hope the same thing wouldn't >happen with Biohazard. Actually, as far as I'm aware, SLA has just been brought out again. At least, my local shop has got it in again. I don't know if Nightfall are still making it, however. I'd have to check. >Yeah, I know you guys aren't just in this for the fun of it and that the company is a >business venture but I would have doubts about linking up with some nebulous bigger >company. There are certain companies who I would really loathe to see producing BP. Absolutely. But there are certainly some other companies who *could* be a big boon for BP production. Whatever you guys in BHG choose to do - good luck. Break a fin. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:27 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jason.hockley@skynet.be] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! > > prepared to say what the other options were? Have you considered passing a > metaphorical hat around the list? Tun Kai Poh has written some excellent > stuff that you've obviously seen, and there are plenty of people willing to > put time and effort into helping this great game, as can be seen from the > number and quality of Blue Planet web pages around. > One of the things Jeff had hoped would happen is that Undercurrents would become largely a fan-based publication. Meaning that the majority of the content would be from fan submissions. So I would encourage anyone who has neat ideas to write them up and send them to Jeff. Jim H. -- Jim Heivilin, Webmaster, Biohazard Games -- http://www.biohazardgames.com, mailto:banzai@missouri.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: James Cook [jcook@net-serv.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:48 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! Hi all, In response to Jeff's musings of an alliance with another company, I'm kind of in the middle. I'd love to see more BP supplements per year, but not too many more. 3-4 would be fine, provided the quality was up to snuff. In fact, I'd be satisfied with just 2. I'm a bit tired of companies that crank out new products like a machine gun, especially when they have to release "second edition" versions scant months later to correct a horde of errors. The otherwise great folks at AEG come to mind with all of their L5R RPG shenannigans. I noted that Jeff mentioned "the immediate release of Fluid Mechanics" as one of the conditions of the alliance. Assuming that Biohazard has good reasons for keeping it "in the oven" for a while longer, would it be wise to release it before it's good and ready? Will this kind of thing become the norm for Biohazard under the new alliance? Second edition BP in a two-book format? I don't care if it's in one or two books, but I DON'T want to see gratuitous heaps of new art and questionable formatting thrown in just to stretch it out to fill two volumes. I buy games for the game, not for cool art. If I want that, I'll buy art portfolio books. Pound for pound, the current BP rulebook is the best value out there in terms of getting what you pay for...I'd like to see it stay that way. As for the alliance itself, several folks have mentioned concerns about creative control. I agree that this is something to give serious thought to. Just because a company is all smiles and pats-on-the-back now doesn't mean that they won't drop the game like a rock if it doesn't meet their business plan. The old TSR was like this, and Wizards has a history of it as well. If Jeff and crew let things get away from them, it may be fatal. I'd much rather see the game stay on a slow, high-quality schedule than get canned because it doesn't mass-market sell like AD&D (which has been TSR's argument for canning several other sci-fi games in the past.) Sorry for the rambling, but I felt that I had to abandon my lurker status for this issue. BP is a fantastic game, and as much as I'd like to see more product, I don't want to see it fall by the wayside because some other company decides it's no longer worthy. Thanks, James Cook *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Scott Wells [mswells@raex.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:39 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! Hello all, De-lurking to throw in my 2 scrip.... (BTW, Thanks to everyone who answered my questions about VTOLs a few weeks back) > Biohazard would love to be able to produce more, and more frequent, Blue > Planet products, and we know you would all like that as well. For many > reasons, this has not been possible thus far. As a result, we have been > considering ways to change the way we do business so that we can increase our > productivity, but maintain the quality and qualities of the BP line we all > dig. Sure, We'd all love to see more I think. And I think its EXTREMELY important to maintain quality overall... Its one of the biggest appeals of this game. > One option we have considered is an alliance of one sort or another with a > larger, more financially capable company. Hmmm.... I have reservations even though I can see the logic of this move. Financially, it makes a lot of sense. Especially if the right company is involved. I've heard Atlas games mentioned, butI'll confess that I don't know much about them. I have Ars MAgica, but its never really grabbed me. I suppose my question would be, exactly how much largwer of a company would it be? A larger, more financially secure, but less high profile company might benefit both companies more than joining forces with one of the major players (White Wolf, SJG, or WoTC for instance.) I'd love to see Biohazard hook up with someone like Pagan Publishing or Last Unicorn. > *Hypothetically* if we were to join forces with one company, they would > *hypothetically* want a second addition Blue Planet. It would: > > 1. consist of BP and Archipelago combined into a two book (player's and > moderator's), hardcover set Again... Hmmmm. 