From:	Atti2dboy@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:02 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] -Packages


In a message dated 11/12/99 7:37:24 PM, EndersWAR1@aol.com writes:

><< However, would Hackers be classified with the Crime or the Science
> professions? I say Crime. >>
>I tend to agree...
>
>Yeah thats how I had it figured, although I had a reasonable argument for
>both Crime and Law Enforcement, too...Depending largely on how he used his 
>skills and who for...

Although a Hacker is very Science and Technology oriented, by the very act
of labeling herself a Hacker she is admitting to the intrusive criminal
nature of her profession. There could be a Military version though ...    } : 
)

><<Cleaners would probably be a specialized Covert Operative (Victor
>the Cleaner from La Femmé Nikita, or Point of No Return if you are
>deprived).>>
>Thats makes sense too... want to start brainstorming these packages for the 
>next Undercurrents?

Sure. If I can't play I might as well create.
Shall we take this outside to preserve the surprise?

=Rich
"Meandering to a different drummer."
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From:	Atti2dboy@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:54 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] -Packages


In a message dated 11/12/99 7:32:56 PM, EndersWAR1@aol.com writes:

>Seen both...Le Femme wins hands down, unless your talking about the stupid 
TV 
>show that kills the Film

The movie. I avoid the TV show. To tie this in with another current thread,
Jean Reno is excellent as Victor the Cleaner. Of course, Harvey Keitel as
Victor in PoNR was the best thing about that remake. "This one isn't dead."

Reno in The Professional (Originally titled Léon) is my favorite example of
a skilled and cunning warrior. He'd eat a Marshall for breakfast.

As a minor adventure (if you want to take your PC's down a few pegs, or legs)
you could have the PC's cross paths with a quiet, unassuming man with haunted
eyes. Just don't anger him ...  : )

=Rich
"Meandering to a different drummer."
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From:	Atti2dboy@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:39 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A World of Hurt


In a message dated 11/12/99 7:32:10 PM, EndersWAR1@aol.com writes:

><< "Guns! Guns! When do we get the guns?!" Tacklberry, Police Academy.
>>>
>I'll one-up you on that... "I need a Bigger gun!"-Rutger Hauer, Split Second

Fine.
"We're going to need bigger guns, and more chocolate."-Dick Durkin,
Stone's (Rutger Hauer) partner.   :)

=Rich
"Meandering to a different drummer."
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:33 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] -Packages

In a message dated 11/12/99 9:30:57 PM Central Standard Time, 
Atti2dboy@aol.com writes:

<< However, would Hackers be classified with the Crime or the Science
 professions? I say Crime. >>
I tend to agree...

<<Bodyguards would probably be in Colonization and Commerce. The
characters  may once have been in the Military or Law Enforcement,
but they are not now. Think of them as Guides for civilization.>>
Yeah thats how I had it figured, although I had a reasonable argument for 
both Crime and Law Enforcement, too...Depending largely on how he used his 
skills and who for...

<<Cleaners would probably be a specialized Covert Operative (Victor
the Cleaner from La Femmé Nikita, or Point of No Return if you are
deprived).>>
Thats makes sense too... want to start brainstorming these packages for the 
next Undercurrents?

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:28 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A World of Hurt

In a message dated 11/12/99 9:30:52 PM Central Standard Time, 
Atti2dboy@aol.com writes:

<< "Guns! Guns! When do we get the guns?!" Tacklberry, Police Academy. >>
I'll one-up you on that... "I need a Bigger gun!"-Rutger Hauer, Split Second

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:30 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] -Packages

In a message dated 11/12/99 9:30:57 PM Central Standard Time, 
Atti2dboy@aol.com writes:

<< (Victor
 the Cleaner from La Femmé Nikita, or Point of No Return if you are
 deprived). >>
Seen both...Le Femme wins hands down, unless your talking about the stupid TV 
show that kills the Film

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:21 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Kentucky (was: Stereotypes)

In a message dated 11/12/99 4:32:22 PM Central Standard Time, 
araglan@us.ibm.com writes:

