From: eric baierl [ebaierl@csd.uwm.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 7:36 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Greg Benage wrote: > Now, retailers have various ways they can shelve an RPG book. If all our > books are shelved with the cover out for all to see, that's great. But it > doesn't happen all that often. Typically, as you will no-doubt know from > your regular trips to the game store, they're shelved in a book rack, one > behind the other. A lot of times, all you'll be able to see is the top third > or so of the book. Pinnacle responded to this recently by putting the title > logo at the top of the book and the Deadlands logo at the bottom. We didn't > agree with this move, figuring that Deadlands was the brand name that should > jump out at the browser, not the name of whatever supplement it was. We > finally decided on the BP approach, with the Blue Planet logo prominent and > the title of the supplement in a more subdued font across the top. I really > like it, and the retailers I've spoken to seem to think it's effective as > well. > > Probably more than needed to be said on the matter, but I thought it might > be interesting to some folks. And, of course, I realize it's ultimately a > matter of taste, so you have my sympathies if it's not to your liking. ;) > > Greg Benage > FFG Actually thats a great explanation and makes more sense than "It looked cool" Nice to see BP and FFG actually care about the look of a game as well as teh cotent. eric baierl *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: necrobob [necrobob@mail.compfxnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 7:19 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Greg Benage" Reply-To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:59:28 -0600 >We wanted the BP covers >to have a very distinctive look, so when customers saw them on the store >shelf, they instantly recognize them as Blue Planet. Pinnacle did a great >job with this with the Deadlands line -- you see that fiery orange cover, >and you know instantly what you're looking at. Oh, Blue Planet has that, too, even without the huge BP logo. >books are shelved with the cover out for all to see, that's great. But it >doesn't happen all that often. Heh. Ironically, in this case, you're right. My local game shop keeps most of the books on the sort of rack you're talking about. However, the weird cover thing didn't keep me from finding the books I wanted for BP, since they put those books (along with several other less well-known RPGs- apparently, nobody around here has heard of Blue Planet) on a regular bookshelf, with the spine facing out. So I definitely like that part of the cover- big, easy to read titles on the spine. Heck, my BP books are on a shelf across the room and I can read them from here. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Paul Lesack [lesack@interchange.ubc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 10:27 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all Actually, I thought the first edition books had a far more distictive "look" than the new version. Not only were they easier to read, but they made more sense graphically. It was the look of the V1 book which made me get it in the first place. It's lack of cheesy RPG cover art hinted at quality content inside. The old books look good displayed on a table; the new books say "RPG!". My non-gaming friends (and that's most of them) pick up the V1 rulebook and Archipelago and flip through them. They'd just snicker at the new covers. The art and graphic design are so poor that I can't bring myself to buy them. I've tried 3 times. And I buy GURPS books. . .I found the art in Fluid Mechanics so bad that I wished that FFG had put out a text-only version. I know the designer worked hard -- layouts like that take a long time. I appreciate what Blue Planet is trying to do. I just think that the older, technical look was a far superior way to go, especially for a game as hard-SF as Blue Planet. Just so you don't think I'm nitpicking ignoramus -- I've worked as a graphic designer for years. I'm sure I'll cave eventually. I like the concept of BP enough to ignore all the art and design issues. I just can't do it right away. Ach, it's all personal taste anyway. I wish Biohazard/FFG the best of luck. Besides, I'm sure they've done market research and my views are in the minority. Paul Greg Benage wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Extreme Championship Bob > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:08 PM > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all > > Heh. Okay, there have been several questions about this issue, so I reckon > I'll address it briefly. Basically, when the graphic designer put together > the look of the v2 books, he was thinking about how they look on the > shelves, and specifically how they represent the Blue Planet brand, not just > how they look when you're holdin' 'em in your hands. We wanted the BP covers > to have a very distinctive look, so when customers saw them on the store > shelf, they instantly recognize them as Blue Planet. Pinnacle did a great > job with this with the Deadlands line -- you see that fiery orange cover, > and you know instantly what you're looking at. The same holds true for WW's > Storyteller books, and WotC appears to be doing something similar with the > D&D line. > > Now, retailers have various ways they can shelve an RPG book. If all our > books are shelved with the cover out for all to see, that's great. But it > doesn't happen all that often. Typically, as you will no-doubt know from > your regular trips to the game store, they're shelved in a book rack, one > behind the other. A lot of times, all you'll be able to see is the top third > or so of the book. Pinnacle responded to this recently by putting the title > logo at the top of the book and the Deadlands logo at the bottom. We didn't > agree with this move, figuring that Deadlands was the brand name that should > jump out at the browser, not the name of whatever supplement it was. We > finally decided on the BP approach, with the Blue Planet logo prominent and > the title of the supplement in a more subdued font across the top. I really > like it, and the retailers I've spoken to seem to think it's effective as > well. > > Probably more than needed to be said on the matter, but I thought it might > be interesting to some folks. And, of course, I realize it's ultimately a > matter of taste, so you have my sympathies if it's not to your liking. ;) > > Greg Benage > FFG > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ml10@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:50 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all In a message dated Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:39:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Paul Lesack writes: <> To be fair, your non-gaming friends are not the people that will be buying Blue Planet. The covers have to catch the attention of gamers who might actually buy the book. The new covers also attract new people to play the game. I tried for 2 years to get people to play Blue Planet at my local game club. Now I have a pool of 9 players and a weekly game. They see the covers and get interested in the game. << The art and graphic design are so poor that I can't bring myself to buy them. I've tried 3 times. And I buy GURPS books. . .I found the art in Fluid Mechanics so bad that I wished that FFG had put out a text-only version. I know the designer worked hard -- layouts like that take a long time. >> Good Grief! Am I the only other person on the planet that likes the artwork in BP V2? Almost everyone that has mentioned BP V2 online has commented on how they hated the artwork. Mike Z *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Paul Lesack [lesack@interchange.ubc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 12:19 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Design discussion Ml10@aol.com wrote: > < non-gaming friends (and that's most of them) pick up the V1 rulebook and > Archipelago and flip through them. They'd just snicker at the new > covers. >> > > To be fair, your non-gaming friends are not the people > that will be buying Blue Planet. The covers have to > catch the attention of gamers who might actually buy > the book. > That's the point exactly. You want to attract *new* people. Market expansion, etc. My friends would like to try BP because of the old cover. Not so with the new. Too cartoony. They will actually try BP, once I get around to setting something up. D&D is working for several reasons, one of which is that the art appeals to people who aren't necessarily gamers. Especially the cover art. At the very least, the covers are designed to entice a non-gamer to pick up a book and browse through it at the store. And I've seen it happen at many shops around town. D&D covers have a similar design to the box art on the game Myst, which brought computer gaming to millions of people who would never have considered buying a computer game. I'm fairly sure that was a conscious design decision. Copycat advertising and design is nothing new. The new BP covers don't succeed in this department, in my opinion. They're too locked in the insular world of gaming. The old ones worked because they appealed to the people who read National Geographic, etc. The major problem was the lack of availability in mainstream (ie, non-gaming) stores. Or availability in *any* store, for that matter. At least around here. >Good Grief! Am I the only other person on the planet >that likes the artwork in BP V2? Almost everyone that >has mentioned BP V2 online has commented on how they >hated the artwork. I haven't encountered anyone who likes it, yet. I live in Canada, though. Maybe it's a cultural thing. . . However, compare the picture of the Utility Jumpcraft in V1 with the one in V2. Which one looks more like a realistic transport vehicle? Anyway, arguing over the merits of the art and design is fruitless, as we have no way of changing anything. The most important thing, for players of BP at least, is the quality of the text, and that remains staggeringly high, especially in the slipshod quality of the RPG market. Paul *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 1:56 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - layout, design and artwork > To be fair, your non-gaming friends are not the people > that will be buying Blue Planet. The covers have to > catch the attention of gamers who might actually buy > the book. perhaps, but personally I like laid-back, subtle covers more. The first edition basic book cover was _awesome_. The new covers are too comic-booky for my tastes. > The new covers also attract new people to play the game. > I tried for 2 years to get people to play Blue Planet > at my local game club. Now I have a pool of 9 players > and a weekly game. They see the covers and get > interested in the game. Damn, you're lucky :) I think that one of the biggest problems with Blue Planet is that it is a hard game to summarize and sometimes even harder to visualize, at least if you haven't read the books. Just flipping through it in the store or trying to get a summary