From: David Chart [hist@dchart.demon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 10:40 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Fueling Stations On 27 Oct 2001 11:05:43 -0400, Ml10@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/27/01 8:49:15 AM Central Daylight Time, > hist@dchart.demon.co.uk writes: > > > I've not been able to find one, so I'd be interested in the answer. (And > > times to trickle-charge a fuel cell from a solar panel. > > Trickle-charge a fuel cell ?!? A fuel cell isn't a battery, it burns hydrogen > for energy with water vapor as its exhust. True, but you charge them by setting up a solar panel, having it crack water (plenty of *that* on Poseidon), and trickling the resulting hydrogen into the cell. I'm pretty sure that there are references to that in the books. Since there's actually something trickling into the cell, I'd say 'trickle charge' is a good way of describing it. -- David Chart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 10:06 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Fueling Stations In a message dated 10/27/01 8:49:15 AM Central Daylight Time, hist@dchart.demon.co.uk writes: > I've not been able to find one, so I'd be interested in the answer. (And > times to trickle-charge a fuel cell from a solar panel. Trickle-charge a fuel cell ?!? A fuel cell isn't a battery, it burns hydrogen for energy with water vapor as its exhust. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Adam Ward [robin_redcap@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 3:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Fueling Stations Hmmm. Fuelling stations. A bit of a tough one really as they depend on hwo you, as a gamer, view Poseidon. I have a fairly practical take on the fuelling stations. I see them as less of a mon n' pops gas station in the wilderness and more of a community trading station servicing those who live deep in the wilderness. They also develop over time depending on location, numbers and Long John. A starting fuelling station would feature a small group of individuals, perhaps a family unit. Their basic stock would include food, basic clothing, fuel, alcohol, recreational drugs, survival gear and some common spare parts. Much of their normal food would be locally caught or raised but trading items might well be imported from larger settlements. They would also probably offer a restaurant (How many places on Poseidon are called "Mom's diner"?) because deepwoods people tend to get really tired of both their own cooking and canned foods. A real apple pie cooked by someone else is something that, after a week or more of mining, is mouthwatering - and expensive. They would also offer a cash based economy deep in the Outback, for which both cash paid or barter offering prospectors/woodsmen would be grateful. Technologically they would have a small generator (wind or tidal powered leaps to mind), CommCore and GPS systems, and basic electronic entertainment systems such as piped music. They would also have a fairly good hurricane shelter unless they are suicidal. Even this could be used as a local resource to encourage others to come to their station in times of trouble. As I see it their job is to trade and that requires that they have people going by, being out in the middle of nowhere is very inspring for later generations, but for practical business people makes very little sense. This means that fuelling station traders are smart, hard, and always looking for the main chance. For them bankruptcy means way more than Chapter 11. It also makes them a playable group of colonists, kind of like bonanza with without cattle, and with a dash of "Only Fools and Horses". As stations get larger, and the area becomes busier and more settled, they hire staff. Among the staff are technicians to repair vehicles, weapons, and other systems. They might recruit a local nurse or dentist. They may purchase more advanced equipment for trade, or even heavy goods such as agricultural equipment and seeds for other settlements. Most will almost certainly hire prostitutes to work for them. As time goes on this collection of small businesses attracts people to base themselves in the area. A Long John field would cause a huge influx of people and make the original settlers very, very wealthy - as they were set up first. After the initial flood of miners and assorted opportunists there arrive lawyers, priests, criminals and law enforcers to take their place in society. Given enough time the original inhabitants will either become prosperous "founding fathers" or find themselves forced out by the incomers. And so the small fuelling station can become a larger settlement, perhaps declining in town to a ghost settlement if the strike fails to pan out: "First the silver ran out, then the whiskey ran out, then the miners ran out and then the beer ran out"... Anyway that is my take on fuelling stations in the wilderness. And its worth about tuppence (or two cents to the US) Adam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: DarrenKng@aol.