<< I hail from those parts... I'm from Kentucky. Jeff Foxworthy was funnier
 after I moved to Tennessee. >>
I was too young to remember much the last time I was in Tenessee...but I was 
in Kentucky a few years ago and was frightened by one particular thing....The 
whole town revolved around a Walmart... a few weeks after I got back I saw a 
friend of mines JF calander, and the joke of the day was "you might be a 
redneck if your town is Walmart.... I almost laughed myself into a coma

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	Nelson Lamoureux [haver@sympatico.ca]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:50 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

Jim wrote:
> Not an easy language to learn.  Primarily because (only my opinion) they
> don't use the Roman alphabet.  The Cyrillic alphabet has something like 28
> or 32 letters.  All those extras seem to get in the way (at least when I was
> trying to learn it).  It is an interesting language though.  Doesn't have
> the same sense of time Latin based languages do.
>
> A friend of mine learned it in college.  He reasoned that it was easy to
> find places to learn French or Spanish or German but if he wanted to learn
> Russian it would be *much* more difficult after college.  Another friend's
> wife spent a year in Moscow.

I just had to answer here. OK, I admit, I'm a little sensitive when language
issue start appearing. And it's not because I live in Quebec B-{)}

First, lets be honest, there is no such thing as an easy language to learn.
Nor is there any difficult language either. The only thing we can assert for
sure is that languages which are part of the same familly of languages as
your own will be somewhat easier to learn IN THE BEGINING, simply because
the vocabulary will be similar. But that's about it.

In fact, saying that such and such language is more "complex", more
difficult than another necessarely implies that it will take more time for
children to learn it in the first place, which is something we know is not
true: all the children all over the world learn to speak their mother tongue
at about the same age (between 1 1/2 to 3 years old).

What do I mean by saying that a language will be easier if its in the same
familly? Well, for example, I speak french: it's my mother tongue. French is
a roman language that comes from latin, as are italian and spanish. It
should be MARGINALY easier for me to learn these tongues than it would be to
learn most others. As it should be easier for a german to learn english than
to learn italian (german and english both being germanic tongues).

Regarding the written aspect of languages, it should be considered secondary
since these systems are always designed after the oral aspect in order to
help keep traces of what was "said". What is important in the begining is
how to speak, not how to write or read.

just my 2 cents.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nelson Lamoureux
haver@sympatico.ca
ArM Code 1.2 4+ R+ H+ SG++ G++ Y10 C-- FZ-- P+ HoH(B F+ Q) CD
------------------
«Il y a des gens qui parlent
 jusqu'à ce qu'ils aient
 quelque chose à dire.»
    Guitry
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From:	Atti2dboy@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:26 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] -Packages


In a message dated 11/12/99 12:49:58 PM, EndersWAR1@aol.com writes:

>Has anyone come up with packages for Hackers, BodyGuards, Cleaners("we're in 
>dirty water! Call the Cleaner!" or for those Pulp Fiction Fans "Your sending
>the Wolf? Shit, thats all you had to say!") or Arceologists?

Not yet.  ;)

However, would Hackers be classified with the Crime or the Science
professions? I say Crime.
Bodyguards would probably be in Colonization and Commerce. The
characters  may once have been in the Military or Law Enforcement,
but they are not now. Think of them as Guides for civilization.
Cleaners would probably be a specialized Covert Operative (Victor
the Cleaner from La Femmé Nikita, or Point of No Return if you are
deprived).
As for an Archeologist, the Scholar fits that description rather
nicely (base of 60 in the Human Sciences Skill Group).

=Rich
"Meandering to a different drummer."
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From:	Atti2dboy@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:26 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - General Foods Commandos


David wrote:

>Say, one that specialised in food production, and
>is still called something like General Foods (but not that exactly), but
>which now makes most of its money hiring out 'security specialists'.