2 books? I would love to see a setting book out to provide to players of the game. When I started running my BP game, I spent the first night trying to explain the setting in detail since I was the only one with a book. I went hoarse with all the talking, and didn't even finish. I ended up photocopying a bunch of background articles out of the book so they could understand the setting.... (Only background, no mechanics.)(You might also be interested to know that now nearly every member of my group has gone out and purchased a copy of the game. ) But, again, what would be covered in a moderator's book? The system doesn't take up that much room.... would there be more Access Denied material? Further details on Incorporate Strategies and Independant schemes on the planet? More details of the Aborigines? > 2. have tons of new and cool artwork This I could do without. BP has one of the nicest formats around right now, with just the right balance of art to text. Plus, "cool" is a pretty relative term when it comes to artwork, especially in games. I would rather see consistency of style. A good negative example of gaming art is in White Wolf's books, where they have half a dozen artists, all with vastly different styles. It makes the artwork annoying and distracting, and doesn't add to the atmosphere of the game. So in short what am I saying? Keep the art consistent, keep it unobtrusive, and keep it high quality rather than high quantity. (Though I would love to see more work by Blair Reynolds though.... ) > 3. feature a continuation of the Blue Planet future history - say a rich and > turbulent decade or so. Works for me. The richer the better. The setting needs to grow.... 10 years on Poseidon ought to see a lot of interesting developments and new problems. Including possibly, the colonization of the other major Islands chains.... > 4. be followed by a 4-5 book per year release schedule, starting with the > imeadiate release of Fluid Mechanics. Again, Quality is the issue here. are these 4-5 hastily thrown together books, or are these well thought ought and carefully planned book? try reducing it to 2-3 books a year. After all, you're not just adding to a game, you're adding to a world. Each element needs to be considered. (well... thats what I would do, but I've been told I'm too detail oriented.... ) > We have learned to rely on the opinions of our list members and so... > The question: > If this *hypothetical* possibility were to come to fruition, what would you > all think about the above take on a second addition of Blue Planet, and the > oportunities/concerns such an alliance might bring? Anything that would ultimately benefit the game is ok by me. Too often, the games I love simply disappear because the companies either go under (Like Archon Games... I miss Noir!) or only sporadically support a great product (Like White Wolf has done to Mage.) I want to see Blue Planet and Biohazard have a long and fruitful existance! Good luck guys... I now return you to the list, already in progress, and resume some quality lurking. -Scott *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:40 AM To: 'list, blue planet' Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! -----Original Message----- From: "Jens Alm" To: Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:09:29 +0200 Delurking a bit. A new edition of Blue Planet would be welcomed, as would some more supplements (and the backing of a larger company, which might make my Local Game Retailer put some BP material on the shelves). When it comes to details, yes, more art would be nice, but I'd rather have a good layout and little art than lots of ugly art having nothing to do with the text. Art where necessary for visualisation is good, e.g. creature descriptions, some weapon and equipment descriptions, perhaps a few character descriptions, definitely some art of uplifted dolphins and Orcas, divers, squids, etc. If you're on a budget (and who isn't) and need to cut on the art, cut on the mood pictures. IMO, the system needs an overhaul, but judging from responses on this list, I'm pretty much alone in this. I've tried several modifications of it, but finally threw it away all together and replaced it with my own. The system is rules light and designed for mature gamers, I know, but I don't think it quite cuts it. I confess that my roleplaying often uses lots of die-rolling and so on, but it's not that I need lots of rules, basic roleplaying is often enough. However I find that if there are rules, I should be able to use them. In the character generation rules for instance, the rules more or less force the characters to start at so widely different "point values" as to make them boring to play. In my type of gaming, problem-solving _is_ a big part of the game and when the GEO Marshal is better than the Native Sell-out at _everything_ (to take an extreme example), the player playing the native sell-out will be pretty bored. To rant on, I, in general, don't like systems where player can make choices whether they are going to play competent characters with many high level skills/abilities/attributes, or if they want to play incompetent characters without these abilities. The player choosing to play the incompetent character (as one of my players chose to play a Native Sell-out), will probably feel like he's missing out on the good stuff. I'm not saying that you should have absolute justice to the last character point (a la GURPS for instance); but if there is some kind of character generation system at all, it should at least be moderately balanced. Phew, now that I got that out of my system, I will probably be a much more harmonic and well-behaved person :) Don't form any kind of alliance with a company demanding more than the tiniest influence on the creative material. The relationship, IMO, should be that between a writer and a publisher, not between a writer and an editor. Do your own editing and stay on top of the creative process! Also, even if I don't really like the system you're using, I wouldn't want you to replace it with some kind of house system from a game publisher (i.e., I don't really want GURPS Blue Planet). Two-book format is good, and hardcover is always nice, as long as the binding stays together (my experience says that hardcover bindings are as least as prone to breaking up as softcover, though of course, the book itself can sustain more abuse). You do have to pump up the release schedule a little when it comes to gamebooks, 4-5 a year seems like a good idea. A decade of timeline is a brilliant idea. Finally I can run my own campaign and keep it to the official timeline so that I can run published adventures without changing everything. Let the GM screen be a separate product, or you will probably drive up the price too high. Just my 0.02cs. -- Jens Alm Student of Medicine, Lund University, Sweden jens.alm@af.lu.se *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:05 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Warning! Danger Wil Robinson > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Wells [mailto:mswells@raex.com] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! > > companies more than joining forces with one of the major players (White Wolf, > SJG, or WoTC for instance.) I'd love to see Biohazard hook up with someone like > Pagan Publishing or Last Unicorn. > This is a very interesting comment. Especially given that, lo those many years ago, Jeff was 1/2 of the founding dudes of Pagan Publishing (along with John Tynes, whom for politeness sake I won't say anything else about). There was some ... some ... unpleasantness when Pagan moved up to the Great NorthWest. Let's leave it at that. I started a long email yesterday talking to some of the comments but before I could finish the email system crashed (in a big way, the email guys - personal friends - were up all night and managed to restore all but the last 25 hours of it). Pondering on what I had written I decided that some of it may not have been my place to say so I will reiterate those comments I do feel comfortable talking about. Art. It has been very common for us to get comments on both sides (good and bad) about the scarcity of it. Some people like that there was more written material, some people wish there had been more illustrations and other art. IIRC no one, however, disliked the art we did have. So I can comfortably say that any additional art that might find it's way into a 2nd edition would continue to be of the same high quality as the rest of the Biohazard material. And I make a promise to the list that when Jeff asks me what I think I'll tell him the truth. 2 books. This seems to be a trend in the industry right now. Both for additional editions and for initial releases. Personally I don't mind so much for the first time I buy a game but I can understand that after having bought the first book, you have to seriously think about buying the 2nd edition when it comes out in two books. Case in point. (anecdote) After we finished the main book, Jeff wanted to play something other than BP. And he had seen Deadlands at Origins and GenCon and had traded Shane for a copy. So he gave me the two books (the main book and the background material book) and I've been running it off and on for awhile. I liked it so I bought the main book. However I didn't buy the background book. Now Pinnacle has released the main and background book but has done the reorganize thing and there is a Marshal book and a Posse book. So I have to buy both to get that material or find some place I can find the old background book. A quandary for me. So I promise to speak for those who already own the main book. Okay, I was looking for more messages which might have prompted comments but not all my mail is back yet. Ah well. Jim H. -- Jim Heivilin, 884-3898, IAT Services, Systems and Applications Group, -- University of Missouri, mailto:banzai@missouri.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:24 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! In a message dated 8/10/99, 11:38:45 PM, blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com writes: << As for the format of the second edition: Hardback please. Someone suggested a three-ring binder. Nothing personal, but I *really* hate that format. It doesn't work well. How many people threw out their Monstrous Compendium when the hardback came out for AD&D?>> I'm the one that suggested it. I don't play AD&D 2nd ed. so I never bought the Monstrous Compendium. However, I have played HarnMaster and Star Fleet Battles. Both use the three ring binder method and it works well. SFB would be quite unplayable if people couldn't insert new rules into the correct sections. From a information management point of view, 3 rings binders make the most sense. From a buisness point of view, if the customers want hardbacks, given them hardbacks. How about this: Publish the books as hardcover/perfect bound, but layout the book so that a person can strip the binding, drill holes, and put it into a 3 ring binder. Ideally the ADs would be on seperate pages from the regular text and each item (critter, location, personality, ect..) would start on a new sheet of paper. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:41 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Bindings (was: Back from GenCon!) > -----Original Message----- > From: Ml10@aol.com [mailto:Ml10@aol.com] > Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! > > I'm the one that suggested it. I don't play AD&D 2nd ed. so I never bought > the Monstrous Compendium. However, I have played HarnMaster and Star Fleet > Battles. Both use the three ring binder method and it works well. SFB would > be quite unplayable if people couldn't insert new rules into the correct > sections. From a information management point of view, 3 rings binders make > the most sense. From a buisness point of view, if the customers want > hardbacks, given them hardbacks. > I can also see the attraction of this type of format. I've got quite a few of the Deadlands books and there always seems to be errata and additions, etc. Right now they are printouts fold and kept in the front of the book. Not really very practical but I haven't come up with anything better. I know one of the Texas guys (Greg or Brian) got a copy of the HarnMaster stuff at Origins and Jeff saw it and was impressed. I liked it to. It seemed sturdy and well done. > How about this: Publish the books as hardcover/perfect bound, but layout the > book so that a person can strip the binding, drill holes, and put it into a 3 > ring binder. Ideally the ADs would be on seperate pages from the regular > text and each item (critter, location, personality, ect..) would start on a > new sheet of paper. > In most cases the offset required for printing should (someone correct me if I'm wrong) be sufficient to have the binding trimmed off and holes/etc put in to "bind" it in another fashion. Jim H. -- Jim Heivilin, 884-3898, IAT Services, Systems and Applications Group, -- University of Missouri, mailto:banzai@missouri.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Scott Wells [mswells@raex.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:55 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Warning! Danger Wil Robinson Jim, Easy there,! We're all friends here! I'm not up on why people leave companies or personal difficulties between people or companies. I should've simply marked things as my opion only, rather than opening up a potential can of worms. Personally, I like the products put out by both companies. I don't know the people involved, only the products. And that is solely how I form my opinions. If I've offended by bringing up a sore spot, I apologize.... -Scott Heivilin, Jim wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Scott Wells [mailto:mswells@raex.com] > > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! > > > > > companies more than joining forces with one of the major players (White > Wolf, > > SJG, or WoTC for instance.) I'd love to see Biohazard hook up with someone > like > > Pagan Publishing or Last Unicorn. > > > > This is a very interesting comment. Especially given that, lo those many > years ago, Jeff was 1/2 of the founding dudes of Pagan Publishing (along > with John Tynes, whom for politeness sake I won't say anything else about). > There was some ... some ... unpleasantness when Pagan moved up to the Great > NorthWest. Let's leave it at that. > > > I started a long email yesterday talking to some of the comments but before > I could finish the email system crashed (in a big way, the email guys - > personal friends - were up all night and managed to restore all but the last > 25 hours of it). Pondering on what I had written I decided that some of it > may not have been my place to say so I will reiterate those comments I do > feel comfortable talking about. > > Art. > It has been very common for us to get comments on both sides (good and bad) > about the scarcity of it. Some people like that there was more written > material, some people wish there had been more illustrations and other art. > IIRC no one, however, disliked the art we did have. So I can comfortably > say that any additional art that might find it's way into a 2nd edition > would continue to be of the same high quality as the rest of the Biohazard > material. And I make a promise to the list that when Jeff asks me what I > think I'll tell him the truth. > > 2 books. > This seems to be a trend in the industry right now. Both for additional > editions and for initial releases. Personally I don't mind so much for the > first time I buy a game but I can understand that after having bought the > first book, you have to seriously think about buying the 2nd edition when it > comes out in two books. Case in point. > > (anecdote) > After we finished the main book, Jeff wanted to play something other than > BP. And he had seen Deadlands at Origins and GenCon and had traded Shane > for a copy. So he gave me the two books (the main book and the background > material book) and I've been running it off and on for awhile. I liked it > so I bought the main book. However I didn't buy the background book. Now > Pinnacle has released the main and background book but has done the > reorganize thing and there is a Marshal book and a Posse book. So I have to > buy both to get that material or find some place I can find the old > background book. A quandary for me. So I promise to speak for those who > already own the main book. > > Okay, I was looking for more messages which might have prompted comments but > not all my mail is back yet. Ah well. > > Jim H. > > -- Jim Heivilin, 884-3898, IAT Services, Systems and Applications Group, > -- University of Missouri, mailto:banzai@missouri.