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 4:52 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Fueling Stations The cost of hydrogen fuel is hidden (like so many other things) in the intro to the players guide. The relevant section (from page 16) is:- "Just as important as your vehicle is the fuel that keeps it running. Most of the larger settlements on Poseidon offer both commercial and government stations where you can get your tanks topped off. The cost of hydrogen at these facilities averages half-a-scrip per litre. Even the smallest of settlements will often have a solar unit that can crack hydrogen, and the locals are usually willing to negotiate a fill-up. I've found that a stranger in an outlying settlement can expect to pay as much as two scrip per litre. In many of these settlements, of course, barter goods or long john will greatly facilitate the negotiations." The hydrogen stills are listed in Fluid Mechanics. Exact figures are not given, simply a range of costs and output (like a lot of BP tech). The smallest costs 1850cs, weighs 12 kilos, and produces 2-3 litres per day. The largest costs 4.5 million cs, weighs 3 metric tons, and produces several hundred thousand litres per day. No power requirements are given (the power source entry says "various") but I'd imagine a single square metre solar panel could power the first one, while the biggest would need to be linked to the power grid of a fusion generator in a big settlement. The hydrogen stills used by the fuelling stations proposed here will obviously fall between these two extremes. I'd simply assumed that players would fill up at incorporate stations or barter for surplus fuel in small settlements, as the extract above implies. But the discussions here started me thinking... The stats for hydrogen stills show that the bigger they get, the more efficient they get. Therefore, somebody who has a bigger still can produce more fuel, and more cheaply, than somebody with a small still. Now, if a settlement has enough people coming through it and buying surplus fuel, somebody is going to have the idea of investing in a bigger still and undercutting everybody, thus getting a monopoly on fuel sales. And from this, the fuelling station continues to grow into what other people have been describing here. So the fuelling station idea DOES make sound economical sense in the BP setting, and if it makes sense, somebody will be doing it. Of course, the moment the settlement gets big enough to warrant a fusion generator, somebody (almost certainly incorporate) will install one of the BIG stills, and drive all the independents out of buisiness. There's no way that they could compete with the output of the largest stills, or afford to purchase one themselves. So... any settlement large enough to have a decent traffic volume, but too small to have a fusion generator, will almost certainly have a fuelling station. I'm not sure about the stations out in the middle of nowhere, though... If you look at the maps of the pacifica archipelago, most vehicles can get to any point on the map by leapfrogging from one settlement to another, thus there would be no point to the isolated fuelling posts. There may be one or two, but I can't see them being common. DarrenK *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 5:02 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Fueling Stations > So... any settlement large enough to have a decent traffic volume, but too > small to have a fusion generator, will almost certainly have a fuelling > station. I'm not sure about the stations out in the middle of nowhere, > though... If you look at the maps of the pacifica archipelago, most vehicles > can get to any point on the map by leapfrogging from one settlement to > another, thus there would be no point to the isolated fuelling posts. There > may be one or two, but I can't see them being common. > > DarrenK This does not mesh with my experiences with looking at vehicle range and travel distances, jump craft and even most vtols can't make it from the Haven Cluster to Westcape or the Zion Islands, even by leapfrogging the settlements. this why I asked about fuel stations way back months ago. And forget about places like Little Fish. Thank you for digging out the fuel prices.> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: DarrenKng@aol.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 5:22 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Fueling Stations In a message dated 27/10/01 23:14:48 GMT Daylight Time, gpfarm-dave@northnet.org writes: << This does not mesh with my experiences with looking at vehicle range and travel distances, jump craft and even most vtols can't make it from the Haven Cluster to Westcape or the Zion Islands, even by leapfrogging the settlements. this why I asked about fuel stations way back months ago. And forget about places like Little Fish. >> Good point- I'd been looking at the smaller maps. Most vehicles are OK when travelling within an island cluster (like the haven cluster or new hawaii), but the stations would indeed be useful at certain points in between the clusters. DarrenK. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.