How about the Kansas Farmers' Cooperative (KFC)? They have all those
out-of-work young farm boys after The Blight.
Their motto: "We do kickin' right."   : )

=Rich
"Meandering to a different drummer."
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From:	Atti2dboy@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:26 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - A World of Hurt


In a message dated 11/11/99 8:25:20 AM, MCzaplinski@npr.org writes:

>FWIW:  my most 'ideal' release ord for the next few supps would be:
>
>   FLUID MECHANICS (Thankfully, this is already scheduled next)

Oh yes, oh yes! Can not wait.  :)

=Rich
"Guns! Guns! When do we get the guns?!" Tacklberry, Police Academy.
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From:	Brian S Holt [holtbs@bellsouth.net]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 7:26 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Kentucky (was: Stereotypes)

Those of us who live in Kentucky could take offense at that statement. :)
Unfortunately, that stereotype has some basis the further east in Kentucky
that you go.  If you ever see Kentucky on television (other than the
Kentucky Derby), you are most likely seeing Eastern Kentucky.  There is some
requirement in movies that the most backwoods areas are the only ones that
can be shown on film.  Steven Seagal's "Fire Down Below" is a good example.

Brian "Gotta go watch the moonshine still" Holt

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Brian Betty
Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 3:50 PM
To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Kentucky (was: Stereotypes)

Enderswar wrote: "Try Kentucky...where all the Jeff Foxworthy jokes are
truisms..."

I'd say rather, "Try Kentucky ... where Jeff Foxworthy jokes make sense to
the hearer." I only appreciate JF because my aforementioned grandfather
hails from those parts.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Chris Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 5:49 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	RE: RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Landsrechts (was "Flame the newbie!")


>Take a good look at Sammo Hung.
>
>Then watch one of his movies or his tv show.
         But if you do watch the TV show, do yourself a favor and turn the 
volume off ^_^.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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From:	Chris Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 5:51 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)


>I suspect this had more to do with the *source* of the proposal and the
>immanent elections than the treaty itself.  American politicians are
>notoriously short sighted.  But then why should they be different from other
>American "executives"?  Most American businesses plan for the next quarter
>or two.  Whereas Japanese (for example) businesses often plan for the next
>decade.
         That's just not true (the bit about business and why the Japanese 
are better than we are, which also isn't true).  As for congress, yes - 
they do tend to be short-sighted, but that's a problem with the system as 
well, they have to get re-elected every 4 or 6 years (depending on what 
house) so they have to have lots of concrete things to show their 
constituents in that time.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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From:	Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16+@pitt.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 4:50 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

Follow Up Flag:	Reply?
Flag Status:	Flagged

>It seems that the countries most open to nuclear proliferation ALSO do not
possess nuclear weapons. Like Iraq, Iran, North Korea. How nice to know that
Senate took their side this time, instead of the 154 other countries who
voted against.<

The Senate took the side of the American people. It's the responsibility of
the US government to ensure national security, and it does the country no
good to dismantle its arsenal in an era of nuclear proliferation. If we are
to discourage the use of WMDs in the next century, the US will have to
demonstrate both the capability and the will to destroy any nation or
organization that resorts to NBC warfare. We cannot do this with an anemic
arsenal of deteriorating warheads.

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From:	araglan@us.ibm.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 4:28 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Kentucky (was: Stereotypes)

I hail from those parts... I'm from Kentucky. Jeff Foxworthy was funnier
after I moved to Tennessee.

Andrew Ragland
IFS Helpdesk Technical Writer, Trainer
All destinations are final. If you haven't gotten to where you're going,
you're not there yet.  --  George Carlin


Brian Betty <bbetty@glad.org> on 11/12/99 03:50:09 PM

Please respond to blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com

To:   blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
cc:
Subject:  [BLUE PLANET] - Kentucky (was: Stereotypes)




Enderswar wrote: "Try Kentucky...where all the Jeff Foxworthy jokes are
truisms..."

I'd say rather, "Try Kentucky ... where Jeff Foxworthy jokes make sense to
the hearer." I only appreciate JF because my aforementioned grandfather
hails from those parts.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:53 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Walroosessses.

Gar: "That was without a doubt the most useless piece of information I have
ever seen."

I try, I really do.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:52 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Belukhy

"Mind you one of the other guys will probably correct me if I'm wrong but
IIRC bottlenose dolphins (and several close relatives) and orcas were the
only cetaceans to survive long enough to be genlifted.  All other species
were extinct by then."

