From: DarrenKng@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:41 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - 'Psi' powers.... All pretty plausible. Remember, unless you believe that people have souls (and since BP is hard SF, let's assume for now that characters in it don't) then the human consciousness is nothing but a mass of chemical and electrical impulses... In effect, nothing more than a biocomputer, such as is in common use in the game. And as such, there are so many ways that it could be "hacked" into and read/altered. all it would take is for somebody to decipher the "languge" that the brain operates in (which will probably be slightly different for everyone). DarrenK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: DarrenKng@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:37 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - 'Psi' powers....(possible Spoilers) The aborigines are an obvious example of "Clarke's Magic", i.e. a technology so far advanced beyond ours that to us it is indistinguishable from magic. And yes, it's all plausible... except that it may not be as far ahead of us as you think! Read the short story "Gene Wars" by Paul J. McAuley (in the anthology "The Invisible Country") for an example of such powers in use. DarrenK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: DarrenKng@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:25 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Getting reeeaally off topic... How is the Culture relevent to BP? The technology is too advanced to have ANY bearing on the setting... I mean, I love the books, and would reccomend them to anyone into sci-fi, but I just can't see a connection. Ringworld and Starship Troopers are also great sci-fi, but not good background material for BP. And for background to the Culture, reading the books in the order they were published is the best source. The stories have no connection other than the setting, but Banks slowly elaborates on it. ********ACCESS DENIED***********GMs ONLY PAST THIS POINT!****************** I mean, even the Aborigines... even the CREATORS... would be toast if they ran up against the Culture! how can a civilisation that powerful have any relevence to BP? DarrenK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Mike Czaplinski [mikec@busworks.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - 'Psi' powers.... At 05:49 PM 10/12/01 -0400, Darren King wrote: [snip] >Of course, if someone is determined to include psionics, they will do so. But >didn't the original message say something about using a high-tech spyware/ESP >enhancement combo to SIMULATE psi? Sort of: I was postulating a Long John-based procedure that would basically give the recipient the ability to 'tap into' another brain to read the neural impulses. As an addition to my original proposal: there could also be a concurrent procedure that would have the subject of the telepathic probe be injected with a catalyst to help make their brain patterns discernable to a telepath, leading to all sorts of interesting complications (mind control, deep interrogation, even something really odd like personality imprinting or switching)... MikeC, just an additional thought.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Mike Czaplinski [mikec@busworks.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - 'Psi' powers....(possible Spoilers) At 12:51 PM 10/12/01 +0100, Jason Hockley wrote: [snip] > To try drag this back to a useful discussion, does anyone have any good >ideas for the use of this biomod to keep to the hard science feel of Blue >Planet? Have any of you out there got players in your groups who have or use >one? What sort of help or hindrance has it provided? How do the other >denizens of your games treat the 'psychic' ? Do you include liberal amounts >of superstition and fear or, taking the view that the natives are all >descended from scientists for example, do they just view it as another piece >of equipment? Let us not forget that the Abos' phermone/nanotech powers give them effective psi powers: they can cause a school of fish to 'stampede' and swamp an underwater vehical, or cause a Greater White to go into a feeding frenzy spontaneously, transfer knowledge directly from mind to mind, or even effect human perceptions. For me: it's the fact that the abos can do all this really cool magical stuff with a plausible (if absurdly advanced) technological explanation. MikeC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Mike Czaplinski [mikec@busworks.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:11 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Getting reeeaally off topic... At 12:44 PM 10/12/01 +0100, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- > > > > Hamilton's work should also be read simply because there is so little > > hard-SF > > > stuff out there, mostly space opera. > > > > > Ummm, Clarke? Benford? There is plenty of hard SF out there, it just isn't > > as popular as space opera, so many bookstores carry less of it. > > I know I shouldn't be wasting space with this but I was just wondering >if list members could tell me if Stephen Baxter's work is prevalent over the >other side of the Atlantic? It's probably not really very relevant for Blue >Planet, but he's one hard science fiction author who has always impressed me >(even if only for the sense of scale in some of the books) and on a recent >trip over to Canada I was hard pressed to find his books in shops. Slightly more relevant to BP (and most likely familiar to our British listers) are the Culture novels of Iain M. Banks. Though they exhibit an insanely high level of technology (huge ships run by AI's, planetary engineering etc.), the theme of biological modification of humans is a strong one, as well as his ruminations on the practical realities of space colonization (IE, how it is impractical that the originating powers will be able to hold on to space colonies). Fun, if somewhat dense. I'm reading EXCESSION right now, and although it's pretty good, I'm glad I tracked down some background on The Culture on the 'net before I started reading it. MikeC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:58 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Movies Outland definitely rates. It is THE movie I would recomend for seeing for near future SF. The first Alien movie is also good. Including the themes of encountering the unknown, betrayal by the Company etc. Parts of Bladerunner convey a sense of what I think it must be like back on Earth. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: DarrenKng@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 4:50 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - 'Psi' powers.... Psionics as a pseudoscientific force do not exist in the BP universe, all "psi" powers are simply called such because they mimic the effects of the classic psi-powers. At least, that's how I interpret things. The description of the ESP biomod leaves the cause vague... Just like "real world" psychic phenoma, there will be arguments over what actually causes the enhanced awareness. This could lead to some interesting background detail (an argument with a scientist who holds the opposite view to the players?) but is unlikely to make a difference in practice. Of course, if someone is determined to include psionics, they will do so. But didn't the original message say something about using a high-tech spyware/ESP enhancement combo to SIMULATE psi? DarrenK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Adam Ward [robin_redcap@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:49 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Movies Dear All, This has certainly been done before but its been a dull day and I got to thinking about movies that capture the spirit of Blue Planet. After considering and rejecting Total Recall I thought of this early 80's cinematic oddity: Outland Set on Io, at the ConAm mining station, Outland features the struggle between Federal Marshal O'Neil (Sean Connery) and corruption. The final setpiece is a slow, drawn out, duel that echoes High Noon in depicting moral courage and moral cowardice. In some respects Outland seems an unlikely contender for "best Blue Planet movie" as the environmentalist theme that enlivens BP is missing. But consider, mining stations are standard and the outside environment is uniformly hostile. Corporate requirements mean that miners live in close quarters (perhaps a bed in a barracks with pull down screens) with family a year away. Clothing is often corporate-numbered. The members of the community that should be looked up to for guidance - the doctors and the managers - are corrupt or avoiding trouble, making the dehumanisation worse. The miners have lost leadership, family, individuality, and privacy at the same time. Its a theme of Blue Planet that many players might appreciate. Does this make Outland the best Blue Planet movie? Other contenders would be appreciated. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:07 PM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - GIDFA > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles [mailto:chalz@earthlink.net] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - GIDFA > > > FFG has already donate roughly $1500 from the launch of > > Vortex (which isn't a disk game). I think that they > As they say on the Dork Tower list, Huzzah! And I don't know why I thought it was a disk game. > afternoon), and a signed copy of the PG wouldn't set the > company back that much, and could bring in a few bucks. > Unfortunately if you wanted it signed by *everybody* who worked on it that would be quite a feat since several of them have moved out of Columbia and it would still have to be moved from Minneapolis to here to get both Greg and Jeff's sigs. But still it is a cool idea. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 1:52 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - GIDFA > FFG has already donate roughly $1500 from the launch of > Vortex (which isn't a disk game). I think that they > have already done their part. GIDFA has only raised > just over $6000 (at the time of this writting). > > Mike Z There's still bunches of cool stuff there (and it was $6500 this afternoon), and a signed copy of the PG wouldn't set the company back that much, and could bring in a few bucks. Was just a thought is all. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:18 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - GIDFA FFG has already donate roughly $1500 from the launch of Vortex (which isn't a disk game). I think that they have already done their part. GIDFA has only raised just over $6000 (at the time of this writting). Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 9:14 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - GIDFA > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles [mailto:chalz@earthlink.net] > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - GIDFA > > Greets. Was wondering if the folkses at FFG/BHZD knew about GIDFA. > http://www.gidfa.org .. I didn't notice any Blue Planet or > such stuff up, but I was just skimming. I don't think a signed copy > of the PG would do too horribly, but I could be wrong *chuckles* > I don't know about this specifically but I do know that FFG donated the proceeds from the opening of their new disk game Vortex to one of the funds up in Minneapolis. I'll mention it to Jeff. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 9:12 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.ient.com' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Definition: Spoilers (was: Long John and 'Psi' powers) > -----Original Message----- > From: DarrenKng@aol.com [mailto:DarrenKng@aol.com] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long John and 'Psi' powers.... > (are we supposed to keep quiet about these things, or can > we assume that it won't matter if players read these?). > It's customary to put [Spoiler] in the subject and leave a page of white space at the beginning of the message if you're discussing something that players shouldn't read. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 6:52 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - 'Psi' powers.... ----- Original Message ----- > I prefer to let ESP out of the game, the reason is that from point of view > in all the other games I have played the mystical source of ESP was sounding > more logic than a scientific source. And there is already so many other mysteries > and possibilities in BP that I think the players have enough to deal with. Well this is a personal preference obviously but I thought that the BP book took great pains to state that the ESP biomod had no mystical source and that even its name was just a nod to popular culture really. As I remember it (without my books to hand right this minute) it really isn't much more than a slightly heightened state of alertness. (Note: I carefully used "alertness" instead of "awareness" there. It seems more appropriate) To try drag this back to a useful discussion, does anyone have any good ideas for the use of this biomod to keep to the hard science feel of Blue Planet? Have any of you out there got players in your groups who have or use one? What sort of help or hindrance has it provided? How do the other denizens of your games treat the 'psychic' ? Do you include liberal amounts of superstition and fear or, taking the view that the natives are all descended from scientists for example, do they just view it as another piece of equipment? Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tarliman2@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 6:09 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - ADF, PFH and SF In a message dated 10/12/01 5:48:35 AM Central Daylight Time, gpfarm-dave@northnet.org writes: > Ummm, Clarke? Benford? There is plenty of hard SF out there, it just isn't > as popular as space opera, so many bookstores carry less of it. CJ Cherryh, the Alliance/Union universe. Try Heavy Time, Hellburner, Downbelow Station, Serpent's Reach. Gritty stuff that gives you a real feel for shipboard and stationer life. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 5:37 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - ADF, PFH and SF ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long John and 'Psi' powers.... > > I really like Peter F H's work........but this mindstar esp sounds EXACTLY > like Flinx ADF's novels......which have been around fer ages. > > Alan Dean Foster writes OK space opera. Peter F. Hamilton write truly > brilliant hard SF. I'm not sure about the truly brilliant part, I have actually lost my momentum in "Reality Disfunction" and some of it is very space opera indeed. the distinction will seem pretty irrelevent to anyone who > hasn't read both author's work, but anyone who has will probably agree. Would > you compare the Choronicles of Thomas Covenant to the formula fantasy > trilogies produced by TSR? No, but then ADF is leagues better than that T$R drek any way. A fairer analogy would be the Hobbit and Chronicles of Narnia vs Lord of the Rings and Thomas Covenant. Equally well told stories, but for different audiences, styles, and purposes. Sorry if any ADF fans get up in arms over this, > but I challenge them to read Hamilton and THEN argue with me. > > Hamilton's work should also be read simply because there is so little hard-SF > stuff out there, mostly space opera. > Ummm, Clarke? Benford? There is plenty of hard SF out there, it just isn't as popular as space opera, so many bookstores carry less of it. It is however like saying that Blue Planet is better than Fading Suns. Both are nominally science fiction games.........One is very hard SF the other a Gothic space opera. Fair comparisons across genres or even subgenres are very difficult. You have to separate the qualities of the works from the qualities of the genres. If a person doesn't like science fiction they would likely consign both ADF and PFH to the wastebasket together. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:47 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - GIDFA Greets. Was wondering if the folkses at FFG/BHZD knew about GIDFA. http://www.gidfa.org .. I didn't notice any Blue Planet or such stuff up, but I was just skimming. I don't think a signed copy of the PG would do too horribly, but I could be wrong *chuckles* --Charles *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:19 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Long John and 'Psi' powers.... > I'd prefer to leave ESP out of the game as well, but since the topic has been > raised, it's obvious that not everyone shares this feeling. I agree that it's typically a 'mystical' thing in most games, fantasy etc, and the idea kind of sours to me in BP. > Also, note that there IS a form of psi-power around already (are we supposed > to keep quiet about these things, or can we assume that it won't matter if > players read these?). This is not true psi-power, but a means of imitating Heh. I'm just a player myself; haven't read any of the other books besides Player's Guide (and not entirely). I think typically the method is to warn people of incoming spoilers, like in the subject or whatever. > it, which is what the original post seemed to be talking about. And the long > john is the probable medium for it's use, so it would fit the topic. I was wondering why Long John was included in the first subject, and I didn't really catch on to why when it was about the ESP mod.. Ahh.. > If somebody wants to create pseudo-psionic powers like this, then > Cybergeneration by R. Talsorian is a good place to look. There's another RPG (also a MUD) called Iconoclast which deals with purposely mutated and engineered humans with a bizarre sort of psi abilities. Check out http://www.iconoclast.org/ and if you read about the genotypes (classes/races), they should give an explanation of such things. Or hell, I'll just make it easier. Here: http://iconoclast.org/geno/ Specifically the Daemon, Savant and Psycho in particular. But then again, one of the creators of Iconoclast also writes for R. Talsorian ;) > > DarrenK > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Charles [chalz@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:11 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - 'Psi' powers and PFH Fan Club > And yes, the Mindstar books are a must for inspiration if you want to combine > hard SF and psi-powers. Also, the night's dawn trilogy has some good material > of the subject, although they don't get centre stage like in the Mindstar > books. Primarily, the Edenist "Affinity" technology (pseudo-telepathy) and > Josua Calvert's ability. > He has no cinematic mutant powers, his psi just makes him incredibly lucky > and intuitive... Have you read his short story collection, A Second Chance at Eden? Good material. It's all short stories going from the near future (of now) through the time line to Night's Dawn, and even includes a story about Calvert's father. Some very, very interesting material in that book (includes stories, for instance, relating to the first uses of bitek, the affinity, memory transference, and the bitek habitat, Eden). > And as usual, the original topic gets more and more distant... Maybe any > replies to this should be posted under a different topic so this can get back > to the subject of psi-powers, instead of becoming a forum for arguments over > favourite authors. Who says anything about fave authors? This is the unofficial PFH Fanclub now ;) --Charles > > DarrenK > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.