From: Nelson Lamoureux [haver@sympatico.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 2:05 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Comments and Qualifications! > A couple of comments here, which might help clarify things. > > 1. Some folks have expressed concern about creative control of the > line and ownership of the intellectual property. The publishing > alliance we are most considering is just that -- Jeff and I would > maintain ownership of the BP intellectual property. Among other > things, this means that if this hypothetical partner decided it were > no longer interested in publishing Blue Planet, Jeff and I could > resume doing so, or find another partner, etc. It also means that we > can still script the BP movie. ;-) That's a very good thing to read. At least we can be sure that the quality will not suffer! > 2. None of us would be interested in a new "way of doing things" if it > meant losing the quality of what we've created to date. First and > foremost, this alliance will allow us to focus on the creative end, > while letting those more suited to it take care of sales, marketing, > accounting, and the like. Foisting these responsibilities off on a > larger, more efficient company will free up a *lot* of time and energy > that we can use to *improve* the quality of the BP line. > > 3. As for the identity of the "hypothetical company," we can't name > names at the moment, for what are probably evident reasons. I will say > it's a solid company with an excellent reputation for quality product, > and you shouldn't lose any sleep over it. Let's put it this way: we > have lived and breathed Blue Planet for the last three years or so -- > you can count on us to be pretty protective of it. Obviously, you can't speak about it now. > 4. I'm the one who bought HarnMaster at Origins. I love the binder and > heavy cardstock pages. However, it is almost certain that BP will not > be published in this format. As others have mentioned, it is very > expensive, especially if you're not doing massive print runs. Also, > retailers aren't fond of it. The binders don't fit well on shelves, > take up a lot of space, and are likely to be stuck in a dusty corner > somewhere as a result (if they are ordered at all). > > 5. The fixation with illustration and design in RPGs somewhat > bewilders me. I don't need illustrations in the novels I read to > visualize the people, places, and things they portray, why do I need > them for RPG worlds? Surely, all RPGs require is text that is > informative, evocative, and enjoyable to read, in a format/layout that > is easy on the eyes and well organized. The fact is, though, that a > large segment of the market doesn't purchase RPGs the way they > purchase novels. Rather than noting the author and reading the cover > blurb, they like to pick the book up, flip through it, and get a feel > for what it's all about. That first impression is critical, and > illustrations are a big part of it. This is...not one of BP's > strengths. And the fact is, if BP is to enjoy and long and happy life, > we have to do a better job of presenting it to a broad section of what > is still a pretty small market. We're not going to do that by changing > the substance of the setting, but we can do it by changing the > package. > > Even I will admit that illustrations also serve a useful purpose, > though. Unlike a novel, the reader (GM) has to present the material to > others (the players) who may not want to read through hundreds of > pages of material just to play the game. Illustrations can be > extremely helpful in this regard. All that said, there's absolutely no > point in filling the book with crappy, quarter-page illos that have > nothing to do with the corresponding text. There's no point in > improving the illustration of a book that is poorly organized and hard > to read. I think there's a good balance of style and substance to be > found, and that'd be our goal with a second edition. > > Whew! I hope this allays some of the fears and concerns expressed > here. Please keep the comments, questions, and suggestions coming! > I always felt annoyed by the way too numerous and flashy illustrations found in and on most RPG books. They do help visualize the world but I never saw them as a necessity. In fact, I would have much liked see less of them. That's one of the first thing I liked about BP and I really hope it will stay that way. Like for a novel, the text should give enough information to visualize and appreciate the full scope of the background. I do understand that some people really want illustrations throughout their books. I don't. I want lots of well written text way before illustration. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nelson Lamoureux haver@sympatico.ca ------------------ «Deux choses sont infinies: l'Univers et la bętise humaine; mais, en ce qui concerne l'Univers, je n'en ai pas encore acquis la certitude absolue.» Einstein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Nelson Lamoureux [haver@sympatico.