How sad. But that don't mean you can't run a rebel campaign. Maybe there
was a "Star Trek IV" effect in effect. Or maybe we just smartened up *just
enough* to prevent wholesale cetacean die-off. IMHO that's the hardest part
of the game for me because it's so close to the truth ... it makes me sad lah.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:50 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Kentucky (was: Stereotypes)

Enderswar wrote: "Try Kentucky...where all the Jeff Foxworthy jokes are
truisms..."

I'd say rather, "Try Kentucky ... where Jeff Foxworthy jokes make sense to
the hearer." I only appreciate JF because my aforementioned grandfather
hails from those parts.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:47 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins?

Jim wrote: "As for a deck or enclosure filled with water for fins.
Remember how heavy water is."

My issue is rather the opposite: imagine several tons of water weightless.
What a pain for a delphinoid / whale to try and breathe in!

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:46 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] -Packages 

Has anyone come up with packages for Hackers, BodyGuards, Cleaners("we're in 
dirty water! Call the Cleaner!" or for those Pulp Fiction Fans "Your sending 
the Wolf? Shit, thats all you had to say!") or Arceologists?

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:39 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

In a message dated 11/12/99 2:16:11 PM Central Standard Time, 
jskln1@uas.alaska.edu writes:

<< Which is, in fact, my major gripe about Americans; as a whole, we never
 seem to realize that not everything is good or evil, but in fact 99+% of
 things that ever will go on are firmly grey. >>
You and I are in complete agreement....

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:34 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stuffed Orca Doll

In a message dated 11/12/99 9:53:10 AM Central Standard Time, 
araglan@us.ibm.com writes:

<< For what
 it's worth, the dolphin show demonstrates a level of trust and friendliness
 between the fins and the trainers that indicates (to me at least) excellent
 treatment of the fins by the humans. >>
I go there at least once a year, as its only about 45 minutes away..and they 
do have some great facilities....second (perhaps) to the very natural 
habatat-looking facilities they have at the Shedd Aqaurium....the dolpins 
there really seem to love their trainers.....and in at least one case, that 
love is returned...one of the trainers told me he was saved from a shark by a 
dolphin several years ago....


"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:28 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

In a message dated 11/12/99 2:38:28 PM Central Standard Time, 
t_poh@hotmail.com writes:

<< Okay, I give ya this: the US is big and rich. Of course you're going get 
 _some_ shit no matter what you do. But hey, if you guys really don't want 
 your vote in the General Council, can I have it? ;) >>
I personally agree to some extent...Frankly, I think the ability to wipe out 
the entire surface of the planet 200 times might be excessive.....I'm not 
sure who it was in our government who said "I could sleep alot better if we 
had just one more ICBM...."  I think that nuclear reduction is a great 
idea...and I think its silly that our government made that abortion argument, 
since a large portion of the US is Pro choice....not to mention the SHEER 
idiocy of attaching one thing to the other...which makes us come out sounding 
like this "If you people dont stop killing infants, we'll nuke them till they 
glow......" 
    I will take this opportunity to say this:  I am a patriot. I love 
America, I am proud to say I am an American and I have nothing but the 
highest respect for the men who have died for my freedom and for those who 
defend us today...however, I am not blind and I dont agree with alot of the 
things my government does... however, that is the basis for our government 
freedom of speech, the right to disagree...So all I can do is make my voice 
by telling people my ideas and hoping that if the idea has merit, people will 
listen...and I also  exercise another of my rights...I vote to get the idiots 
out of office....
    Just my two scrip on this whole governmental thing..
Glen

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:16 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

In a message dated 11/12/99 1:45:26 PM Central Standard Time, 
rpsst16+@pitt.edu writes:

<< Well, many Americans believe we do most of the UN's musclework and get
 dumped on by half the planet as a result. Would you pay for that kind of
 enmity? >>
Thats the sentiment I get...or maybe we are just learning from all the third 
world countries that borrow money from our banks, default on the loans then 
ask for more....The average American is not all that fiscally responsible for 
that matter....I agree that Clinton is a slimeball... What I can't believe is 
that after all the crap that has come out about him he still has this 
approval rating....Which kills me because I can't find anyone who will admit 
to  having voted for him.....I guess as a self appointed spokesman for the 
stupid american masses, I would have to say that I think we are so busy 
trying to make everyone like our ideaology that we inadvertently piss people 
off...I think, for the most part, the average american just wants to 
help....maybe we would be better off going back to isolationist beliefs...but 
in the past that hasnt worked...Pearl Harbor comes to mind...