in a minute or so leaves you cold and thinking "What the hell is this about?" It's strange that one of the game's great strengths is also its main weakness in getting new players :) > Good Grief! Am I the only other person on the planet > that likes the artwork in BP V2? Almost everyone that > has mentioned BP V2 online has commented on how they > hated the artwork. I really like the guy who does the watercolors (I think I mentioned that before), but beyond that I find the layout design and the art to be below the standard that the first edition set. It doesn't drive me off, just makes me itch a bit ;) What I would like to know is whether or not _all_ supplements are going to be hardcover like Fluid Mechanics. It ups the price a bit, but then again I do love hardcover. - kabael - Kintaro Oe - Derek the Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 the McGuffin Group - the End Times - RPG Action - the Thirteenth Legion "Smiling fishee please don't attack me" - Steven Martini, "Corduroy Penis" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jeb Boyt [jeboyt@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:07 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Greg Benage" Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:00:22 -0600 BTW, the cover graphics and text for First Colony are up on the FFG website at: http://www.rpg.net/ffg/bp.html ================================= Cool. Love the cover, and love the promise of four ready-to-run adventures. Jeb _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Paul Lesack [lesack@interchange.ubc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:34 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all Hey, I like that cover. I hope the art inside is as good. Is Haven really that big? They don't have buildings that large in Vancouver, and there's over a million people here. I'd hate to be in one of those during a storm. . . Is this just a case of artistic license? Or maybe it's because I'm used to visualizing small Native settlements by the beach. Paul Jeb Boyt wrote: > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Greg Benage" > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:00:22 -0600 > BTW, the cover graphics and text for First Colony are up on the FFG website > at: > > http://www.rpg.net/ffg/bp.html > ================================= > > Cool. Love the cover, and love the promise of four ready-to-run adventures. > > Jeb > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: necrobob [necrobob@mail.compfxnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:49 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - greetings all >Hey, I like that cover. I hope the art inside is as good. It would kinda have to be better than most of the v2 core artwork...I rather like some pieces, such as the cover of the PG, but the rest is rather lacking...nice layout and production, though. >Is Haven really that big? Apparently so... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Steve Davis [otha70@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 6:51 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - artn & layout >Good Grief! Am I the only other person on the planet >that likes the artwork in BP V2? Almost everyone that >has mentioned BP V2 online has commented on how they >hated the artwork. I'm mixed on it myself. Personally, I like the cover art, especially Fluid Mechanics. I love the pictures of the aborginies throughout the line so far. My only real complaint is that I really prefer for art work in a gaming suplement to complament the text on the page. So far I've seen a great job on that end in the sections dealing with equipment, mods, and such. In the game mechanics & background sections I was a little disapointed with the text/art discordence. I'm not saying it wasn't there at all, its just something that struck me. Steve Davis _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Extreme Championship Bob [necrobob@compfxnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 8:57 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Testing This is only a test. If this had been an actual emergency, you would have heard the sound of me being eaten by a greater white. ____________________ Necromancer Bob, doing the Time Warp again... Visit The Gate: Necromancer Bob's Domain at: http://www.intws.com/necrobob AOL IM: NcroBob ICQ #78542780 Necromancer Bob wondered why, exactly, Olympus would have an oyster bar. Some things were just too weird for mortal (or even, come to think of it, immortal) comprehension. -Necromancer Bob On Olympus *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Troy Gustavel [troy_nevermore@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:55 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - layout, design and artwork > > Good Grief! Am I the only other person on the planet > > that likes the artwork in BP V2? Almost everyone that > > has mentioned BP V2 online has commented on how they > > hated the artwork. I like the art in the new edition, just not as much as the old one > > What I would like to know is whether or not _all_ supplements are > going to > be hardcover like Fluid Mechanics. It ups the price a bit, but then > again I > do love hardcover. I LIKE the hardcovers. Yes it makes them a tad more expensive, but They are excellent quality and I expect them to last me a long time. I would vastly prefer all the supplements to be hardcover ===== Troy Gustavel 5825 Bolender Rd. Akron, OH 44319 (330)882 5468 Troy_Nevermore@Yahoo.com "Once upon a midnight dreary..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.