From: Leif Magnar Kjønnøy [leifmk@pvv.ntnu.no] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:26 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 Ml10@aol.com wrote: > Here is a question for you all to debate: > > Given the techology in Blue Planet, how would you engage in space combat? Let's see, what did we decide last time this subject came up? What sort of space combat is possible is of course dictated by the technology. There are no reactionless drives or warp drives or hyperdrives or any of that junk; we'll have to stick with Sir Isaac Newton and Mr. Albert Einstein. In order for ships to fight they must be able to get close enough to throw some sort of nastiness at each other. Spaceship propulsion tech in BP is pretty darn impressive, requiring fusion rockets that are about as fuel-efficient as physics allows and require a completely insane power density (I seem to remember something on the order of gigawatts per kilogram of machinery). In order to travel between Earth and the wormhole in the time stated, we basically need a ship drive that's an incredibly lightweight and efficient fusion reactor with a controlled leak (through which the blazing hot end products of the fusion process escape at several percent of lightspeed). A ship like that can achieve a total delta-v of maybe 0.05c but takes a month or two to do so. Peak acceleration in the neighborhood of 1 g. Such ships are optimised for the long wormhole run; ships intended for shorter trips will probably sacrifice some (a lot) of the delta-v for the sake of higher acceleration (which is easy enough to do -- just add more inert reaction mass, you get higher thrust but lower exhaust velocity). Relative velocities of ships are likely to be *very* high -- perhaps as much as 0.1 c for wormhole-runners that pass each other; easily many hundreds or thousands of km/s even for slower vessels. This tends to suggest weapons based on kinetic energy -- nobody wants to run into anything of substance at high speed (the kinetic energy of 1 kg of anything moving at 1000 km/s is equivalent to about a 0.1 kiloton tacnuke, and it gets worse from there). Ships are not going to be armored to any significant degree, although space stations might be (well, the difference between "ship" and "station" is a bit fluid -- you can slap a fusion rocket on a nickel-iron asteroid and maneuver it around the solar system, but compared to a high-acceleration vessel it might as well be stationary, it's certainly not going to outmaneuver much of anything). My favorite antiship weapon is the kinetic shrapnel missile. In its simplest incarnation, it's just a dumb piece of iron, perforated and with a small explosive charge. It gets tossed toward the target at high relative speed (which is basically "free" since the combatants are presumably already moving wrt each other), and blows itself up into tiny bits shortly before impact, to counteract any efforts the target might make to dodge it or "shoot it down" -- the idea is to create an expanding cloud of shrapnel such that as much as possible of it will hit the target. It's a lot of fun because we can play with the parameters (relative velocities, maneuvring capability, resilience of target, range and efficiency of countermeasures, etc) and get quite a few different results. Depending on the details, it can vaporize a ship or just annoy it, or anything in between. Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y | "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree www.pvv.org/~leifmk| That it carries too far, when I say Math geek and gamer| That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea, GURPS, Harn, CORPS | And dines on the following day." (Carroll) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 12:12 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat There is a highly unstable political situation in BP. Many factions are questiontioning the validity of GEO and the Incorporates. Poseidon holds the most valuable mineral in existance. Part of GEO's power comes from controling the wormhole. The Incorporates are building strongholds on Poseidon. Heck, Hanover is completely moving there. On Poseidon they have much more valid claims of being a nation. If either GEO and/or the Incorporates are nullified on Earth, then they can retreat to Poseidon. Do you really think that the governments of Earth would get rid of GEO/Incorporates and then allow them control of the one planet that the Long John comes from? The supply line from Earth to Poseidon is a long one and can easily be disrupted.... I highly doubt that GEO, the Independent States, the Incorporates, and the Moon government are not researching space combat tactics. Mike Z In a message dated Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:39:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Chris Stilson" writes: << Well, considering that there's only really one government in both the Sol and Serpentis systems with any real economic or political power (that being the GEO), the need for space combat would be minimal at worst (some weapons in the hands of the Gorchoffs, for example, and they have no reason to actually use them yet). Some Incorporate states might maintain missile bases, but even then the types of missiles would be standard concussion explosives; I don't think even the Incorporate or Gorchoff or anyone else would be stupid enough to maintain nuclear firepower, considering its ability to render what landmass there is on Poseidon uninhabitable. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > I don't think that missles (in their current form) will be the weapon of choice. They are easy to spot once they are launched and have a limited sensor array. A laser anti-missle system (like the ones developed by the US army and air force) could easily take out enemy missles. > > Mike Z > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:02 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat (nuclear weapons) > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Stilson [mailto:crazycat@orcalink.com] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > > Well, considering that there's only really one government in > both the Sol and Serpentis systems with any real economic or > political power (that being the GEO), the need for space > combat would be minimal at worst (some weapons in the hands > of the Gorchoffs, for example, and they have no reason to > actually use them yet). > While you might think that if you are pondering huge two sided naval battles, one of the vignettes discusses the space-jacking of a transport between the wormhole and GEO 1 above Poseidon. http://www.biohazardgames.com/post-vignette4.html > Some Incorporate states might maintain missile bases, but > even then the types of missiles would be standard concussion > explosives; I don't think even the Incorporate or Gorchoff or > anyone else would be stupid enough to maintain nuclear firepower, > considering its ability to render what landmass there is on > Poseidon uninhabitable. > You are correct here. The GEO would deploy 17 Heavy Cavalry (or one of the other Peacekeeper Heavy Cavalry units) if they discovered any evidence that someone had nuclear weapons. Quick and with predictably lethal results. No trial, no sentencing, just an autoshot to the back of the head (unless they were resisting, of course, then they'd get shot in the chest). "Target Eliminated. Objective seized. Mission Complete. Over." Trust me, you don't want to meet a Mark V Shock Trooper. However, there is still a lot you can do with conventional missiles. Let me give you a modern day example. The U.S. Army artillery has a Dual Purpose Conventional Munition (DPCM) that contains a number of small explosive devices. The round is set for air burst over the target and the bomblets float on small parachutes down over the target. They can be set to explode on contact or delay for a predetermined amount of time. They also have artillery deliverable minefields and rocket assisted projectiles and laser guided projectiles. Bunches of stuff. And with advances in electronics there are all kinds of things you could get a conventional missile to do. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:49 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > -----Original Message----- > From: Atti2dboy@aol.com [mailto:Atti2dboy@aol.com] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > > In a message dated 9/24/00 2:57:51 PM, Ml10@aol.com writes: > > >Given the techology in Blue Planet, how would you engage in > >space combat? > > The same as air combat is engaged now; missiles. > This is most likely the best weapon, although there is no reason that you can't have "dumb" projectiles. Low Earth Orbit missile defense has experimented with acceleration of miscellaneous objects. When a cluster of small ball bearings hit *anything* traveling at several hundred meters per second the energy transfer is sufficient to wreck most space vehicles. And there is no electronic signature associate with dumb projectiles. Of course you can't correct their trajectory once launched. And (now that I reread this before sending) it would be the perfect anti-missile defense. A short range projectile launcher that basically launches a big shotgun shell. Smash the heck out of the incoming missiles. > Dog fights, though cool, are a thing of the past. Air combat > the missile is on its own. > Forget Star Wars, when Lucas was making the movie he made a conscious decision to base the space combat on WWII dogfights. Realistic physics dictate that turning will *not* be as fast as that (unless you have a *huge* thrust-to-weight ratio). From what I understand the computer game "Independence War" had a realistic physics model that was accurate for space travel. I've got it but haven't played it yet. But they do assume some sort of beam weapon there. > Another way to look at it is submarine combat. Each combatant > is blind and listening with radar for other vessels. The best > way to stay alive is to be quite and launch your weapons first. > (I presume you mean quiet) While there may be aspects of this, you are probably less blind here that you are underwater. There you have a magnetometer and sonar and that's about it. In space you'd have electronic signature detection devices, radar, ladar, microwave radar, thermal detection devices, magnetometer (again), and (of course) the Mark I eyeball (with appropriate enhancement - the Mark II eyeball? - magnification, etc). So you could paint a *much* more accurate picture of what's out there. The only problem would be target identification. Which one is the ship you're looking for? > Space vessels will most likely not be armored. Two reasons > are prominent. First, anything dense enought to be used as > armor is going to slow down the faster forms of radiation. > This would expose the crew to even higher levels of > radiation than merely traveling in space. > I'm not sure of your reasoning here. Why would dense armor which slows down gamma radiation expose the crew *more*? And anything dense enough to compose a spacecraft's hull will probably block alpha and beta radiation. > Second, armor usually means mass. If a vessel has limited > thrust, mass is something to be kept to a minimum for > reasons both of range and maneuverability. > This does have validity. You can armor the heck out of something but you'll still have to push that mass around. And changing vectors once you've accelerated that mass won't be easy either. Note: nothing here is "official" in any way, just the speculation of a rocket engineer. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:42 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 Ml10@aol.com wrote: > > > Here is a question for you all to debate: > > > > Given the techology in Blue Planet, how would you engage in space combat? > Relative velocities of ships are likely to be *very* high -- perhaps as > much as 0.1 c for wormhole-runners that pass each other; easily many > hundreds or thousands of km/s even for slower vessels. I'd have assumed most contact between ships - and hence the possibility for space combat - would be in orbit of the various inhabited planets (especially Earth/Mars/Poseidon) and at the wormhole. There'd be two styles of space combat, ships in transit at stupidly fast speeds, and ships moving slowly near the various planetary bodies. > Ships are not going to be armored to any > significant degree, although space stations might be (well, the difference > between "ship" and "station" is a bit fluid -- you can slap a fusion > rocket on a nickel-iron asteroid and maneuver it around the solar system, > but compared to a high-acceleration vessel it might as well be stationary, > it's certainly not going to outmaneuver much of anything). > > My favorite antiship weapon is the kinetic shrapnel missile. In its > simplest incarnation, it's just a dumb piece of iron, perforated and with > a small explosive charge. I'd guess you'd use stuff like this when fighting at speeds, and missiles of various kinds at slower speeds. BP has fairly good artificial intelligence and drone technology, so missiles are probably pretty smart. > Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y Gar who's not a physicist, and approaches most space combat questions asking "now what would look *really* cool...?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Atti2dboy@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:38 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat Follow Up Flag: Reply Flag Status: Flagged In a message dated 9/25/00 6:56:13 AM, banzai@missouri.edu writes: >> Space vessels will most likely not be armored. Two reasons >> are prominent. First, anything dense enought to be used as >> armor is going to slow down the faster forms of radiation. >> This would expose the crew to even higher levels of >> radiation than merely traveling in space. > >I'm not sure of your reasoning here. Why would dense armor which slows down >gamma radiation expose the crew *more*? And anything dense enough to >compose a spacecraft's hull will probably block alpha and beta radiation. I only took one year of college level physics, and that was 12 years ago, so I do not know much about radiation. A friend explained it to me once, I may have misunderstood. As I understand it radiation shielding merely slows down various forms of radiation. If a spacecraft is shielded from slower forms of radiation, the faster forms will be slowed down enough to effect human physiology (which they normally do not(?)). Rich "Chaos, panic, & disorder - my work here is done." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kevin L. Nault [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 4:30 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > > Relative velocities of ships are likely to be *very* high -- perhaps as > > much as 0.1 c for wormhole-runners that pass each other; easily many > > hundreds or thousands of km/s even for slower vessels. > > I'd have assumed most contact between ships - and hence the possibility for > space combat - would be in orbit of the various inhabited planets > (especially Earth/Mars/Poseidon) and at the wormhole. There'd be two styles > of space combat, ships in transit at stupidly fast speeds, and ships moving > slowly near the various planetary bodies. Sounds about right, with the added incentive that the GEO or a local authority would probably maintain either missile batteries or some kind of high acceleration landing assault craft to plant marines on board any ship engaging in hostilities. > > Ships are not going to be armored to any > > significant degree, although space stations might be (well, the difference > > between "ship" and "station" is a bit fluid -- you can slap a fusion > > rocket on a nickel-iron asteroid and maneuver it around the solar system, > > but compared to a high-acceleration vessel it might as well be stationary, > > it's certainly not going to outmaneuver much of anything). > > > > My favorite antiship weapon is the kinetic shrapnel missile. In its > > simplest incarnation, it's just a dumb piece of iron, perforated and with > > a small explosive charge. > > I'd guess you'd use stuff like this when fighting at speeds, and missiles of > various kinds at slower speeds. BP has fairly good artificial intelligence > and drone technology, so missiles are probably pretty smart. With clever missiles, you could have a missile which was accelerated by the launching ship, on a vector calculated to be the best intercept after watching any vector changes (evasive maneuvers) by the other ship. The missile could use tiny course adjustments with compressed gas, but not ignite its main engine until the optimum time to intersect the front of the target. Misses would be rare, and it'd be nearly impossible to detect until impact if it stayed with passive scanners. Kinetic weapons as a shield in front of the defender might get it, but remember that space is big, and it could also assume other vectors to the target. It'd be a REAL problem to intercept, and missile defence systems thus far haven't been that effective. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: wernerj@swbell.net on behalf of Jason Werner [wernerj@swbell.net] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 12:03 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat Follow Up Flag: Follow up Flag Status: Flagged With some obvious caveats, an excellent example of how I'd perceive space combat in the Blue Planet Universe can be found in Niven, et. al.'s "The Gripping Hand." The authors explore the challenges of finding something that doesn't want to be found, single ship and fleet actions, moveable bases, projectile and beam weapons, relative velocities and high-speed maneuvering, etc. The only hitch is that they postulate an enegy shield that throws a few wrinkles into things. Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty close to my personal (i.e., not cannon) picture. -Jason Werner -----Original Message----- From: Kevin L. Nault [SMTP:jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:30 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > > Relative velocities of ships are likely to be *very* high -- perhaps as > > much as 0.1 c for wormhole-runners that pass each other; easily many > > hundreds or thousands of km/s even for slower vessels. > > I'd have assumed most contact between ships - and hence the possibility for > space combat - would be in orbit of the various inhabited planets > (especially Earth/Mars/Poseidon) and at the wormhole. There'd be two styles > of space combat, ships in transit at stupidly fast speeds, and ships moving > slowly near the various planetary bodies. Sounds about right, with the added incentive that the GEO or a local authority would probably maintain either missile batteries or some kind of high acceleration landing assault craft to plant marines on board any ship engaging in hostilities. > > Ships are not going to be armored to any > > significant degree, although space stations might be (well, the difference > > between "ship" and "station" is a bit fluid -- you can slap a fusion > > rocket on a nickel-iron asteroid and maneuver it around the solar system, > > but compared to a high-acceleration vessel it might as well be stationary, > > it's certainly not going to outmaneuver much of anything). > > > > My favorite antiship weapon is the kinetic shrapnel missile. In its > > simplest incarnation, it's just a dumb piece of iron, perforated and with > > a small explosive charge. > > I'd guess you'd use stuff like this when fighting at speeds, and missiles of > various kinds at slower speeds. BP has fairly good artificial intelligence > and drone technology, so missiles are probably pretty smart. With clever missiles, you could have a missile which was accelerated by the launching ship, on a vector calculated to be the best intercept after watching any vector changes (evasive maneuvers) by the other ship. The missile could use tiny course adjustments with compressed gas, but not ignite its main engine until the optimum time to intersect the front of the target. Misses would be rare, and it'd be nearly impossible to detect until impact if it stayed with passive scanners. Kinetic weapons as a shield in front of the defender might get it, but remember that space is big, and it could also assume other vectors to the target. It'd be a REAL problem to intercept, and missile defence systems thus far haven't been that effective. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 5:13 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat At what speeds (using the wormhole as a reference point) would combat take place at? Ships in the middle of their trip to the worm hole from Earth, would be traveling between 10,000km/s and 15,000km/s. A day accelerating at 1G is about a 850km/s change in speed. I know that combat can take place at any speed if both ships have about the same velocity. But at what speed does interception make sense? I'm defining interception as detecting, identifying, and chasing down a target. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Stilson [crazycat@orcalink.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:30 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat However, they WOULD all understand the risks; Poseidon is a fragile ecosystem, and even the Incorporate would realize that large-scale warfare could be extremely damaging to that ecosystem (nuclear war could render the entire land surface of Poseidon uninhabitable, which would be undesirable by everyone). The laser AMS might be adapted into an effective heat weapon, but certainly wouldn't be used against missiles because, as I said, nobody would use missiles for fear of, essentially, destroying the planet. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > There is a highly unstable political situation in BP. Many factions are questiontioning the validity of GEO and the Incorporates. Poseidon holds the most valuable mineral in existance. Part of GEO's power comes from controling the wormhole. The Incorporates are building strongholds on Poseidon. Heck, Hanover is completely moving there. On Poseidon they have much more valid claims of being a nation. > > If either GEO and/or the Incorporates are nullified on Earth, then they can retreat to Poseidon. Do you really think that the governments of Earth would get rid of GEO/Incorporates and then allow them control of the one planet that the Long John comes from? The supply line from Earth to Poseidon is a long one and can easily be disrupted.... > > I highly doubt that GEO, the Independent States, the Incorporates, and the Moon government are not researching space combat tactics. > > Mike Z > > In a message dated Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:39:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Chris Stilson" writes: > > << Well, considering that there's only really one government in both the Sol > and Serpentis systems with any real economic or political power (that being > the GEO), the need for space combat would be minimal at worst (some weapons > in the hands of the Gorchoffs, for example, and they have no reason to > actually use them yet). Some Incorporate states might maintain missile > bases, but even then the types of missiles would be standard concussion > explosives; I don't think even the Incorporate or Gorchoff or anyone else > would be stupid enough to maintain nuclear firepower, considering its > ability to render what landmass there is on Poseidon uninhabitable. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 7:37 PM > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > > > > I don't think that missles (in their current form) will be the weapon of > choice. They are easy to spot once they are launched and have a limited > sensor array. A laser anti-missle system (like the ones developed by the US > army and air force) could easily take out enemy missles. > > > > Mike Z > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > > >> > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Stilson [crazycat@orcalink.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:39 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat (nuclear weapons) However, as yet nobody feels ready to issue a large-scale challenge to the GEO's authority, so until, for example, Hanover builds up its presence on Poseidon more, this is all moot except in isolated incidents. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heivilin, Jim" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:01 AM Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat (nuclear weapons) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Stilson [mailto:crazycat@orcalink.com] > > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > > > > Well, considering that there's only really one government in > > both the Sol and Serpentis systems with any real economic or > > political power (that being the GEO), the need for space > > combat would be minimal at worst (some weapons in the hands > > of the Gorchoffs, for example, and they have no reason to > > actually use them yet). > > > While you might think that if you are pondering huge two sided naval > battles, one of the vignettes discusses the space-jacking of a transport > between the wormhole and GEO 1 above Poseidon. > > http://www.biohazardgames.com/post-vignette4.html > > > Some Incorporate states might maintain missile bases, but > > even then the types of missiles would be standard concussion > > explosives; I don't think even the Incorporate or Gorchoff or > > anyone else would be stupid enough to maintain nuclear firepower, > > considering its ability to render what landmass there is on > > Poseidon uninhabitable. > > > You are correct here. The GEO would deploy 17 Heavy Cavalry (or one of the > other Peacekeeper Heavy Cavalry units) if they discovered any evidence that > someone had nuclear weapons. Quick and with predictably lethal results. No > trial, no sentencing, just an autoshot to the back of the head (unless they > were resisting, of course, then they'd get shot in the chest). > > > "Target Eliminated. Objective seized. Mission Complete. Over." > > Trust me, you don't want to meet a Mark V Shock Trooper. > > However, there is still a lot you can do with conventional missiles. Let me > give you a modern day example. The U.S. Army artillery has a Dual Purpose > Conventional Munition (DPCM) that contains a number of small explosive > devices. The round is set for air burst over the target and the bomblets > float on small parachutes down over the target. They can be set to explode > on contact or delay for a predetermined amount of time. They also have > artillery deliverable minefields and rocket assisted projectiles and laser > guided projectiles. Bunches of stuff. And with advances in electronics > there are all kinds of things you could get a conventional missile to do. > > Jim > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:54 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > However, they WOULD all understand the risks; Poseidon is a fragile > ecosystem, and even the Incorporate would realize that large-scale warfare > could be extremely damaging to that ecosystem (nuclear war could render the > entire land surface of Poseidon uninhabitable, which would be undesirable by > everyone). The laser AMS might be adapted into an effective heat weapon, > but certainly wouldn't be used against missiles because, as I said, nobody > would use missiles for fear of, essentially, destroying the planet. If you want to take over Poseidon, you sit a big nuke launcher near the wormhole, and blow up anything that comes through.... Gar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:06 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat I wasn't refering to ships attacking Poseidon from orbit. I am thinking about an invasion force coming from Earth (for whatever reason). Earth has a definate advantage in the production department. Poseidon lacks the manpower and heavy industry to produce enough weapons to defend itself from a large scale assult from Earth. There are only a handful of targets that an invasion force would have to secure before the level of warfare drops to the resistance stage. But before combat can begin on Poseidon, the troops and weapons have to be transported from Earth. The only way that Poseidon can fend off an Earth invasion would be to disrupt the supply lines from Earth.... In a message dated 9/25/00 6:39:49 PM Central Daylight Time, crazycat@orcalink.com writes: << However, they WOULD all understand the risks; Poseidon is a fragile ecosystem, and even the Incorporate would realize that large-scale warfare could be extremely damaging to that ecosystem (nuclear war could render the entire land surface of Poseidon uninhabitable, which would be undesirable by everyone). The laser AMS might be adapted into an effective heat weapon, but certainly wouldn't be used against missiles because, as I said, nobody would use missiles for fear of, essentially, destroying the planet. >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 7:13 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat In a message dated 9/25/00 6:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time, hanrahag@iol.ie writes: << If you want to take over Poseidon, you sit a big nuke launcher near the wormhole, and blow up anything that comes through.... >> Too easy to take out. Before any invasion, there is the usual host of deep cover operatives and special strike forces. If whoever took control of Poseidon tried this, I'd have a group of engineers construct a mass driver in the asteriod belt and start chucking large rocks at the relatively stationary object. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: BIOHZD@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:19 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Sourcebook possibilities... Hey CJ, You ask about interbreeding hybrids. We will certainly be addressing that in issue #7, but I can assure you that there will be no Catrillas or Gorrilines in upcoming supplements. We hope to touch on as much hybrid biology and culture as space will allow but the UC format is limited. That said, what is the interest level in an acutal hybrid source/campaign book? In fact, the deal with FFG is allowing us to consider a number of supplements we had been unable to before, such as Incorporate, cetacean, native and GEO titles. What interest would there be in such books? What sorts of similar titles would you all like to see? Jeff Barber Biohazard Games *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: BIOHZD@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:18 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Moderator's Screen Upgrade Hey All, Michael mentions the moderator's screen... One of my higher priorities is to update the moderator's screen interiors and post them on the website as PDFs. The PDFs can then be printed out and pasted into the screen as an upgrade of sorts. Sound good? I will keep you posted. Jeff Barber Biohazard Games *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Stilson [crazycat@orcalink.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:27 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat Well... as was said before, all you'd need to do to counter that would be tow an asteroid with a big missile silo in it to a vantage point near the wormhole and then blow things up as they came through. It wouldn't be very difficult to defend the Serpentis system from an invasion from Sol. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > I wasn't refering to ships attacking Poseidon from orbit. I am thinking > about an invasion force coming from Earth (for whatever reason). Earth has > a definate advantage in the production department. Poseidon lacks the > manpower and heavy industry to produce enough weapons to defend itself from a > large scale assult from Earth. There are only a handful of targets that an > invasion force would have to secure before the level of warfare drops to the > resistance stage. But before combat can begin on Poseidon, the troops and > weapons have to be transported from Earth. The only way that Poseidon can > fend off an Earth invasion would be to disrupt the supply lines from Earth.... > > In a message dated 9/25/00 6:39:49 PM Central Daylight Time, > crazycat@orcalink.com writes: > > << However, they WOULD all understand the risks; Poseidon is a fragile > ecosystem, and even the Incorporate would realize that large-scale warfare > could be extremely damaging to that ecosystem (nuclear war could render the > entire land surface of Poseidon uninhabitable, which would be undesirable by > everyone). The laser AMS might be adapted into an effective heat weapon, > but certainly wouldn't be used against missiles because, as I said, nobody > would use missiles for fear of, essentially, destroying the planet. >> > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Stilson [crazycat@orcalink.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:29 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat Then what you get is an asteroid fitted with a propulsion system and mount the missiles on that. It would take really big engines, but it could probably be done. Either that or just put a LOT of missile bases near the wormhole; by the time that one of them had been successfully destroyed, enough attention would have been attracted to find whatever's attacking the base and destroy it. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Space Combat > In a message dated 9/25/00 6:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time, hanrahag@iol.ie > writes: > > << If you want to take over Poseidon, you sit a big nuke launcher near the > wormhole, and blow up anything that comes through.... >> > > Too easy to take out. Before any invasion, there is the usual host of deep > cover operatives and special strike forces. If whoever took control of > Poseidon tried this, I'd have a group of engineers construct a mass driver in > the asteriod belt and start chucking large rocks at the relatively stationary > object. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tom Barnes [twb3@primary.net] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Moderator's Screen Upgrade Great idea! Will the PDFs be on the FFG or the Biohazard website? Tom Barnes P.S. See you at Archon... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:41 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Moderator's Screen Upgrade ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Barnes To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Moderator's Screen Upgrade > Great idea! Will the PDFs be on the FFG or the Biohazard website? We'll probably put it up on both sites. Greg Benage FFG *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.