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:07 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

In a message dated 11/12/99 9:26:20 AM Central Standard Time, bbetty@glad.org 
writes:

<< I don't visit my cousins in Massachusetts too often, either ... >>
Try Kentucky...where all the Jeff Foxworthy jokes are truisms...

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:04 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

In a message dated 11/12/99 8:37:39 AM Central Standard Time, 
banzai@missouri.edu writes:

<< I bet we'd speak Russian instead.
  >>
My money would have been on that crazy sonofabitch Patton....

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 3:04 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tun Kai Poh [mailto:t_poh@hotmail.com]
> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction &
> Insurgency)
> 
<snip>
> It seems that the countries most open to nuclear 
> proliferation ALSO do not possess nuclear weapons. 
> Like Iraq, Iran, North Korea. How nice to know that 
> Senate took their side this time, instead of the 154 other 
> countries who voted against.
> 
I suspect this had more to do with the *source* of the proposal and the
immanent elections than the treaty itself.  American politicians are
notoriously short sighted.  But then why should they be different from other
American "executives"?  Most American businesses plan for the next quarter
or two.  Whereas Japanese (for example) businesses often plan for the next
decade. 

Jim

Jim Heivilin, Project Manager 
Systems & Applications Group, IAT Services
University of Missouri at Columbia 
mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:56 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Walroosessses.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gareth Hanrahan [mailto:hanrahag@iol.ie]
> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Walroosessses.
> 
> That was without a doubt the most useless piece of 
> information I have ever seen.
> Gar
>
You haven't been around here long, have you? *raised eyebrows*

Jim "font of mostly useless trivia"
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:54 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency
> 
<snip>
> 	I'd quite like to learn Russian. Unfortunately 
> there don't seem to be any appropriate teachers around 
> here. Still, enough of this discussion before it annoys 
> anyone. I'll shut up now.
> 
Not an easy language to learn.  Primarily because (only my opinion) they
don't use the Roman alphabet.  The Cyrillic alphabet has something like 28
or 32 letters.  All those extras seem to get in the way (at least when I was
trying to learn it).  It is an interesting language though.  Doesn't have
the same sense of time Latin based languages do.  

A friend of mine learned it in college.  He reasoned that it was easy to
find places to learn French or Spanish or German but if he wanted to learn
Russian it would be *much* more difficult after college.  Another friend's
wife spent a year in Moscow.  

Jim "I had a Russian girlfriend for awhile, does that count?"
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:49 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Stuffed Orca Doll

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Czaplinski [mailto:MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG]
> Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Stuffed Orca Doll
> 
<snip>
> Which reminds me:  was the Beluga a candidate for uplift?  It
> seemed to me that they were just as intelligent as Orcas or
> Dolphins, and would be an interesting character type, since
> they are mid-way in size between the two other cetacean 
> species.
> 
Mind you one of the other guys will probably correct me if I'm wrong but
IIRC bottlenose dolphins (and several close relatives) and orcas were the
only cetaceans to survive long enough to be genlifted.  All other species
were extinct by then. 

Jim

Jim Heivilin
Webmaster, Biohazard Games 
http://www.biohazardgames.com
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:50 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Landsrechts (was "Flame the newbie!")

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Landsrechts (was "Flame the
> newbie!")
> 
<snip>
> thing. In his own words: "The guy looked like freaking 
> Dilbert! If you passed him in the street you would probably 
> be tempted to puch him out of your way!"
> 
Take a good look at Sammo Hung. 

Then watch one of his movies or his tv show.  

Jim

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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:41 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - RGR 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heivilin, Jim [mailto:banzai@missouri.edu]
> Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - RGR 
> 
<snip>
> Ghurkas, the RMBS
               ^^^^

I was referring to the RM SBS here but their name had escaped me. 

