From: Malcolm Craig [malcolmcraig@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:47 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Advanced weapons technology >thinking about it (I'm studying physics, but I haven't read up on particle >beams) I would imagine that technically the damage would be the energy >released upon impact, since the particle beam is like a >tiny-but-all-powerful open-air particle accelerator. I'm not sure about the >feasibility of such a beam or its cohesion (why it doesn't crack the >atoms/molecules of the medium it travels through, I don't know), but it >would certainly make a great McGuffin for an Incorporate research product. Weirdly enough, I had an adventure based around such a thing myself. Thanks for the scientific input. As I said, I'm by no means a scientist, so I bow to the superior knowledge of others when it comes to subjects such as this. Cheers Malcolm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ville.Halonen@minedu.fi Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 1:50 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: VS: Please remember spoiler alerts (was: [BLUE PLANET] - Great White Tooth fighting knife) Chris Stilson wrote: >Well, when I remember that not everyone is a GM I will include spoiler >alerts. However, I have a bad habit of assuming that everyone else knows >what I do. Join the club. - Ville *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Cjbeiting@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 11:05 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Moonbabies I have a question about one racial package that seems to have escaped the BP rules. Blue Planet is so good at portraying the differences between the various human offshoot races, I was wondering what the denizens of low-G places like Luna and Mars look like. Fiction tends to portray them as tall, spindly, elfin, weak, etc., etc.--what Gurps calls "Moonbabies". Do I assume that the denizens of Luna and Mars in the BP universe fall under these categories? Should "Loonies" all be eight feet tall and rail-slim? Or, should we assume that given the level of genetic engineering, the denizens of both places have enough medicines/durgs/mods to keep their bodies normal sized and their muscle tone strong? Any thoughts? CJ Beiting *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jonathan Perry [jon@pangaea.plus.com] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 12:22 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - PDF Character Sheets Does anyone have a handy dandy PDF character sheet, or know where one can be found? For that matter has anyone come up with a better character sheet than in the back of the book? (I liked the 1st Ed. character sheet myself) Much appreciated I hate bending hardbacks for photocopies :) Jon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 2:37 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - PDF Character Sheets ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Perry" To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - PDF Character Sheets > Does anyone have a handy dandy PDF character sheet, or know where one > can be found? There is a PDF version of the v2 character sheet on the FFG Blue Planet site. Go to: http://www.rpg.net/ffg/bp.html ...and click on "Support." Thanks, Greg Benage FFG *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 4:50 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Moonbabies > Do I assume that the denizens of Luna and Mars in the BP universe fall under > these categories? Should "Loonies" all be eight feet tall and rail-slim? Eight-feet? Rail-slim? Probably not. Personally, I think that the effect of the moon's gravity is most likely overstated in fiction (but again, I'm not expert). I would say that they have a significantly higher average height and tend to have very poor muscle tone. Health problems in a heavier gravity well would certainly be common. As for character information, I might have a point or two penalty to Endurance or such attributes, but nothing majorly drastic, mainly for reasons to mention below. > Or, should we assume that given the level of genetic engineering, the > denizens of both places have enough medicines/durgs/mods to keep their bodies > normal sized and their muscle tone strong? I would think that lunar gravity would be a problem on par with diabetese today. Treatable, but not cured or horribly debilitating. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion "Smiling fishee please don't attack me" - Steven Martini, "Corduroy Penis" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Stilson [crazycat@orcalink.com] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 5:03 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Artificial Intelligence This is copied from the Storm Surge general forum: Well, I just got Fluid Mechanics, and I have to say that it's awesome, in spite of not having as many specific weapon makes as I would like (and not having any vehicle or weapon creation rules, and costing more than I was really willing to pay... but that's beside the point). However, what really struck me about it was the section on computers. Now, since it says that DNA computing is a viable technology, that means that I can now apply my ideas about creating artificial intelligences to Blue Planet. The idea is something along the lines that a person's genetic makeup provides a basic blueprint for determining how that person will react, in general, to certain stimuli. Which means that a person's typical reactions can be stated as a mathematical formula (a complex mathematical formula, but at least it can be done). So, if computations were being done with a basic binary coding system, all that would be essential to do is to find out what the formula is and apply it, thereby creating an AI. Now, with a quaternary coding system that would be provided by a gene computer, this would make the job of creating an AI so much easier, since it would be possible just to create an entire genetic code that would perform the AI functions. It would be difficult, and would require a detailed knowledge of the human genome as well as extensive programming skill and a LOT of spare time, but with the state of technology in Blue Planet, it definitely could be done. It seems like there's a start toward that sort of tech already, since bodycomp familiars seem to work on a limited form of AI... so, any comments? Am I way off on the technical parts of my theory (since I'm a