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 1:51 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Warning! Danger Wil Robinson > Jim wrote: >>2 books. >>This seems to be a trend in the industry right now. Both for additional >>editions and for initial releases. Personally I don't mind so much for the >>first time I buy a game but I can understand that after having bought the >>first book, you have to seriously think about buying the 2nd edition when >>it >>comes out in two books. > > If you're gonna do two books, I suggest you get away from the detestable > player/GM book format and do this instead: > > Book A: > Summary of world background. > Faction run-through (two-page illustrated spreads on GEO, the major Incorps > and major Native factions, like what White Wolf does with its factions). > Basic world and archipelago maps. > Haven, Nomad and Undersea Habitat 2 settlement data. > Basic equipment list. > BASIC RULES. > FEW Access Denied articles, NO Aborigine material. > Half a dozen species of fauna (polypods, sunbursts, land lizards, blimps) > with an overview (no stats) of flora like the Poseidon Mangrove and Fast > Fungus. > > In short, Book A is Blue Planet Lite (with more flashy artwork). It's enough > to get players into the game, and enough for GMs to run a few adventures > with. > > Book B: > More detailed colonial history. > ENTIRE contents of Archipelago. > World of Hurt chapter of the main book. > Access Denieds from the main book. > Expanded Aborigine section (more than the original main book, to give GMs > more reason to pick this book up). > Minor Incorps and Native factions. > Details on inter-faction politics. > Advanced rules section. > Full-scale wildlife survey, with all the flora and fauna from both BP and > Archipelago (and maybe a few critters from UC, too). > > In short, Book B is the Big Compendium that all GMs will want to pick up, > but don't need until after their first couple of games, when players start > asking annoying questions about the Abos... > > Kai Poh > Malaysian Lagomorph Doesn't that look just like old D&D: the red (basic), blue (advanced?), green (companion), black (master) and gold (immortal) set? It certainly is a good idea but I would not be inclined to buy such a product. I'd much rather buy a single book with everything in it, or two books, player's and GM's, for all the good reasons already mentionned by the others. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nelson Lamoureux haver@sympatico.ca ------------------ «Le malheur avec un type intelligent, c'est qu'il n'est jamais assez intelligent pour ne pas se dire qu'il est le plus intelligent.» Vian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: christopher gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:14 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... > Now to the reply to my earlier comment about player contribution. > Now I know that most >people would also want some remuneration for writing anything to be >published, but probably not on the same scale that somebody writing games >supplements for a living would want. I don't think there are that many people who actually make a full-time living from game writing, are there? I mean - Jeff himself teaches as well, doesn't he? It must be bloody impossible to make a 100% living for yourself doing it, due to the sheer amount of work required to do the job decently; and that just increases my admiration for people who *do* write a lot of stuff. Lots of dedication! >We've all been doing our best to >bolster this game that we love for all this time and from reading messages >on this list I suspect that there are at least a few who would be thrilled >to see their work in print if only for their name inside the cover. I couldn't agree more with this. >I'm still grinning over watching the eclipse. We only got an 80% one up here, and there was a cloud-haze - but it was still pretty cool! Naturally, today there's hardly a cloud in the sky. Murphy's law, I guess! Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Sakal [csakal@erols.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:23 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... >I don't think there are that many people who actually make a full-time >living from game >writing, are there? I mean - Jeff himself teaches as well, doesn't he? >It must be bloody impossible to make a 100% living for yourself doing it, >due to the sheer >amount of work required to do the job decently; and that just increases my >admiration for >people who *do* write a lot of stuff. >Lots of dedication! I know some folks who do actually make a living from writing RPG-related material. It takes a LOT of work. Not only is it hard work and you have to produce a lot of volume, but RPG companies tend to be really poorly run so they don't always pay on time. All in all not the sort of thing I would want to have to do for a living. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: paulw@betanet.co.uk Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 7:18 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hypothetically... > >I don't think there are that many people who actually make a full-time > >living from game > >writing, are there? I mean - Jeff himself teaches as well, doesn't he? > >It must be bloody impossible to make a 100% living for yourself doing it, > >due to the sheer > >amount of work required to do the job decently; and that just increases my > >admiration for > >people who *do* write a lot of stuff. > >Lots of dedication! > I know some folks who do actually make a living from writing > RPG-related material. It takes a LOT of work. Not only is it hard work > and you have to produce a lot of volume, but RPG companies tend to be > really poorly run so they don't always pay on time. All in all not the > sort of thing I would want to have to do for a living. It is useful for making extra cash though. The rates depend on the company you work for and the author's reputation within the industry. I don't know