Jim
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From:	Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:35 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

Robert said:
>It seems the countries most open to nuclear disarmament are those which do
>not possess nuclear weapons.

It seems that the countries most open to nuclear proliferation ALSO do not 
possess nuclear weapons. Like Iraq, Iran, North Korea. How nice to know that 
Senate took their side this time, instead of the 154 other countries who 
voted against.

>Many people in the US, France, Britain, Russia,
>India, Pakistan, China, Israel, and so on, would take issue with your
>statement. That is not an inconsequential portion of the global population.

The leaders of France and Great Britain seemed to take issue with the 
rejection of the treaty's ratification. I believe it had something to do 
with sabotaging the moral high ground the nuke club would like to have so 
that they can stop the proliferation of nuclear arms. I think the US was in 
the minority on this vote.

>Well, many Americans believe we do most of the UN's musclework and get
>dumped on by half the planet as a result. Would you pay for that kind of
>enmity?

Okay, I give ya this: the US is big and rich. Of course you're going get 
_some_ shit no matter what you do. But hey, if you guys really don't want 
your vote in the General Council, can I have it? ;)

Kai Poh
Malaysian Lagomorph

______________________________________________________
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:33 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency
> 
<snip>
> 	Are you serious? You know there are places in 
> France where a bottle of Coke will cost you 50 dollars just 
> because it's from the USA and they don't really want people 
> to buy it. And you wouldn't believe the resentment some of 
> them have for your intervention in WW2!
> 
On the other hand I've seen the monument they (the French) erected at
Malmedy.  

And when I visited France everyone was more than polite/helpful/kind.  

Well, except for the border guard.  But then it was 2am in the middle of a
blizzard and he had to work so I can understand that.  <g>

Jim
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:31 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Ghurkas and BP

> -----Original Message-----
> From: paulw@betanet.co.uk [mailto:paulw@betanet.co.uk]
> Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Ghurkas and BP
> 
<snip>
> trained, as are the Israelis of course. Did you hear 
> yesterday that two of the 10 US Army Divisions have 
> been rated "C-4", which is apparently along
> the lines of "bloody useless when it comes to combat efficiency"? 
> 
Unless the system has changed drastically in the last few years the letter
rating pertains to equipment and it's maintenance status and ranges from A
to F with D and lower usually used for reserve and national guard units (who
usually get older equipment and have less time to keep it maintained).  The
numbers pertain to training status and again range from 1 to 5 or 6.  

The RDF (Rapid Deployment Force, which might have now been replaced) will
probably have a rating something like A (or B) - 1 (or 2).  Meaning they can
deploy to anywhere in the world within 24 hours (not the entire force mind
you but at least one or two battalions).  There are also probably two
divisions with much higher ratings (close to the RDF).  101st Airborne.
10th Mountain.  82nd Airborne.  1st Cav.  

Having been on the inside I can understand where it's coming from.  

Jim

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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:24 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Ghurkas and BP

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Czaplinski [mailto:MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG]
> Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Ghurkas and BP
> 
<snip>
> Isn't Ghurka Supertrooper a redundant term, kinda like
> 'Brutal Dictator' or 'Bad Pauly Shore movie'?
> 
> After all, *SOMEONE* had to train the first batch of Supertroopers,
> and as patriotic an American as I am, I just have to think that
> the natural choice would be guys that SEALs live in fear of.
> 
Were *I* to create a new unit of ultra elite forces I would take my training
cadre from; 

1) US Army Special Forces (probably the Delta Force)
2) US Navy SEALS
3) US Air Force Air Commandos
4) RA (Royal Army) SAS 
5) RA RGR (Royal Ghurka Regiment)
6) RN Marines (SBS - Special Boat Squadron - the Royal Navy equivalent of
the SEALS)
7) BW (Bundeswehr) GSG9 (forget off hand what the gsg stands for, it means
border patrol squadron)
8) Russian Spetnaz (now THESE guys ...)
9) hmmm, I know the French Army has an elite force by I can't remember their
name now
10) French Foreign Legion
11) IIRC the South Koreans have an elite force
12) Australian SAS
...