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ankfix@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:53 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! In a message dated 8/11/99 10:45:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, banzai@missouri.edu writes: > I wouldn't want you to replace it > with some kind of house system from a game publisher (i.e., I don't really > want GURPS Blue Planet). And here I was about to suggest just that! SJGames is a 'big' game company with the soul of an 'indy'. GURPS rules work well with BP (I use them when running BP, so I speak from practical experience :-), and using the GURPS system would free up space in the proposed second edition books. GURPS Discworld, for example, included a 32 page section detailing the basics of GURPS. No need to buy any other GURPS books to play (though that option exists). I'm an official SJGames MIB however, so I guess my view may be just a tad biased. :-) - Fixer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: mcraig@talk21.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 1:06 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Binders Brief comment: Arse to three ring binders thank you Malcolm Craig *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jens Alm [jens.alm@af.lu.se] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 1:48 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: SV: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! I'm a GURPSophile myself, with easily more than 30 sourcebooks and that is more or less why I _don't_ want BP to be GURPSified. I have actually run BP with GURPS rules and it went fairly well, but recently I've come to think of the concept of "generic" systems as a bit soulless. No matter how much you try to separate the gameworld from the gamesystem (and BP does a pretty good job at it), the playing experience is flavored very much by the rules. This is true at least the way I play, with a focus on problem-solving and a healthy (?) dose of combat. To me, after having played so much GURPS, a GURPS game is a GURPS game is a GURPS game. You actually have to add a new set of rules (Supers or something like that) to liven it up again. Also, SJ Games does great settings and sourcebooks, but their licensing of other RPGs (the World of Darkness series mostly) aren't so hot, lukewarm at best. I want rules written for the game, not the other way around. But then again I am a roleplaying rules theory enthusiast and take a perverse interest in discussing for instance the pros and cons of different systems for initiative in combat :) -- Jens Alm Student of Medicine, Lund University, Sweden jens.alm@af.lu.se -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com [mailto:owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com]För Ankfix@aol.com Skickat: den 11 augusti 1999 18:53 Till: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Ämne: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! In a message dated 8/11/99 10:45:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, banzai@missouri.edu writes: > I wouldn't want you to replace it > with some kind of house system from a game publisher (i.e., I don't really > want GURPS Blue Planet). And here I was about to suggest just that! SJGames is a 'big' game company with the soul of an 'indy'. GURPS rules work well with BP (I use them when running BP, so I speak from practical experience :-), and using the GURPS system would free up space in the proposed second edition books. GURPS Discworld, for example, included a 32 page section detailing the basics of GURPS. No need to buy any other GURPS books to play (though that option exists). I'm an official SJGames MIB however, so I guess my view may be just a tad biased. :-) - Fixer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David Chart [hist@dchart.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 1:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Bindings (was: Back from GenCon!) --On Wed, Aug 11, 1999 10:41 -0500 "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > I > know one of the Texas guys (Greg or Brian) got a copy of the HarnMaster > stuff at Origins and Jeff saw it and was impressed. I liked it to. It > seemed sturdy and well done. It is. It's also $100 for the core rules. (Magic and Religion are core for HarnMaster.) There are 134 pages in the $30 HarnMaster Core. Thus, doing both BP and Archipelago in that format would run to about $120. (Magic and Religion have the same price and lower page counts, so that's a low estimate.) How many of you are willing to pay $60 for your Blue Planet Players' Book? David Chart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: rql [rqlii@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 2:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypotheticals --- Paul Williams wrote: > > Actually, as far as I'm aware, SLA has just been > brought out again. At > least, my local shop > > has got it in again. I don't know if Nightfall are > still making it, > however. I'd have to check. > > SLA has been back on release for about six months > now. There is no new > version yet - just re-prints of the original stuff. > Still, it is great to > see it back. > > > Wiggy I hope so, I loved that game. It's hard to find any of the stuff though. I have the main book & karma. It's a shame such a good game bought the farm (twice I think.) Daque Kendall Ex Warden Brain Waster _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jason.hockley@skynet.be] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 2:57 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... A reply,. some summaries and