From: Adam Lewis [adamswork@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:25 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency --- Rachel Kronick wrote: > Hi all! > Hello! -- please have > a look at my web > page if you have time. I haven't read everything, but let me say that the map you did is amazing! I was really impressed. (Although your fictional "Aryan American States" makes me wonder about the US's image in Taiwan) > For a bit of on-topicness -- does anyone think that > the /Blue Mars/ > offers a possible solution to the Natives' dilemma? > That is to say, the > Natives should just get organized, hammer out a > statement of principles, > make sure the media 'faucet' is wide-open, and then > just try to live > their lives nicely? If the Incorporates try > anything, the Natives can > put it on media everywhere. Well, this may not be an appropiate comparison, but imagine Native Americans in the US trying the same thing. They have easily been subjected to more injustices than the Natives of BP and they have always tried to "get the message out". Without control of the media and without a majority opinion, any such boycotts or demonstrations will have little affect. But it's a great campaign idea if your players are Natives. AdamL Good Gaming! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Atti2dboy@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:13 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Some thoughts on the "newbie" thread... In a message dated 11/9/99 6:56:31 PM, gbenage@ix.netcom.com writes: >I'm fundamentally opposed to losing large quantities of money. Now if >we could do printruns, say, 20% the size of White Wolf's, maybe we >could sell a $15 book. That won't happen, though, as long as people >would rather just photocopy the parts of the book they want. > >I'm sorry you're opposed to the $27.95 we charge for BP. If it makes >you feel any better, we're not making any money on it. >I don't want to get into a discussion of the economics of RPG >publishing, but I just thought I'd add my two corporate scrip... I apologize. I was under the impression that print-on-demand had made small print runs economically feasible. From now on I'll try to keep from commenting on both RPG publishing and weather on worlds with a hydrosphere over 90%. :) =Rich "I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Michael Czaplinski [MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 2:00 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Some thoughts on the "newbie" thread... > From: Greg Benage [mailto:gbenage@ix.netcom.com] [snip] > I'm fundamentally opposed to losing large quantities of money. Now if > we could do printruns, say, 20% the size of White Wolf's, maybe we > could sell a $15 book. That won't happen, though, as long as people > would rather just photocopy the parts of the book they want. > > I'm sorry you're opposed to the $27.95 we charge for BP. If it makes > you feel any better, we're not making any money on it. Well, speaking as a notorious cheapskate (who misses the days when $10 would get you a book the size of Archipeligo), I must say that of all the games on the market that charge +/1 $30 for their basic rules, BLUE PLANET is about the best value for the dollar I've seen. Most of the other books are filled with art of varying qualities that add nothing to the playability of the game they're trying to hawk, whereas Biohazard chose (wisely, in my view) to spend the space & production effort on producing quality writing and usable ideas for GM's, rather than lightboxed tracings of some overinflated Playboy centerfold tricked up with post-apocolyptic tatters. <*Not that there's anything wrong with overinflated Playboy centerfolds, mind you; I just don't see how that makes up for shoddy rules or scenarios, or how that justifies prices of upwards of $15-$20 for thin supplements or adventures*> I would add, though, that some sort of short booklet (a la GURPS Lite, or the TRINITY or CONSPIRACY X intros) with just the basic BP rules & bare-bones world intro, downloadable in PDF format, perhaps, would be a good thing. MikeC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Michael Czaplinski [MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 2:32 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Landsrechts (was "Flame the newbie!") > From: Kevin L. Nault [mailto:jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] > > "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > > > > Gurkhas. Another group you *really* don't want to be on > the wrong side of. > > Now I demonstrate the gaping holes in my knowledge: > > What's a Gurkha? The Gurkha Regiment (alternate spelling: Ghurka) is perhaps the most elite regular army regiment in service today. It is made up of Nepalese soldiers loyal to the British Crown (the regiment was first formed in the early 1800's to fight under Queen Victoria's army in Britain, after they had conquered Nepal), and has become rightly legendary for their skill and bravery in battle. They are most well known for their use of the 'kukri' knife: a honkin' big piece of steel that is as close to a broadsword as you will find in service today. Though they are a 'regular' unit of the Royal Army, the Ghurkas straddle the world of special ops, since they are typically used for high-risk missions (such as recon, penetrations behind enemy lines, rough terrain (especially mountains and jungle), and anti-terrorist strikes). Even after Nepal won their independence from Britain, they remained in British service (providing the Nepalese with much-needed foreign capital in the form of allotments from serving Ghurkas) and proved their worth in the postwar world of guerrila fighting by serving with distinction in Malaya (modern day Malaysia) and across the Commonwealth. There is a story I heard from the Falklands war that a well defended Argentine garrison (manned with perhaps a company or two) surrendered to the Brits on the strength of the mere rumor that a squad of Ghurkas was joining the siege on their position, but who knows if that's really true. What is true is that they are serving in Kosovo and East Timor as part of the peacekeeping forces. What is true is that they serve the British Empire to this day, and when I get around to making up my BP game, I will probably include them somewhere (I'm not sure that they'd still be in British Service in 2199; the depridations of the Blight probably diminished British world influence to almost nil, though I can imagine that the loyal Ghurkas would have easily made the transition to GEO service, where their experience in dealing with unconventional warfare would have served GEO well during the brushfire wars of the Blight, and I can easily imagine them present on Poseidon, kukris on their hips, in GEO service, at least a company or two of them anyway). For the official Royal Army history of the Royal Gurkha Rifles (the current incarnation of this storied unit), see: http://www.army.mod.uk/army/organise/infan/gurkha/index.htm MikeC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:30 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Oooh! Oooh! I've got it! > And back. How's this for a Con adventure: hijacking > an Incorporate > interstellar cargo ship full of Long John? You'd > need a GEO sympathizer > or two, maybe a Native insurgent, Merchant Crew and > a Pilot (someone's > got to drive the thing after you steal it). The > actual adventure would > probably end with stealing it (or not), with most of > it being concerned > with getting to the thing, getting aboard, and > jumping the crew. Well, the problem there being thatyou're going to end up back on Earth (assuming that you make it there) which is a fairly uninteresting place compared to Poseidon, and also there isn't much information available as to what it's like nowadays (hey, there's an idea for a sourcebook.......) ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:25 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Landsrechts (was "Flame the newbie!") On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 03:31:57 -0500 Michael Czaplinski wrote: > > From: Kevin L. Nault [mailto:jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] > > > > "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > > > > > > Gurkhas. Another group you *really* don't want to be on > > the wrong side of. > > > > Now I demonstrate the gaping holes in my knowledge: > > > > What's a Gurkha? > > The Gurkha Regiment (alternate spelling: Ghurka) is > perhaps the most elite regular army regiment in service > today. You know, it's odd but I'm on several mailing lists that seem to contain many members of various military organisations and they all seem to say a lot about the British military producing some of the best Special Forces in the world. I've no particular experience in this, but from what I heard from a former US Marine it's usually the British that are asked to send out their guys to train half the rest of the world. According to one person, there is at least one US Marine instructor who sometimes uses the sentence "If you train really hard, and are exceptionally talented and gain years of experience you might one day begin to think of yourself as approaching the level of a Royal British Marine" in his introductory speech. Again though, I'd like to say that pretty much all this information is second hand. The only real link I have is that my grandfather was a member of the 9th Paras during WW2, the group that later went on to form the core of the SAS apparently. To me he seems a mild mannered gardening fanatic, but when my father was little he used to tell him some of the tricks they were taught for combat behind enemy lines. Let's just say these guys don't follow the Marquis de Queensbury's rules. > What is true is that they serve the British Empire to this > day, and when I get around to making up my BP game, I will > probably include them somewhere (I'm not sure that they'd > still be in British Service in 2199; the depridations of > the Blight probably diminished British world influence to > almost nil, though I can imagine that the loyal Ghurkas > would have easily made the transition to GEO service, where > their experience in dealing with unconventional warfare would > have served GEO well during the brushfire wars of the Blight, > and I can easily imagine them present on Poseidon, kukris on > their hips, in GEO service, at least a company or two of them > anyway). Well, seeing as I am British and I have some knowledge of their structure due to my mother working for the EU I feel I should make a few comments here. Frankly, after the Blight hits the British Isles, we're screwed. At the moment the UK produces enormous amounts of food through very efficient industrial farming methods. In fact, we produce such a surplus that we supply food to much of continental Europe too. Consequently, if this food supply gets hit with a plague like the Fischer virus there's going to be an awful lot of people in trouble in Britain. Just to judge from their attitudes today, with the beef problems and so on, I could see quarantine and martial law being established in attempts to keep the plague away from the country. It might even work for a while, there are benefits to being an island nation. They also have supplies stored up that could probably keep the country going for a few years with appropriate rationing. Still, by the time the whole thing is over they're going to be in an especially bad state I think. Of course, this is all my opinion so you can take it however you wish. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:36 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Some thoughts on the "newbie" thread... On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 03:00:06 -0500 Michael Czaplinski wrote: > > I'm sorry you're opposed to the $27.95 we charge for BP. If it makes > > you feel any better, we're not making any money on it. > > Well, speaking as a notorious cheapskate (who misses the days when > $10 would get you a book the size of Archipeligo), I must say that > of all the games on the market that charge +/1 $30 for their basic > rules, BLUE PLANET is about the best value for the dollar I've seen. Well, working out the exchange rate here it appears that I paid about the same amount for the main rulebook as you Yanks did. To be honest, I've never been more pleased with a RPG purchase. If I had known the contents before ordering it I would have been quite happy to pay more. The donation to the Cousteau Foundation especially pleased me. The price I paid for Archipeligo was far higher than anything I would consider normally, but the game is so amazing that I felt it to be worth it. Conversely, I was expecting Access Denied to cost more for what I got. > I would add, though, that some sort of short booklet (a la > GURPS Lite, or the TRINITY or CONSPIRACY X intros) with just > the basic BP rules & bare-bones world intro, downloadable > in PDF format, perhaps, would be a good thing. Having made the comments above, I would have to say that this really would help a lot. As I've mentioned before I've had trouble getting groups together to play Blue Planet and much of the problem stems from the introduction. The stuff that they shouldn't see is just scattered around too easily for the players to see. It makes it a lot more enjoyable for me to read, but I don't really want my players knowing anything about the Aborigines before starting the game So explaining the background and game world becomes a major undertaking for someone as talentless as me. I'm pretty certain that if I had had just a short booklet or something that I could download and print out then I could have sold at least another 5 copies of the main rulebook by now. It doesn't even have to be anything new. Just a collection of some of the more relevent sections in an orderly format. I've tried doing this myself by photocopying the timeline, the survival guide and a few of the wildlife and stories sections. The trouble is that I then needed to go through and edit a few references to Aborigines, and edit or highlight the less or more important areas of the timeline. The whole thing ends up looking a bit messy and is overly long despite the editing. I don't think you really need to include the rules either. The basic mechanic is fairly simple and anything else you can probably explain as the need arises. It works for most RPGs. Anyway, I'll stop ranting now and let you return to your regularly scheduled email. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:45 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? I was just wondering something. The original colonists on Poseidon were all aquamorph humans, right? So presumably any cetaceans that are there now are later additions. So how exactly are they transported there? Is it the same system with a different shaped 'coffin' ? For that matter, are there any dolphin piloted spacecraft? I know it's been mentioned before but presumably they would be more used to working in 3 dimensions than most humans. This is all based on a total lack of knowledge about cetacean physiology beyond what I can remember of various emails to this list over the last year or so. Any help would be appreciated. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:01 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - BP product line (was: Some thoughts on the newbie thread) "Most of the other books are filled with art of varying qualities that add nothing to the playability of the game they're trying to hawk, whereas Biohazard chose (wisely, in my view) to spend the space & production effort on producing quality writing and usable ideas for GM's, rather than lightboxed tracings of some overinflated Playboy centerfold tricked up with post-apocolyptic tatters." Yep. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again: " ... need ... more ... orca ... pics ..." *gasp, collapse* Heh. I just like to know what my character races look like without having to check out books from the Museum of Comparative Zoology. But then again, I'm lazy, so don't mind me. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:12 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency Rachel Kronick wrote: (Although your fictional "Aryan American States" makes me wonder about the US's image in Taiwan) I'm not surprised about how people outside the US view us: all they have is the spin we live with. You know, everyone in the US is white, middle class, heterosexual, works a corporate job, lives in the midwest, etc. Most of America buys the same spin, so what are people who don't even *live* here to think? I recently read that over 90% of Americans self-identified as being members of the middle class, which is unbelievable. Ok, no, it's not unbelievable, in fact I believe it totally, but I'm still shocked, considering the reality of the situation. Not that our Taiwanese coconspirator (Ni hao! from Massachusetts, USA!) necessarily thinks we live in the Aryan Americas per se, but to be honest *I* thought of the future USA to be much the same... "Well, this may not be an appropiate comparison, but imagine Native Americans in the US trying the same thing. They have easily been subjected to more injustices than the Natives of BP and they have always tried to "get the message out". Without control of the media and without a majority opinion, any such boycotts or demonstrations will have little affect. But it's a great campaign idea if your players are Natives." Yeah, well. I mentioned this in another thread, but I can speak to this a little. My own native american grandfather was removed from his parents in Kentucky in the 1920s and placed with a white family because it was 'better for him;' no matter that the family he was placed with treated him badly enough that he joined the Marines underage to get away from them and refused to go back to see any of them for 50 years. As recently as the 1980s, indian women were being sterilised by US Department of Health doctors. It's sick. I can't believe that people can do these kind of things to each other on the basis of their race or class or gender or whatever. On a lighter note, I'd love to hear about people's experiences running Native campaigns. Seems like an interesting hook, because it plunges the players neck-deep in all the interesting parts of Blue Planet: smack dab in the alien environment without the familiar cushion of Earth-style cities and cultures, with biomods and yet minimal other technology to minimise their contact with this new environment. What say ye? - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:16 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - BP product line (was: Some thoughts on the newbie thread) On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:00:31 -0500 Brian Betty wrote: > Yep. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again: > > " ... need ... more ... orca ... pics ..." > > *gasp, collapse* > > Heh. I just like to know what my character races look like without having > to check out books from the Museum of Comparative Zoology. But then again, > I'm lazy, so don't mind me. Surely everyone knows at least roughly what Dolphins and Orcas look like? There are variations, but there are pictures of them all over the place. Personally I'd like a few more pictures of the Hybrids, as I'm still not 100% sure what they look like. Despite the picture in Archipeligo of Geronimo Pachecho my mind keeps drifting back to Planet of the Apes and Thundercats. Mind you, I'm going to *really* punish anyone coming out with "Thunder! THUNder! THUNDERCATS... HO!" if I can ever get a game going. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Michael Czaplinski [MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:21 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? > From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk] > > I was just wondering something. The original > colonists on Poseidon were all aquamorph humans, right? So > presumably any cetaceans that are there now are later > additions. So how exactly are they transported there? Is it > the same system with a different shaped 'coffin' ? For that > matter, are there any dolphin piloted spacecraft? I know > it's been mentioned before but presumably they would be > more used to working in 3 dimensions than most humans. This > is all based on a total lack of knowledge about cetacean > physiology beyond what I can remember of various emails to > this list over the last year or so. Any help would be > appreciated. ISTR that the original colonists were a mixture of aquaforms and 'phins (since they had been uplifted a couple of decades before the colonization project), so I would presume that the coffin-shipment procedure would be similar, with the only difference possibly being that they would not need quite so harrowing a dermal scrubbing as humans, since they could be bathed in anti-bacterial chemicals more easily than humans. As far as 'phin crewed ships: I wouldn't think that there would be too many, if at all. Though they have the intellect to do it, I can't imagine that human governments (wary of the potential for the technology to fall into the hands of Whalesong extremists) would let them have the resources to construct them, probably with the justification that they're 'just not ready for it', kind of like how a father would not let his 14 year old son take the wheel of a car. The only organization that could concievably have them would be Hydrospan, but again: they probably don't have more than one or two, and I'm sure that Dundalk and Atlas Materials use 'phin techs on their orbital facilities (since they would be used to weightlessness), but not much more than that. MikeC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:30 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Michael Czaplinski wrote: > > From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk] > > > > I was just wondering something. The original > > colonists on Poseidon were all aquamorph humans, right? So > > presumably any cetaceans that are there now are later > > additions. So how exactly are they transported there? Is it > > the same system with a different shaped 'coffin' ? For that > > matter, are there any dolphin piloted spacecraft? I know > > it's been mentioned before but presumably they would be > > more used to working in 3 dimensions than most humans. This > > is all based on a total lack of knowledge about cetacean > > physiology beyond what I can remember of various emails to > > this list over the last year or so. Any help would be > > appreciated. > > As far as 'phin crewed ships: I wouldn't think that there > would be too many, if at all. Though they have the intellect > to do it, I can't imagine that human governments (wary of > the potential for the technology to fall into the hands of > Whalesong extremists) would let them have the resources > to construct them, probably with the justification that > they're 'just not ready for it', kind of like how a father > would not let his 14 year old son take the wheel of a car. Disagree. I doubt there would be any ships enitrely crewed by fins, but I'd imagine fin pilots and navigators would be common enough. I'd guess that dolphins can handle thinking in 3 dimensions better than humans can. Gar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Michael Czaplinski [MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:40 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? > From: Gareth Hanrahan [mailto:hanrahag@iol.ie] [snip my opinion that 'phin crewed ships are, at best, very rare] > Disagree. I doubt there would be any ships enitrely crewed by > fins, but > I'd imagine fin pilots and navigators would be common enough. > I'd guess > that dolphins can handle thinking in 3 dimensions better than > humans can. I was basing my judgement on the assumption that 'phins would require different (and more extensive) life support systems than humans. Granted, both breath air, and certainly 'phins would be much more at ease in a non-gravity environment, but they still require water to keep their skin from drying out, as well as for optimal use of their natural sonar, even in zero-G, unless they were outfitted with special suits, which would also be an impediment to 'mixed media' (as it were) operations. Unless such ships went the other way, and had a token crew of humans with breathing gear or aquaforms on a ship designed primarily with 'phins in mind (after the SEEKER from Brin's Uplift series), but that brings up the question of whether the 'phins could get the resources to construct it in the first place. MikeC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:38 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:30:27 +0000 (GMT) Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > As far as 'phin crewed ships: I wouldn't think that there > > would be too many, if at all. Though they have the intellect > > to do it, I can't imagine that human governments (wary of > > the potential for the technology to fall into the hands of > > Whalesong extremists) would let them have the resources > > to construct them, probably with the justification that > > they're 'just not ready for it', kind of like how a father > > would not let his 14 year old son take the wheel of a car. > > Disagree. I doubt there would be any ships enitrely crewed by fins, but > I'd imagine fin pilots and navigators would be common enough. I'd guess > that dolphins can handle thinking in 3 dimensions better than humans can. Well I wasn't even considering a ship crewed by 'fins. It would probably be logistically impractical anyway. 'fins use drones and the like though so I don't see why they couldn't make good pilots, even if it's just done by remote. Though I imagine that the delay in signal time might make that unlikely too. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:39 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line Jason wrote: "Surely everyone knows at least roughly what Dolphins and Orcas look like? There are variations, but there are pictures of them all over the place. Personally I'd like a few more pictures of the Hybrids, as I'm still not 100% sure what they look like. Despite the picture in Archipeligo of Geronimo Pachecho my mind keeps drifting back to Planet of the Apes and Thundercats. Mind you, I'm going to *really* punish anyone coming out with "Thunder! THUNder! THUNDERCATS... HO!" if I can ever get a game going." Yah, well, I'm just thinking a pics section: an orca, a dolphin, some sea lions, some mods, and voila! Sure and I know *roughly* what an orca looks like, but I like to be able to *look* at them. For example, I keep going back to look at the little snapshot of Bataku about to chew someone's head off. I'm a visual kinda guy. But let me stress that I'm only hoping for a little art. Maybe you BPers could make a support booklet like what's been suggested in this and other threads that has pics, or maybe you could get a couple pics posted on the BP page. Or a special edition of Undercurrents with BP art? I don't want to bankrupt ye with art, I'm just hoping for something to look at so I can describe it evocatively. Boys are visual creatures. For example, I expect that mods would be sleek and blubbery (what's the point of having the ability to hold your breath for a long time if you freeze to death during a dive?) but whenever I think blubbery, I don't think sleek. We only got Darwins on Realearth and they don't have elastin-reinforced blubber, only droopy chub. Give me elastin, or give me death! And what do resealable nostrils look like - do Divers have flat and low noses? Next on the list: BP action figures! Man-eating Bataku! Pokerfaced lawmen! Savage tribesmen! Horny dolphins!. Erh ... no. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:50 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Michael Czaplinski wrote: > > From: Gareth Hanrahan [mailto:hanrahag@iol.ie] > > [snip my opinion that 'phin crewed ships are, at best, very rare] > > > Disagree. I doubt there would be any ships enitrely crewed by > > fins, but > > I'd imagine fin pilots and navigators would be common enough. > > I'd guess > > that dolphins can handle thinking in 3 dimensions better than > > humans can. > > I was basing my judgement on the assumption that 'phins would > require different (and more extensive) life support systems > than humans. Granted, both breath air, and certainly 'phins > would be much more at ease in a non-gravity environment, but > they still require water to keep their skin from drying out, > as well as for optimal use of their natural sonar, even in > zero-G, unless they were outfitted with special suits, which > would also be an impediment to 'mixed media' (as it were) > operations. How about a "navigation deck" which is flooded? One section of the ship is dedicated to fins. I guess it would depend on just how good the fins are at piloting,and whther it's worth having them on board. > MikeC Gar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Greg Benage [gbenage@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:48 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? -----Original Message----- From: Gareth Hanrahan To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:34 AM Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? >On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Michael Czaplinski wrote: >Disagree. I doubt there would be any ships enitrely crewed by fins, but >I'd imagine fin pilots and navigators would be common enough. I'd guess >that dolphins can handle thinking in 3 dimensions better than humans can. Yeah, but not nearly as well as computers can. And that's what is doing most of the spacecraft piloting and navigation in 2199. Greg Benage Biohazard Games *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:49 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:39:06 -0500 Brian Betty wrote: > But let me stress that I'm only hoping for a little art. Maybe you BPers > could make a support booklet like what's been suggested in this and other > threads that has pics, or maybe you could get a couple pics posted on the > BP page. Or a special edition of Undercurrents with BP art? That would almost certainly cost them a lot. Art is fairly expensive usually I think. I could be wrong though. Still, I expect there is stuff on various web pages around if you're willing to search for it. > I don't want to bankrupt ye with art, I'm just hoping for something to look > at so I can describe it evocatively. Boys are visual creatures. For > example, I expect that mods would be sleek and blubbery (what's the point > of having the ability to hold your breath for a long time if you freeze to > death during a dive?) but whenever I think blubbery, I don't think sleek. > We only got Darwins on Realearth and they don't have elastin-reinforced > blubber, only droopy chub. Give me elastin, or give me death! And what do > resealable nostrils look like - do Divers have flat and low noses? Resealable nostrils?!? I never noticed that bit. Are they necessary? I admit I've never gone to any great depths but I personally have never had problems with water getting in through my nose underwater. > Next on the list: BP action figures! Man-eating Bataku! Pokerfaced lawmen! > Savage tribesmen! Horny dolphins!. > > Erh ... no. Heh. That might be neat though. I wonder if they have them *in* the game? You could have kids running around playing with their Marshall Church dolls! Or fully poseable GEO Hybrid Peacekeeper toys! And there is at least one mention of a stuffed Orca doll already. Ah. I'm replying to too much stuff today. Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:52 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:48:23 -0800 Greg Benage wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Gareth Hanrahan > To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com > > Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:34 AM > Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? > > > >On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Michael Czaplinski wrote: > > >Disagree. I doubt there would be any ships enitrely crewed by fins, > but > >I'd imagine fin pilots and navigators would be common enough. I'd > guess > >that dolphins can handle thinking in 3 dimensions better than humans > can. > > Yeah, but not nearly as well as computers can. And that's what is > doing most of the spacecraft piloting and navigation in 2199. Ah. Yes. Good point. I really should have thought of that before I started. Maybe I'm just in the wrong frame of mind. I was starting to get a picture of a 'fin in a rocket powered flying harness for a minute there. Jason "Look! Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a Plane? Hang on... a fish?!?" (And YES, I know they aren't fishes! It just sounded better) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:00 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? Jason wrote: "Well I wasn't even considering a ship crewed by 'fins. It would probably be logistically impractical anyway. 'fins use drones and the like though so I don't see why they couldn't make good pilots, even if it's just done by remote. Though I imagine that the delay in signal time might make that unlikely too." If they were to fly a plane, it would not be through intermediary. Why not a sonar bridge instead of a sonar-manipulator intermediary? Just my 2 fins. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:05 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line Jason wrote: "Resealable nostrils?!? I never noticed that bit. Are they necessary? I admit I've never gone to any great depths but I personally have never had problems with water getting in through my nose underwater." At 300 feet? I bet, lah. I can seal my nostrils internally, but many people cannot and have to hold their noses. I was onyl assuming they had sealable nostrils because I can't imagine a Diver without 'em. But I'm sure we're all familiar with my brand of insanity *and* the old saying that 'to assume makes as ass of you and me'. So perchance ignore me. "And there is at least one mention of a stuffed Orca doll already." In the same article with the pic of Bataku I keep checking out. I'm inspired to go to the aquarium tomorrow here in Boston and pic up one for myself, incidentally. "Ah. I'm replying to too much stuff today." You and me alike, bud. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: paulw@betanet.