An assortment of other nation's elite forces.  Almost every country has an
elite force of some sort.  IIRC I heard something impressive about a Danish
special operations unit taking a terrorist held airliner quite a few years
ago.  

Jim
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From:	Auberon [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:16 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A World of Hurt

"Robert P. Stefko" wrote:
> 
> >Well, in the 'To Each Their Own' department, I must say that WOH was the
> *least* anticipated of the BP upcomings, on the basis that there are TONS of
> other 'dark future'/neo-cyberpunk RPG's on the market that deal with a
> destroyed or mangled Earth, whereas there is only one POSEIDON.<
> 
> <delurk> Well, I look forward to seeing how Biohazard handles a balkanized,
> xenophobic Earth with early nanotech and a developing schism between rival
> world governments (UN and GEO). <delurk>

Hear, hear!

I'm also assuming that there's a clever plan to the release schedule,
where everything builds in some fashion.  I personally would like to see
A World of Hurt before Wormhole, because I need to know where I'm coming
from before I can know where I'm going.
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:15 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Ghurkas and BP

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BIOHZD@aol.com [mailto:BIOHZD@aol.com]
> Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Ghurkas and BP
> 
<snip>
> Jeff "I have a Kukri on display in my living room" Barber
> Biohazard Games
> 
What he doesn't say is that it's right next to a replica of Conan's Sword
(from the 1st movie) [the Sword of Power] and a replica of an 18th century
Rapier [the Sword of Grace] (among other assorted bladed weapons). <g>

I was reading yesterday in the online Encyclopedia Britannica yesterday and
it seems the kukri knives were named after a certain venomous snake (the
blade resembles the snake's teeth) of the region (Nepal).  

Jim

Jim Heivilin, Project Manager 
Systems & Applications Group, IAT Services
University of Missouri at Columbia 
mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898
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From:	Auberon [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:13 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

Jerome Darmont wrote:
> 
> ><< And you wouldn't believe the resentment some of
> > them have for your intervention in WW2! >>
> 
>  Please don't start a flamewar with what's following.
> 
>  We *are* grateful. But let's face it, the US came to our help because it
> served their interest.

Absolutely.  And if the roles had been reversed, the French would have
done the same thing.  The only motivator that can be depended on in
humanity is self interest.  Usually unenlightened.

> >Like I just said....they'd all still be speaking German....
> 
>  I bet we'd speak Russian instead.

Then you would have had to put up with Uncle Joe too.  *shudder*

>  Nothing is just black or white.

Which is, in fact, my major gripe about Americans; as a whole, we never
seem to realize that not everything is good or evil, but in fact 99+% of
things that ever will go on are firmly grey.
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:07 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Incorp Special Forces

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tun Kai Poh [mailto:t_poh@hotmail.com]
> Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Incorp Special Forces
> 
<snip>
> For the climax of my OSU Hurricane Season campaign, I ran the 
> PCs up against Biogene's crack black ops commandos, the 
> legendary (and much-feared) GHOST 24 unit. It consisted of 
>
Surely this is an acronym?  What's it stand for?

Jim

Jim Heivilin, Project Manager 
Systems & Applications Group, IAT Services
University of Missouri at Columbia 
mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:03 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Sakal [mailto:c_sakal@yahoo.com]
> Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins?
> 
<snip>
> much more vulnerabl;e to mishap than an air-filled
> area.  Probably best to leave that sort of thing to
> the air-breathers
> 
*ahem*
Dolphins ARE air breathers. <g>
<ducks>

Jim

Jim Heivilin, Project Manager 
Systems & Applications Group, IAT Services
University of Missouri at Columbia 
mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 2:02 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Auberon [mailto:jskln1@uas.alaska.edu]
> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Frozen Dolphins?
> 
<snip>
> Actually, my major question about 'fin spacers is whether 
> it'd happen - you still have weight underwater, and an 
> orientation on an up-down axis. They're more familiar 
> with 3-D movement, but would they be comfortable
> with weightlessness?  (Biohazard Guys?)
> 
IIRC NASA weightlessness training is still done underwater for the most
part.  While you can't truly reproduce the feel of weightlessness, you can
use neutral buoyancy to simulate it.  