clarifications. ----- Original Message ----- > I'm definitely with Kai on this one. After all, often, even the worst of supplements usually > have *something* worth buying them for. Even if it's just a wee plot seed, or some small > supplemental rules options, or something. OK - the published scenario itself (or whatever) > may be a bag of shite, but a good GM can always pick the metaphorical wheat out from the > chaff. > Right? Okay, this may well be true but it's hardly the point, surely? Anyone, given the choice, would prefer to have a high quality supplement in the first place. Now they may only have three things out at the moment but Biohazard Games has produced the most consistent, and highest quality gaming material available. I'm sure I need not state specifically that this is only my personal opinion but many others seem of the same mind. Many people have commented that they would not like to see an increase in production at a loss in quality. This doesn't really seem a point we can argue much on hypothetical details to me. Without there being a specific company in mind, or more detailed plans being made, there just isn't a lot more to say about that. There are those of us who actually prefer the slower release schedule for its own sake though. Even if it were to be the best game ever made I wouldn't want to see a new book every other month possibly needing my money. I know you can say that nobody needs to buy absolutely every supplement being made for a game but the fact is that an awful lot of them cross-reference. After all, if a company has produced a book detailing something they are hardly going to ignore it all when continuing with other supplements. Basically, I would trust the Biohazard guys to judge the quality they could keep up in any alliance but I still like seeing the less regular books. As far as advancing the story by a decade, it seems great. As I said before I don't think it should be rushed, with my personal preference being a gradual development as opposed to one book that jumps everything ahead all at once. Of course, having said that a gradual process would probably require more books and hence would either be slower or would necessitate me buying many books in a year, and I believe I've commented on that already. As for artwork, I don't think any argument is going to be all that productive. It's so subjective that whatever they chose to do would please some people and annoy others. Unless there is an overwhelming majority of opinion on one side I would suggest that Biohazard go with whatever *they* want to see, and however much of it *they* like. Similarly, the two book option is going to divide people a fair bit (though hardback books are definitely popular). I suspect that this mailing list isn't the greatest place to ask this as presumably most of the people here already own at least one copy of the main rulebook, and I'm pretty sure that most of those same people own Archipelago. There are enough suggestions for both sides and the debate could continue for a long, long time. If a potential alliance is intended to broaden the scope of Blue Planet and bring it to new people then this question really needs to go to those considering buying it already and those who haven't even heard of it. Again, personally I trust Biohazard enough to judge this one. Either way it'll still be the same game anyway. Now to the reply to my earlier comment about player contribution. I know that Undercurrents is hoped to be a fan driven publication. There is more possibility than that though. Consider the amount of work that people put into developing parts of their games simply because they want a better game. All of this they do for free at the moment anyway. Now I know that most people would also want some remuneration for writing anything to be published, but probably not on the same scale that somebody writing games supplements for a living would want. We've all been doing our best to bolster this game that we love for all this time and from reading messages on this list I suspect that there are at least a few who would be thrilled to see their work in print if only for their name inside the cover. Well I've written enough on this already and I suspect that I may have repeated myself too much from the earlier email. It's probably because I'm still grinning over watching the eclipse. I'll leave you to your regularly scheduled email now. Jason Hockley *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 5:07 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Bindings (was: Back from GenCon!) Hi, Ok, here is my train of thought on the binder idea. Benefits of putting a game into one or more binders: 1) Each section can have its own binder. One binder for char gen, one for equipment, one for each settlement, one for critters, one for rules, ect.... 2) Binders lay flat. 3) Information is consolidated. Instead of flipping through 2 or more books looking for a critter, a player would only have to look in one location. 