humanities student, not a science student, I'm not certain whether I've got my facts right)? -- ChrisTheS www.stormsurge.org *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Werner [wernerj@swbell.net] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 12:59 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Artificial Intelligence Chris: I think that, to a great extent, your theory holds in general detail. However, I've got one nit to pick... > The idea is something along the lines that a person's genetic makeup > provides a basic blueprint for determining how that person will react, in > general, to certain stimuli. Which means that a person's typical reactions > can be stated as a mathematical formula (a complex mathematical formula, but > at least it can be done). I would add "life experiences" to the genetic makeup. Put a trained soldier under fire, and their reactions are likely going to be very different from mine. I'll scream and shout, run in circles. They'll do something worthwhile. We could just as easily be the same person at totally different points in our lives, with the only significant difference being how much training we've had. So, if computations were being done with a basic > binary coding system, all that would be essential to do is to find out what > the formula is and apply it, thereby creating an AI. Assuming that you use the definition of AI as "something you can have a typed conversation with and not tell whether or not it's a human being." Now, if you require an AI to actually be self-aware - to percieve its own existence, then reactions to stimuli give you not an artificial intelligence, but an artificial flatworm. Poke here, and it turns there. Shine a blue light, and it pushed the red button for a food pellet. Crash CommCore, and do appropriate things, apply a trade embargo, and start stockpiling, etc. The only difference is the variety of stimuli the program can respond to. You eventually get to a point where the array of possible stimuli becomes dizzying. But, is it aware? Do we care? Regardless, it's pretty cool. SPOILER WARNING Hugo D4 is, if memory serves, aware of its own existence. Not only does it react to stimuli, but it has its own motivations, changes according to rules that are essentially inscrutiable. This (1) means that if we're going to have AI's, they have to meet substantially more than the most basic test, and (2) #1 is certainly possible, since it's been done. -Jason Werner *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Stilson [crazycat@orcalink.com] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:31 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Artificial Intelligence > I would add "life experiences" to the genetic makeup. Put a trained soldier > under fire, and their reactions are likely going to be very different from > mine. I'll scream and shout, run in circles. They'll do something > worthwhile. We could just as easily be the same person at totally different > points in our lives, with the only significant difference being how much > training we've had. RE: I'm just talking about "creating" one. What it does after that is its own business. What I mean is that the genetic predisposition is all that would need to be considered in actually developing the AI; after that, it should, in theory, be able to develop through experiences (presumably an AI would begin to learn the same way a human child does just after being born). > > Assuming that you use the definition of AI as "something you can have a > typed conversation with and not tell whether or not it's a human being." > Now, if you require an AI to actually be self-aware - to percieve its own > existence, then reactions to stimuli give you not an artificial > intelligence, but an artificial flatworm. Poke here, and it turns there. > Shine a blue light, and it pushed the red button for a food pellet. Crash > CommCore, and do appropriate things, apply a trade embargo, and start > stockpiling, etc. The only difference is the variety of stimuli the program > can respond to. RE: I was working on the assumption that we'd be working with a gene computer to assemble the necessary genetic code for controlling things like self-awareness, memory, predispositions, and the ability to learn. I only mentioned the predispositions in the earlier post to convey the general idea. The point is that all the parts of the genetic code necessary for a sentient consciousness would be able to be reproduced via quaternary coding. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: BIOHZD@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 11:35 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Artificial Intelligence Hey Chris, You write: The point is that all the parts of the genetic code necessary for a sentient consciousness would be able to be reproduced via quaternary coding. >>>>There is ultimately no difference in the amount of information you can code for with a binary or a quaternary system - two values can be coded to represent four, which in turn could be used as a quaternary system. The advantages of a DNA based storage medium are ones of size and access. DNA molecules are tiny structures, yet hold vast amounts of information. Additionally different parts of the stored information can be accessed simultaneously, enhancing the speed and nature of the possible output. Intrinsically there is nothing about DNA that allows for intelligence. Ameoba have DNA and make for poor conversationalists ; ). The key to intelligence as it appears in more complex organisms is the three dimentional structure of their brains. I claim no advanced understanding of congnitive architecture, but what little I do know emphasizes the importance of the pattern and density of the nerve cell interconnections of the brain. Though the DNA code initially determines original brain structure, it is the brain that actually does the thinking. Therefore, for a BP computer to achieve AI, it would need something other than a DNA storage device. It would need a physical architecture that would somehow mimic the structure of the human brain. Spoiler... 5 4 3 2 1 That is why with Hugo D4, the key elements to its "awakening" were the new, experimental programming and access laser. These could be analogous to the interconnectedness and associative patterns neurologists think are key to the physical mechanisms that allow for conciousness and thought. Hope this helps, Jeff Barber Biohazard Games *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.