what BHG pay, but Chaosium pay a few cents per word and Atlas do the same (although I accepted a fixed rate from them). The next company I'm writing for pays royalties, which probably isn't the best thing for a writer, as he only sees the money trickle in, but I personally am not in this for the cash. Just give me the 'fame' :-) The most important thing is to get a signed contract. Then, if they don't pay, you have something to show your lawyer when you sue them for breech of contract. It also protects you from them printing your work without giving you credit and payment. It can be hard to prove they stole your work. None of this last paragraph is from personal experience BTW, just something I was told before I started writing RPG material. Cheers, Wiggy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 8:35 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Illustrations (was: Comments and Qualifications!) > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Benage [mailto:gbenage@ix.netcom.com] > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Comments and Qualifications! > > 5. The fixation with illustration and design in RPGs somewhat > bewilders me. I don't need illustrations in the novels I read to > visualize the people, places, and things they portray, why do I need > them for RPG worlds? Surely, all RPGs require is text that is > This is a very interesting point that I had never considered before. However ... (see next comment) > Even I will admit that illustrations also serve a useful purpose, > though. Unlike a novel, the reader (GM) has to present the material to > others (the players) who may not want to read through hundreds of > This is almost required in some cases. I can visualize the places, characters, equipment, settings, etc. But others may visualize it entirely differently. And in some cases how you visualize a place or a piece of equipment may impact how you see it functioning. So a standard vision of what it is, how it's laid out (for a location), how it functions may prove to be useful. Which seems to lead to maps, images of creatures, side views of equipment/vehicles, etc. Although part of the GMs job is to help the players visualize (via his own role playing of the NPCs) the scenes in the adventure. That being said the illustrations do help sometimes to set the mood. And mood is *not quite* everything in role playing. Jim -- Jim Heivilin, 884-3898, IAT Services, Systems and Applications Group, -- University of Missouri, mailto:banzai@missouri.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: daniel [unp2@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 4:27 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Bindings (was: Back from GenCon!) I have to say that I'm not at all enthusiastic about the binder idea - although that may be just a personal preference. Yes, it may be practical but a real book, carefully crafted and laid out, gives me a sensual pleasure a binder simply never will (no matter how well done). The idea of actually stripping a hardcover book and drilling holes into the pages... well... sends shivers down my spine. I'd like to see rulebooks to come out both in hard- and softcover editions, with good layout and typography and quality illustrations. And for the practical use, I guess the most important things are a really comprehensive table of contents and a vast index (something roleplaying books are traditionally weak on). What I'd really like to see for BP would be something like a "collector's edition": Hardcover, cardbox case (the thingy you keep the book in, I don't know to how to call it in english...), and some additional supplements - something like large size nautical charts or so. Well, now that I've got that of my chest, I hope I didn't offend one of you binder fans ;-) Yours, Daniel -- Daniel Hahn (dhahn@gmx.de) http://www.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unp2 "Chaos always wins, because it is better organized" - T. Pratchett *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: christopher gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 12:15 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - nautical charts >Hardcover, cardbox case (the thingy you keep the >book in, I don't know to how to call it in english...), and some >additional supplements - something like large size nautical charts or >so. Hmm ... I like this "large size nautical charts" idea. Perhaps like the ones planned for the "Access Denied" / GM screen thing, except larger and maybe a few more. *I'd* buy them. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Lawrence C Tomek Jr. [ltomek@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:40 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - nautical charts On Thu, 12 Aug 1999, christopher gribbon wrote: > > Hmm ... I like this "large size nautical charts" idea. > Perhaps like the ones planned for the "Access Denied" / GM screen thing, except larger and > maybe a few more. > *I'd* buy them. > Yes! I'd buy two. One for my wall and one for my game. Very cool idea. Very cool. -Chip Tomek *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Ferrenz [Brian_Ferrenz@cmahq.