4) GM produced information can be inserted next to the published material. Publishing BP in the same way that HarnMaster is published: Two of the primary reasons that HarnMaster is so expensive is that is is published on cardboard stock and in color. While I'd love to see BP published the same way, it is rather obvious that the rest of the list doesn't. Publishing BP so that it is binder ready: Since the odd on my winning the lottery are better than seeing BP published HarnMaster sytle, I'd settle for the next best thing: A binder ready layout. This is what Task Force Games does with Star Fleet Battles. Each section starts on a new sheet of paper so that if a person strips the binding and put the rules into a three ring binder, they don't have to worry about seperating sections. The key trick to making a layout binder ready is to start each section on a new sheet of paper. The inclusion of new artwork can help to get the pages to line up. For example, if I were to turn pages 85 through 104 in the BP book into a binder ready layout this is how the pages would map: 85 - 86 -> 1-2 87 - 95 (sans Haven AD) -> 3-8 Haven AD on 92 - 93 -> 9-10 95 - 97 (sans Nomad AD) -> 11-12 Nomad AD text on 97 - 98 -> 13-14 98 - 100 (sans Sierra Nueva AD) -> 15-16 Sierra Nueva AD -> 17-18 100-101 (sans Newport AD) -> 19-20 Newport AD -> 21-22 102, 104 -> 23-24 Habitat 2 AD -> 25-26 (Obviously additional text and artwork would be needed to fill the white space.) So the 11 sections would be: Intro to the arch., Haven, Haven ADs, Normad, Nomad ADs, Sierra Nueva, Sierra Nueva ADs, Newport, Newport ADs, Habitat 2, and Habitat 2 ADs. If it were layed out this way, I could strip the binding and easily create the binders that I love so well and other people can get their hardcover books that they enjoy so much. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:11 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Comments and Qualifications! A couple of comments here, which might help clarify things. 1. Some folks have expressed concern about creative control of the line and ownership of the intellectual property. The publishing alliance we are most considering is just that -- Jeff and I would maintain ownership of the BP intellectual property. Among other things, this means that if this hypothetical partner decided it were no longer interested in publishing Blue Planet, Jeff and I could resume doing so, or find another partner, etc. It also means that we can still script the BP movie. ;-) 2. None of us would be interested in a new "way of doing things" if it meant losing the quality of what we've created to date. First and foremost, this alliance will allow us to focus on the creative end, while letting those more suited to it take care of sales, marketing, accounting, and the like. Foisting these responsibilities off on a larger, more efficient company will free up a *lot* of time and energy that we can use to *improve* the quality of the BP line. 3. As for the identity of the "hypothetical company," we can't name names at the moment, for what are probably evident reasons. I will say it's a solid company with an excellent reputation for quality product, and you shouldn't lose any sleep over it. Let's put it this way: we have lived and breathed Blue Planet for the last three years or so -- you can count on us to be pretty protective of it. 4. I'm the one who bought HarnMaster at Origins. I love the binder and heavy cardstock pages. However, it is almost certain that BP will not be published in this format. As others have mentioned, it is very expensive, especially if you're not doing massive print runs. Also, retailers aren't fond of it. The binders don't fit well on shelves, take up a lot of space, and are likely to be stuck in a dusty corner somewhere as a result (if they are ordered at all). 5. The fixation with illustration and design in RPGs somewhat bewilders me. I don't need illustrations in the novels I read to visualize the people, places, and things they portray, why do I need them for RPG worlds? Surely, all RPGs require is text that is informative, evocative, and enjoyable to read, in a format/layout that is easy on the eyes and well organized. The fact is, though, that a large segment of the market doesn't purchase RPGs the way they purchase novels. Rather than noting the author and reading the cover blurb, they like to pick the book up, flip through it, and get a feel for what it's all about. That first impression is critical, and illustrations are a big part of it. This is...not one of BP's strengths. And the fact is, if BP is to enjoy and long and happy life, we have to do a better job of presenting it to a broad section of what is still a pretty small market. We're not going to do that by changing the substance of the setting, but we can do it by changing the package. Even I will admit that illustrations also serve a useful purpose, though. Unlike a novel, the reader (GM) has to present the material to others (the players) who may not want to read through hundreds of pages of material just to play the game. Illustrations can be extremely helpful in this regard. All that said, there's absolutely no point in filling the book with crappy, quarter-page illos that have nothing to do with the corresponding text. There's no point in improving the illustration of a book that is poorly organized and hard to read. I think there's a good balance of style and substance to be found, and that'd be our goal with a second edition. Whew! I hope this allays some of the fears and concerns expressed here. Please keep the comments, questions, and suggestions coming! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:49 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! > Sorry for the rambling, but I felt that I had to abandon my lurker >status for this issue. BP is a fantastic game, and as much as I'd like to >see more product, I don't want to see it fall by the wayside because some >other company decides it's no longer worthy. As opposed to falling by the wayside for lack of visibility, as it's doing now? I mean, let's be honest, a high quality product that only reaches a fraction of its potential market is about as good as no product at all. Biohazard has little to lose and much more to gain from an alliance with another company (provided it isn't, say, Hasbro). Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! Jens Alm wrote: >Delurking a bit. > >A new edition of Blue Planet would be welcomed, as would some more >supplements (and the backing of a larger company, which might make my Local >Game Retailer put some BP material on the shelves). When it comes to >details, yes, more art would be nice, but I'd rather have a good layout and >little art than lots of ugly art having nothing to do with the text. But I know people who've been turned off buying the book simply because there hasn't been enough art to visualize the world with. If an alliance with another company gives Biohazard the capital to hire more people like Sturm, Despain and Reynolds, all the better. Art >where necessary for visualisation is good, e.g. creature descriptions, some >weapon and equipment descriptions, perhaps a few character descriptions, >definitely some art of uplifted dolphins and Orcas, divers, squids, etc. If >you're on a budget (and who isn't) and need to cut on the art, cut on the >mood pictures. But if Biohazard allies with another company, they'd have a larger budget. This is precisely the point of Jeff's idea. > >IMO, the system needs an overhaul, but judging from responses on this list, >I'm pretty much alone in this Nope. I don't like the system much either - it's workable enough that I haven't got around to converting everything to GURPS or the Chaosium system, but I'd love to see a new version of the system - maybe a major overall of the horribly non-intuitive attribute scale rules (nice idea, incomprehensible implementation), for starters... >In my type of gaming, problem-solving _is_ a >big part of the game and when the GEO Marshal is better than the Native >Sell-out at _everything_ (to take an extreme example), the player playing >the native sell-out will be pretty bored. I have my own gripes about the overpowered GEO Marshal. See http://students.uts.ohio-state.edu/klegman.1/pope.htm to see just what I think of the subject. I have not had any comments on the article so I assume nobody has read it yet. :( >I'm not saying that >you should have absolute justice to the last character point (a la GURPS >for >instance); but if there is some kind of character generation system at all, >it should at least be moderately balanced. Agreed. Last Unicorn's template system in the Trek RPG is an example of the best of both worlds. Pun not intended. >A decade of timeline is a brilliant idea. Finally I can run my own campaign >and keep it to the official timeline so that I can run published adventures >without changing everything. Aw...I like the way the world is now. A decade might be too much. How about five years? Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ankfix@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:05 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! In a message dated 8/11/99 9:51:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, t_poh@hotmail.com writes: > Biohazard has little to lose and much more to gain from an alliance with > another company (provided it isn't, say, Hasbro). > True, but at least the toys would be cool! ;-) - Fixer (Actually, I have used a toy orca in my BP games...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Warning! Danger Wil Robinson Jim wrote: >2 books. >This seems to be a trend in the industry right now. Both for additional >editions and for initial releases. Personally I don't mind so much for the >first time I buy a game but I can understand that after having bought the >first book, you have to seriously think about buying the 2nd edition when >it >comes out in two books. If you're gonna do two books, I suggest you get away from the detestable player/GM book format and do this instead: Book A: Summary of world background. Faction run-through (two-page illustrated spreads on GEO, the major Incorps and major Native factions, like what White Wolf does with its factions). Basic world and archipelago maps. Haven, Nomad and Undersea Habitat 2 settlement data. Basic equipment list. BASIC RULES. FEW Access Denied articles, NO Aborigine material. Half a dozen species of fauna (polypods, sunbursts, land lizards, blimps) with an overview (no stats) of flora like the Poseidon Mangrove and Fast Fungus. In short, Book A is Blue Planet Lite (with more flashy artwork). It's enough to get players into the game, and enough for GMs to run a few adventures with. Book B: More detailed colonial history. ENTIRE contents of Archipelago. World of Hurt chapter of the main book. Access Denieds from the main book. Expanded Aborigine section (more than the original main book, to give GMs more reason to pick this book up). Minor Incorps and Native factions. Details on inter-faction politics. Advanced rules section. Full-scale wildlife survey, with all the flora and fauna from both BP and Archipelago (and maybe a few critters from UC, too). In short, Book B is the Big Compendium that all GMs will want to pick up, but don't need until after their first couple of games, when players start asking annoying questions about the Abos... Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kevin C. Carpenter [kccarpenter@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:48 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Gripes About Marshals > I have my own gripes about the overpowered GEO Marshal. See > > http://students.uts.ohio-state.edu/klegman.1/pope.htm > > to see just what I think of the subject. I have not had any comments on the > article so I assume nobody has read it yet. :( Kai, that's a great piece of work there. Mirrors my sentiments exactly. :) Everyone should take a look at that. - Kevin C. Carpenter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.