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:08 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line > > But let me stress that I'm only hoping for a little art. Maybe you BPers > > could make a support booklet like what's been suggested in this and other > > threads that has pics, or maybe you could get a couple pics posted on the > > BP page. Or a special edition of Undercurrents with BP art? > > That would almost certainly cost them a lot. Art is > fairly expensive usually I think. I could be wrong though. > Still, I expect there is stuff on various web pages around > if you're willing to search for it. I don't know how much BHG pay artists, but friends who have done work for the RPG industry don't get paid much. For Ultima Thule: Mythic Scandinavia, two friends of mine received something like $25 for a quarter-page picture, $50 for a half and $100 for a full page. Bare in mind as well that these are not professional artists, but amateurs with the gift of drawing. I have no idea what sort of profit margin BHG work on, but setting a competition where the winners get their work published and a free copy of the relevant book must be cheaper than paying cash. Cheers! Wiggy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:15 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:05:27 -0500 Brian Betty wrote: > Jason wrote: "Resealable nostrils?!? I never noticed that bit. Are they > necessary? I admit I've never gone to any great depths but I personally > have never had problems with water getting in through my nose underwater." > > At 300 feet? I bet, lah. I can seal my nostrils internally, but many people > cannot and have to hold their noses. I was onyl assuming they had sealable > nostrils because I can't imagine a Diver without 'em. But I'm sure we're > all familiar with my brand of insanity *and* the old saying that 'to assume > makes as ass of you and me'. So perchance ignore me. Well I expected pressure to make a difference. I just wasn't sure what difference as they are apparently altered enough to cope with it in other respects. I really hadn't realised that there are people that *have* to physically hold their noses when underwater though. > "And there is at least one mention of a stuffed Orca doll already." > > In the same article with the pic of Bataku I keep checking out. I'm > inspired to go to the aquarium tomorrow here in Boston and pic up one for > myself, incidentally. Actually the one I was thinking of was in Natural Law, but I probably shouldn't elaborate any further without spoiler warnings. Still, I'm sure a few dolphin and orca dolls could help as props for a game. > "Ah. I'm replying to too much stuff today." > > You and me alike, bud. Yeah. How about we go away and form our own mailing list! Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:36 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - CWTh & stuffed orca references Jason noted, "I really hadn't realised that there are people that *have* to physically hold their noses when underwater though." My sister, for one. So if something smells bad, I lock off my nose with some muscle structure in there, but my sister has to hold hers, and if she goes swimming and the air bubble stuck in her nose gets dislodged (say if she swims downwards), she gets water in her sinuses. My problem is my ears. Even 10' of water is enough pressure to shove liquid into my ear, which hurts me. That's a bigger problem for divers, but I'm not sure that it would be a visible change. "Actually the one I was thinking of was in Natural Law, but I probably shouldn't elaborate any further without spoiler warnings. Still, I'm sure a few dolphin and orca dolls could help as props for a game." Oh, right. For the game, of course. *chuckle* Right next to my stuffed orang-utan, which is for ... um ... a game about monkeys. Yeah, I'm ... uh ... inventing one. Right. Speaking of orcas, what do we think about the status of divers and the Church of Whalesong Theogony? - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:50 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - CWTh & stuffed orca references On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:35:34 -0500 Brian Betty wrote: > Jason noted, "I really hadn't realised that there are people that *have* > to physically hold their noses when underwater though." > > My sister, for one. So if something smells bad, I lock off my nose with > some muscle structure in there, but my sister has to hold hers, and if she > goes swimming and the air bubble stuck in her nose gets dislodged (say if > she swims downwards), she gets water in her sinuses. That's really weird. It had never occured to me and I'm still not sure I can imagine what that would be like. > My problem is my ears. Even 10' of water is enough pressure to shove liquid > into my ear, which hurts me. That's a bigger problem for divers, but I'm > not sure that it would be a visible change. I have that problem too, and so does my father. Unfortunately it pretty much destroyed my father's dream too. From the age of about 5 onwards he wanted to be a diver, but when he started trying it he ran into this problem (apparently burst eardrums are painful, as if you couldn't guess). He gets quite bitter at times about it, but now is concentrating on boat designing, which he hopes to be able to make a business of one day. You can no doubt see how it's helpful to have someone like this around when you want information on Blue Planet. Anyway, back to the point. We've recently discovered that there is an operation you can have that inserts something into the ear to counteract this problem, so presumably it has been conquered enough by the time they work out the aquamorph mods so that it isn't a problem. > "Actually the one I was thinking of was in Natural Law, but I probably > shouldn't elaborate any further without spoiler warnings. Still, I'm sure a > few dolphin and orca dolls could help as props for a game." > > Oh, right. For the game, of course. *chuckle* Right next to my stuffed > orang-utan, which is for ... um ... a game about monkeys. Yeah, I'm ... uh > ... inventing one. Right. Hrm. I'm *sure* there must be a game somewhere that could use that. > Speaking of orcas, what do we think about the status of divers and the > Church of Whalesong Theogony? My brain hurts. Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:09 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Diver/Squid ear structures Jason wrote, "We've recently discovered that there is an operation you can have that inserts something into the ear to counteract this problem, so presumably it has been conquered enough by the time they work out the aquamorph mods so that it isn't a problem." Yeah, well, I rather assumed a radical ear redesign for Divers and Squids alike. Otherwise us monkeys couldn't hear properly underwater. But I hadn't gotten deep enough into realearth sea mammal ear designs to guess how that would be done: maybe next year, or I can ask my sister when she's in vet school next year. She muttered something recently about sea mammals, so perhaps she'll turn out to be my fount of knowledge. -stuffedorcaboy - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:11 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - (Books) Melissa Scott Speaking of novels and authors, has anyone here read Melissa Scott's 'Dreaming Metal' series? Imagine her take on a watery future ... ooh boy would that be cool, she has such a knack for weird future trends, music, and other artforms. I bet she'd be all over dolphin sound art displays and neohuman 'music' for those of us who no longer have human-style external ear systems (whales and delphinoids receive sound through their jaws). - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:49 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? > How about a "navigation deck" which is flooded? One > section of the ship is > dedicated to fins. I guess it would depend on just > how good the fins are > at piloting,and whther it's worth having them on > board. There are some obvious problems with having instruments in a flooded area, like the fact that water and electricity don't mix (at least not in the way you would want them to). No matter how well engineered the area was to keep the sensitive electronics away from the water, it would still be much more vulnerabl;e to mishap than an air-filled area. Probably best to leave that sort of thing to the air-breathers ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:51 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line > I have no idea what sort of profit margin BHG work > on, but setting a > competition where the winners get their work > published and a free copy of > the relevant book must be cheaper than paying cash. But what are the printing costs for including more art in the books? ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:53 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Diver/Squid ear structures > Yeah, well, I rather assumed a radical ear redesign > for Divers and Squids > alike. Otherwise us monkeys couldn't hear properly > underwater. But I hadn't > gotten deep enough into realearth sea mammal ear > designs to guess how that > would be done: maybe next year, or I can ask my > sister when she's in vet > school next year. She muttered something recently > about sea mammals, so > perhaps she'll turn out to be my fount of knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but humans hear just fine underwater (in fact, a lot better than we do in the air, but that's because water is more viscous than air and thus transmits sound better). ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:08 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Diver/Squid ear structures "Correct me if I'm wrong here, but humans hear just fine underwater (in fact, a lot better than we do in the air, but that's because water is more viscous than air and thus transmits sound better)." Sound gets all confusing because we have problems determining the direction the sound is travelling from. I can't remember all the problems, but even though the sound passes easier, there are problems with clarity. Also, there is the simple issue that we hear through compression waves passing through air: diving can cause ear drum problems. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Rachel Kronick [rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:43 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency Hi all! Uh oh, two people wrote responding to my post before I could respond... My brain is splitting... Aaaah... I guess I'll just respond to the latter of the two (Brian Betty's), but include Adam Lewis' post inside that. Brian Betty wrote: > [some very nice things] Hmm, which map were you talking about, Brian? I think all my own stuff is fairly atrocious on average, but thank you for the compliment anyway. > [about what Rachel Kronick wrote:] >> (Although your fictional >> "Aryan American States" makes me wonder about the US's image in Taiwan) > > I'm not surprised about how people outside the US view us: all they have is > the spin we live with. You know, everyone in the US is white, middle class, > heterosexual, works a corporate job, lives in the midwest, etc. Most of > America buys the same spin, so what are people who don't even *live* here > to think? I recently read that over 90% of Americans self-identified as > being members of the middle class, which is unbelievable. Ok, no, it's not > unbelievable, in fact I believe it totally, but I'm still shocked, > considering the reality of the situation. > > Not that our Taiwanese coconspirator (Ni hao! from Massachusetts, USA!) > necessarily thinks we live in the Aryan Americas per se, but to be honest > *I* thought of the future USA to be much the same... > Um, well, first off, I hate to be annoying, but I'm not Taiwanese. My citizenship is thoroughly 'Murcan, and I'm probably whiter (and therefore uglier, at least in my eyes) than most folks on the list. (Scandinavian ancestry will do that.) I have been studying Chinese for about half my life, though, and I think I have a fairly good handle on what most Taiwanese people think about most things. BUT my history is not the product of a Taiwanese person; it's purely the product of my own weirdness. Yet another "but," though. Most Taiwanese people do have terribly stereotyped images of Americans in their minds. They'll easily look at one of my co-workers (who's every bit as American as I am, but has Sinitic ancestry) and say "You look American." They simply don't conceive of "America" (actually, the term annoys me a lot, but it's the lingua franca, unfortunately) as being much other than what Hollywood sends them. > "Well, this may not be an appropiate comparison, but imagine Native > Americans in the US trying the same thing. They have easily been subjected > to more injustices than the Natives of BP and they have always tried to > "get the message out". Without control of the media and without a majority > opinion, any such boycotts or demonstrations will have little affect. But > it's a great campaign idea if your players are Natives." Of course, everything Brian stated seems quite correct to me. But with the right backing, and some hacking, who knows? > > Yeah, well. I mentioned this in another thread, but I can speak to this a > little. My own native american grandfather was removed from his parents in > Kentucky in the 1920s and placed with a white family because it was 'better > for him;' no matter that the family he was placed with treated him badly > enough that he joined the Marines underage to get away from them and > refused to go back to see any of them for 50 years. As recently as the > 1980s, indian women were being sterilised by US Department of Health > doctors. It's sick. I can't believe that people can do these kind of things > to each other on the basis of their race or class or gender or whatever. That sounds utterly terrible, and unfortunately, extremely predictable for the US government. About my whole "Aryan American States" idea: I personally think that the US has really, seriously not dealt with the huge inequalities and injustices which are threaded throughout American history. President Clinton, if I'm not mistaken, even refused (or was it declined?) to officially apologize for the harm caused by the enslavement of Africans in the US, and things like the injustices done to Native Americans don't even register on most Americans' radar screens. (When was the last time you saw Richard Gere shut up about Tibet and try to reverse some of the ills done to Native Americans?) Unfortunately, I don't see any kind of coming to terms being done any time soon. I think that, as with many things, the resolution will only come when the other side (the racists) push the balance too far in their favor. I want to make it very clear that I'm not at all in favor of Aryanism. My stance in creating the AAS was that the US has simply not done enough to rid people of their racisms, and attempts to get rid of this kind of hatred will probably occur on a large scale only once the 'other side' pushes it to a confrontation. Notice, though, that the USA in my future history did become a much nicer and possibly more just place after the rise of the AAS: the granting of independence to Alaska and the Native American Republic, etc. Anyway, I get the feeling I'm babbling... To bring this back to something approaching a topic, I'm sure that racism is a huge motivating factor for many anti-nativist groups. "Danged gill-suckers, ain't even human and they tell me what I can do on my own land?" Interesting adventure hook: A GEO official caught between racists intent on killing as many "muties" as possible, and a terrorist band of natives. The racist frying pan or the terrorist fire? > > On a lighter note, I'd love to hear about people's experiences running > Native campaigns. Seems like an interesting hook, because it plunges the > players neck-deep in all the interesting parts of Blue Planet: smack dab in > the alien environment without the familiar cushion of Earth-style cities > and cultures, with biomods and yet minimal other technology to minimise > their contact with this new environment. What say ye? > > - Monkeygod (8-0) > > My big secret > is gonna hover over your life > -Fionna Apple > ************************************************************************** Unfortunately, I have no experience at all in running /Blue Planet/ campaigns of any kind, so I have nothing to share on that front. Hopefully soon, though. Hope this has been useful or at least interesting. -- Rachel Kronick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Derek Guder [kabael@bu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 1:39 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - (Books) Melissa Scott "Dreaming Metal" was very good, and I enjoyed "Trouble and Her FRiends" as well, but that's all I've read by her. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 2:57 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency I wrote: "Not that our Taiwanese coconspirator (Ni hao! from Massachusetts, USA!) necessarily thinks we live in the Aryan Americas per se, but to be honest *I* thought of the future USA to be much the same..." You replied: "Um, well, first off, I hate to be annoying, but I'm not Taiwanese. My citizenship is thoroughly 'Murcan, and I'm probably whiter (and therefore uglier, at least in my eyes) than most folks on the list. (Scandinavian ancestry will do that.) I have been studying Chinese for about half my life, though, and I think I have a fairly good handle on what most Taiwanese people think about most things. BUT my history is not the product of a Taiwanese person; it's purely the product of my own weirdness." I did not receive your initial post (can anyone tell me why not?), and so was responding to Rachel's bit mentioning you were writing from Taiwan. 'pologies about any confusion. I was responding to Rachel's comments about how other countries must view the USA ... You observed, "Yet another "but," though. Most Taiwanese people do have terribly stereotyped images of Americans in their minds. They'll easily look at one of my co-workers (who's every bit as American as I am, but has Sinitic ancestry) and say "You look American." They simply don't conceive of "America" (actually, the term annoys me a lot, but it's the lingua franca, unfortunately) as being much other than what Hollywood sends them." Yeah, I'm just remembering "Heiren" toothpaste here ... Incidentally, I've been all over Asia and consistent opinions on Americans are scary ... they think we are heavily armed, violent, rude, criminal people on one side and rich, kind, etc. on the other. Dontcha just love stereotypes? But there's a hint of truth in all that, I think ... "I want to make it very clear that I'm not at all in favor of Aryanism." Of course that was understood. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 3:15 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - In news today In today's news: Living Underwater: The Aquarius Habitat http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/exped_undersea991109_pa rt1.html - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 3:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Blueheart >BTW: Has anyone read "Blueheart" by Alison Sinclair? From the blurb on the >back cover it sounds very similar to BP. Wait ... "Blueheart"? Sounds like "Braveheart" for Blue Planet. Wow! What an idea... "They may take our fish, but they'll never take our freedom!" Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 3:45 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] British Military > You know, it's odd but I'm on several mailing lists >that seem to contain many members of various military >organisations and they all seem to say a lot about the >British military producing some of the best Special Forces >in the world. Although I have little or no army experience, I have to say that I've heard the same. >I've no particular experience in this, but >from what I heard from a former US Marine it's usually the >British that are asked to send out their guys to train half >the rest of the world. According to one person, there is at >least one US Marine instructor who sometimes uses the >sentence "If you train really hard, and are exceptionally >talented and gain years of experience you might one day >begin to think of yourself as approaching the level of a >Royal British Marine" in his introductory speech. I remember hearing a paraphrased quote from a Naval Methodology-type book on submarines, where it was said "The navies of the world respect the American submarine forces as being some of the best. They fear the British..." Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David Chart [hist@dchart.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 4:14 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] British Military --On Wednesday, November 10, 1999 21:44 +0000 Christopher Gribbon wrote: >> You know, it's odd but I'm on several mailing lists >> that seem to contain many members of various military >> organisations and they all seem to say a lot about the >> British military producing some of the best Special Forces >> in the world. > > Although I have little or no army experience, I have to say that I've > heard the same. At the cinema once, I saw a recruitment advert for the Royal Marines ("Join the most elite fighting force in the world") followed by a trailer for GI Jane ("The US Navy Seals: the most elite fighting force in the world")... I also remember a comment that went roughly as follows: "The SAS are essential to our national pride. We might have lost an Empire, the World Cup, and our manufacturing industry, but we do have this bunch of guys who are Dead Hard." :-) Hmmm... I wonder if there's some has-been corp in 2199 that's renowned for its Special Ops division. Say, one that specialised in food production, and is still called something like General Foods (but not that exactly), but which now makes most of its money hiring out 'security specialists'. David Chart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 5:06 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? > ISTR that the original colonists were a mixture of aquaforms > and 'phins (since they had been uplifted a couple of decades > before the colonization project), so I would presume that True > As far as 'phin crewed ships: I wouldn't think that there > would be too many, if at all. Though they have the intellect > to do it, I can't imagine that human governments (wary of > the potential for the technology to fall into the hands of > Whalesong extremists) would let them have the resources > to construct them, probably with the justification that > they're 'just not ready for it', kind of like how a father > would not let his 14 year old son take the wheel of a car. But the flipside is that psych screening could pick out the wackos, and you'd be left with a crew more familiar with three-D movement. > The only organization that could concievably have them > would be Hydrospan, but again: they probably don't have > more than one or two, and I'm sure that Dundalk and Atlas > Materials use 'phin techs on their orbital facilities (since > they would be used to weightlessness), but not much > more than that. Actually, my major question about 'fin spacers is whether it'd happen - you still have weight underwater, and an orientation on an up-down axis. They're more familiar with 3-D movement, but would they be comfortable with weightlessness? (Biohazard Guys?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 5:16 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Oooh! Oooh! I've got it! Christopher Sakal wrote: > > > And back. How's this for a Con adventure: hijacking > > an Incorporate > > interstellar cargo ship full of Long John? You'd > > need a GEO sympathizer > > or two, maybe a Native insurgent, Merchant Crew and > > a Pilot (someone's > > got to drive the thing after you steal it). The > > actual adventure would > > probably end with stealing it (or not), with most of > > it being concerned > > with getting to the thing, getting aboard, and > > jumping the crew. > > Well, the problem there being thatyou're going to end > up back on Earth (assuming that you make it there) > which is a fairly uninteresting place compared to > Poseidon, and also there isn't much information > available as to what it's like nowadays (hey, there's > an idea for a sourcebook.......) World of Hurt - check the release schedule on their website. As for your other comments: a) It's a convention game, who cares where they end up? b) If they succeed, the ship'd still be insystem (this is the flaw in my clever plan - what do a bunch of Natives and sympathizers do with a starship (that can't enter a planetary gravity well). Hmm. Maybe they could be either shifting the blame to insurgents, or pawns of another incorporate. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 6:14 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? In a message dated 11/10/99 9:44:48 AM Central Standard Time, MCzaplinski@npr.org writes: << unless they were outfitted with special suits, which would also be an impediment to 'mixed media' (as it were) operations. >> Perhaps here is the solution...while on a biped ship you have two seperate areas one for control and the other for Life support...what if they were combined? Example a water tank that used Movement sensors to VR pilot the craft? The 3d experience of a Cetacean would be superior to a humans...Also if the software that translates the signals to movement is sophisticated enough, the ship might be able to make both subtle and massive course changes in an extremely beautiful and elegant manner...as for the software sophistication argument, I have no problem with that at all....ever watched the animation software from ILM? I have seen it on several "the making of" type features...this software (and hardware) is pretty common and fairly sophisticated NOW...Give us some time...The best part is the inside of this "coffin Control" system could use some video interface so that the Cetacean pilot could flip between interior ship view and a HUD overlayed visual of the exterior environment....giving them the "swimming through space" experience. For those of you who have a problem with the movement sensor idea...how about good ol' fashioned Direct Neural Interface (DNI)? That way no hesitation or lag between sensory input and ship interface reaction...Does that sound feasible? The thought of dolphin controlled Fast Interceptors and Orca Controlled Gunships flying through space with a grace and control that few humans (who lack millions of years of intuitive 3d instinct) could hope to rival, Now thats frighteningly cool! Look out hairless apes...space flight has a new sheriff in town.... "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:53 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line Brian Betty said: >But let me stress that I'm only hoping for a little art. Maybe you BPers >could make a support booklet like what's been suggested in this and other >threads that has pics, or maybe you could get a couple pics posted on the >BP page. Or a special edition of Undercurrents with BP art? I really doubt much new art would go into Undercurrents. It costs so much to get good art that you'd want to use it for products that make back the money. Hey Jeff, who did the Hanging Joe art for the new UC? I noticed that none of the usual artist suspects were in the credits for UC 5/6... >We only got Darwins on Realearth and they don't have elastin-reinforced >blubber, only droopy chub. Give me elastin, or give me death! And what do >resealable nostrils look like - do Divers have flat and low noses? Good point. While Blair Reynolds' renderings of the native woman in the main rulebook seemed to lean more towards "normal" human shapes, I think that might have been for aesthetics rather than anything else. >Next on the list: BP action figures! Man-eating Bataku! Pokerfaced lawmen! >Savage tribesmen! Horny dolphins!. :) Brian, were you around on the list when we had the discussion about the dolphin crack whore player character in my old OSU campaign? Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 7:56 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? Jason wrote: > Ah. Yes. Good point. I really should have thought >of that before I started. Maybe I'm just in the wrong frame >of mind. I was starting to get a picture of a 'fin in a >rocket powered flying harness for a minute there. Ha ha ha, but so what if dolphin spacers are less than likely? The very concept sounds cool enough that I might have one as an NPC in the near future. :) >"Look! Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a Plane? Hang >on... a fish?!?" Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:03 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - CWTh & stuffed orca references Brian Betty sez: >Jason noted, "I really hadn't realised that there are people that *have* >to physically hold their noses when underwater though." > >My sister, for one. Me too, if I flip upside down while swimming, I get two sinuses full of water. Ugh. >"Actually the one I was thinking of was in Natural Law, but I probably >shouldn't elaborate any further without spoiler warnings. Still, I'm sure a >few dolphin and orca dolls could help as props for a game." BTW, the orca doll mention was not in the UC article about Bataku (the one with the infamous picture), it was in the Greg Benage short story in the Cetaceans section of the main rulebook. One of Bataku's victims was holding one when he torpedoed the undersea base... Kai Poh As a kid, slept with a 4 foot dolphin doll from Taiwan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Kintaro Oe [kabael@bu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:04 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - ocean pictures here's a link I found today with great pictures of the aquatic world. >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:41:31 -0500 (EST) >From: Derek Guder >To: Derek Guder >X-Status: > >http://www.sanctuaries.nos.noaa.gov/pgallery/pgallery.html > > > kabael kabael@bu.edu ICQ #24193592 "See this watch she gave me? Well it still ticks away." -eels, The Medication Is Wearing Off my friends and my creations: http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins/ the Thirteenth Legion: http://come.to/dvie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:20 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RBP product line In a message dated 11/10/99 8:03:27 PM Central Standard Time, t_poh@hotmail.com writes: << Brian, were you around on the list when we had the discussion about the dolphin crack whore player character in my old OSU campaign? >> I wasn't on the list then, but this is a story that begs to be retold...LOL "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:22 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - CWTh & stuffed orca references In a message dated 11/10/99 8:05:30 PM Central Standard Time, t_poh@hotmail.com writes: << As a kid, slept with a 4 foot dolphin doll from Taiwan >> hmmm...this suggests something about his attraction to the BP RPG...dont let Freudians get ahold of this info! "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:19 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? In a message dated 11/10/99 8:00:40 PM Central Standard Time, t_poh@hotmail.com writes: << >"Look! Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a Plane? Hang >on... a fish?!?" >> of course...neither dolphins nor Orcas are really fish...both are mammals "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 8:26 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Incorp Special Forces David Chart mused: >Hmmm... I wonder if there's some has-been corp in 2199 that's renowned for >its Special Ops division. Say, one that specialised in food production, and >is still called something like General Foods (but not that exactly), but >which now makes most of its money hiring out 'security specialists'. That would be a neat thing to have in a game... For the climax of my OSU Hurricane Season campaign, I ran the PCs up against Biogene's crack black ops commandos, the legendary (and much-feared) GHOST 24 unit. It consisted of 24 highly modified (myo-skeletal, accel neurons, sensory mods and more), highly trained (gave them GEO Shock Trooper skill packages) operatives. The players got a bit of luck and some outside help, though, and by the time they were through the commandoes had to call themselves GHOST 6... Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 10:15 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? Gareth Hanrahan wrote: > > How about a "navigation deck" which is flooded? One section of the ship is > dedicated to fins. I guess it would depend on just how good the fins are > at piloting,and whther it's worth having them on board. Too much mass. Better would be a warm room kept at 90+% humidity. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason A Werner [c577200@showme.missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 9:19 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Diver/Squid ear structures For those of you with no interest in human physiology, delete this message, otherwise... The human brain has this nifty way of determining where a sound is coming from. In its very simplest version, it goes like this. A sound is generated somewhere out in space. Since the two ears are not precisely the same distance away from the sound, the wavefront will arrive at the two ears at nearly but not exactly the same time. When an ear is stimulated, it begins to sequentially "trip" the first in a series of neural nuclei. When the other ear is stimulated, it begins "tripping" nuclei from the other end of the series. Depending on the angle at which the sound is produced with respect to the axis of the head, the difference in time between the two ears will vary, which will in turn vary which nucleus in the chain gets stimulated by both sides at the same time. If the ears are stimulate at the same time (i.e. the sound is directly in front or behind the head), then the middle nucleus recieves both stimuli simultaneously. If the sound is at 90 degrees to the head (i.e. next to one ear and across the head from the other) then the stimulated nucleus will be the furthest possible from the center of the chain. The brain recognizes which nucleus is stimulated and abstracts from that where the sound must be in space. Because water is about 800 times more dense than air at sea level, the speed of sound is much greater in water than in air. Since the locating system is dependent on the time lag from one ear to the other, the increased speed of sound mucks this all up, and you're left with a human who's terrible at locating sound under water. Next time you have the opportunity to stick your head under water, bonk a rock against something or make some other noise outside yourself. You should hear it as if it's comming from all around you... The second mechanism is easier, but less precise. If the sound is not directly in front or behind the head, one ear will be in a sort of "sound shadow" from the head. This will result in a volume differential, which again helps to localize the sound in space. Probably way more information that you wanted. -- -Jason Werner Biohazard Games ------------------------------------------------ I lacked the courage to investigate the weaknesses of the wicked, because I discovered they are the same as the weaknesses of the saintly. - Wm. of Baskerville -------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Auberon [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:41 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins? EndersWAR1@aol.com wrote: > > feasible? The thought of dolphin controlled Fast Interceptors and Orca > Controlled Gunships flying through space with a grace and control that few > humans (who lack millions of years of intuitive 3d instinct) could hope to > rival, Now thats frighteningly cool! Look out hairless apes...space flight > has a new sheriff in town.... Except that most space stuff is large bulk haulers cruising around, not Star Wars-esque space battles. For the most part the pilots will tell the computer where to go, the computer will pull up hazard reports, check the orbits of known asteroids, and plot a course, which it will then adjust based on addtional hazard reports and lidar checking of it's flight path. If anything shows up on lidar, its course and speed will be plotted, the ship's course adjusted to give it a certain clearance, and a hazard report filed. Not much fun, but realistic and efficient. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.