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 12:07 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - nautical charts I'd buy them! In the meantime, I wonder if Jeff would be willing to post the files he used to print out the maps he uses at cons? I quick trip to Kinko's and you've got WAYCOOL props! =B= >Hardcover, cardbox case (the thingy you keep the >book in, I don't know to how to call it in english...), and some >additional supplements - something like large size nautical charts or >so. Hmm ... I like this "large size nautical charts" idea. Perhaps like the ones planned for the "Access Denied" / GM screen thing, except larger and maybe a few more. *I'd* buy them. Christopher Gribbon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kevin C. Gerl [Kevin.Gerl@sdrc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 12:31 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - nautical charts Brian Ferrenz wrote: > > I'd buy them! In the meantime, I wonder if Jeff would be willing to post the > files he used to print out the maps he uses at cons? I quick trip to Kinko's > and you've got WAYCOOL props! They are online. Check out Biohazard's site at: http://www.biohazardgames.com/files.html#gameaids Click on the Maps link and you will get a pdf of the stuff I've seen Jeff with at Cons. Back to lurking, Kevin -- Kevin C. Gerl I don't know anything, I just hear things. And what I hear is not necessarily true. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Ferrenz [Brian_Ferrenz@cmahq.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 1:33 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! TKP, Very, Very, silly. =B= I have my own gripes about the overpowered GEO Marshal. See http://students.uts.ohio-state.edu/klegman.1/pope.htm to see just what I think of the subject. I have not had any comments on the article so I assume nobody has read it yet. :( *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Ferrenz [Brian_Ferrenz@cmahq.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 4:25 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Nautical charts and my 2 script Umm.. Duh. Thanks Kevin! We've got a poster printer here at work that I think will work out just fine! On a second note, I am all for more quality art. I am one of those people who flip through a new game book, reading snippets of rules and background, looking for quality art. My rationale being, if the company puts in crappy art, they are probably creatively limited and the book is not worth buying. Better to have no art, than bad art. If there is quality art then I would tent to believe that they really care about their product. It is a bit arbitrary, but I think a majority of people look at new stuff the same way. Why should I look twice a a game that has a couple of strikes against it if there are 10 other similar games down the shelf? White Wolf is really bad about their art. If someone is able to scratch a picture down that has fangs in it, WW will find a book for it to go into. Don't get me wrong, I run a long standing Werewolf game, but I cringe every time I flip a page and there's a picture in there that even I could have touched up. Just say no to bindered books. Reminds me too much of high school! ;-) If there is cash in the coffers for a GM's guide, a player's guide, and a few excellent supplements a year, I'm all for it. As other people have said, I'll trust the home team on this one. One last point... Who are you going to get to fill all of these new high quality supplements with relevant, informative and neat-o content? Hmmm, maybe throw us listserv junkies a bone now and again....? =B= Brian Ferrenz wrote: > > I'd buy them! In the meantime, I wonder if Jeff would be willing to post the > files he used to print out the maps he uses at cons? I quick trip to Kinko's > and you've got WAYCOOL props! They are online. Check out Biohazard's site at: http://www.biohazardgames.com/files.html#gameaids Click on the Maps link and you will get a pdf of the stuff I've seen Jeff with at Cons. Back to lurking, Kevin -- Kevin C. Gerl I don't know anything, I just hear things. And what I hear is not necessarily true. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Sakal [csakal@erols.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:31 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Back from GenCon! >I have my own gripes about the overpowered GEO Marshal. See > >http://students.uts.ohio-state.edu/klegman.1/pope.htm > >to see just what I think of the subject. I have not had any comments on the >article so I assume nobody has read it yet. :( Hey, people, if you think the Marshall is overpowered, then you're missing something very basic about BP. It's NOT about game balance. It's NOT about making sure that everyone has characters of the same power level and nobody will have to feel left out because they're not as skilled. It's a game for mature role-players, not hack-and-slash types, so yes, the Marshall is intended to be overwhelming because it would make sense for him to be, in order to do his job, he has to be, and for a skilled role-player, it can be just as much fun, and just as difficult as playing a less skilled character. As a GM, if you feel that a character can't handle playing something as powerful as a Marshall and will go into every situation guns blazing because he can (which would be a very poor way to role-play such a character, you have to assume that since Marshals are such a small group with so much responsibility, GEO would choose folks who are smart enough to use violence only as a last resort, no matter how good they are at it) then don't let that person play one. That's really all there is to it. It's all about the role-playing, not who gets to drop the most dice. The article was quite amusing, particularly the bit about Transhuman Gene Therapy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.