As for a deck or enclosure filled with water for fins.  Remember how heavy
water is.  

Jim

Jim Heivilin, Project Manager 
Systems & Applications Group, IAT Services
University of Missouri at Columbia 
mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 1:59 PM
To:	'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] British Military

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Gribbon [mailto:c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk]
> Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] British Military
> 
<snip>
> I remember hearing a paraphrased quote from a Naval 
> Methodology-type book on submarines, where it was said
> "The navies of the world respect the American submarine 
> forces as being some of the best. 
> They fear the British..."
> 
Not long ago I read Tom Clancy's book "Submarine" and he had some
praiseworthy things to say about Royal Navy boat skippers.  Part of it is
probably (my guess) because they have so few submarines.  But IIRC their
command school graduation exercise involves defeating four destroyers.  Not
merely escaping but defeating (i.e.. sinking).  

Anyone whose done *any* reading on submarine warfare will realize what a
task that would be. 

Jim

Jim Heivilin, Project Manager 
Systems & Applications Group, IAT Services
University of Missouri at Columbia 
mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898
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From:	Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16+@pitt.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 1:45 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

>Clinton is, to me, a slimy bastard with too much power on his hands.  Then
there's the GOP-dominated Congress which wants to undermine nuclear treaties
for reasons the vast majority of sentient life cannot possibly agree with.<

It seems the countries most open to nuclear disarmament are those which do
not possess nuclear weapons. Many people in the US, France, Britain, Russia,
India, Pakistan, China, Israel, and so on, would take issue with your
statement. That is not an inconsequential portion of the global population.

>And withhold a billion dollars the US owes to the UN, partly because the
rest of the world doesn't share its views on abortion, and partly probably
because they're mean.<

Well, many Americans believe we do most of the UN's musclework and get
dumped on by half the planet as a result. Would you pay for that kind of
enmity?

>On a more game-related note, I'd be interested to see the World of Hurt
entry on the USA of 2199. Yeah, we got those tidbits in Undercurrents, but
that's hardly enough...<

Ditto.

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From:	Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 1:11 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Need advice. Hurray!

>	Well I've finally managed to get enough people
>interested for me to run a game. I just need to sort a time
>and place out. I have one question for the list members
>though. Roughly how long does Natural Law take to play?
>Considering people who have never seen the game before?

I haven't GMed it before (came close once) but I did play in Natural Law 
when Jeff ran it at Origins '98. And I've read it...in fine detail...many 
many times.

Assuming you fudge the rules a bit and don't insist on calculating all the 
math, especially in some parts of combat (such as the timing system which 
can be confusing to new players), not more than 4 hours.

SPOILER BELOW:
















If you're 3 hours into the game and the PCs haven't come across Junior yet, 
you'd best drop a clue or two into their path...maybe they come across a 
trinket from one of the dead scientists around the research base, and Junior 
appears out of nowhere to retrieve it. Whatever, but as long as you maneuver 
the PCs into a meeting with Junior by the beginning of Hour 3, and drop in 
the GenDiver guys not long after, you should be done in 4 hours.

Kai Poh

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From:	Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 12:56 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

Brian Betty reiterated:
>I wrote: "Incidentally, I've been all over Asia and consistent opinions on
>Americans are scary ... they think we are heavily armed, violent, rude,
>criminal people on one side and rich, kind, etc. on the other."

Speaking as an atypical Asian gamer, I think it's really the actions of a 
few bad apples that give the US its bad name.

Unfortunately, the bad apples of whom I speak are mostly in Congress and the 
White House...

Clinton is, to me, a slimy bastard with too much power on his hands.  Then 
there's the GOP-dominated Congress which wants to undermine nuclear treaties 
for reasons the vast majority of sentient life cannot possibly agree with. 
And withhold a billion dollars the US owes to the UN, partly because the 
rest of the world doesn't share its views on abortion, and partly probably 
because they're mean.

On a more game-related note, I'd be interested to see the World of Hurt 
entry on the USA of 2199. Yeah, we got those tidbits in Undercurrents, but 
that's hardly enough...

Kai Poh

______________________________________________________
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From:	Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 12:05 PM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Walroosessses.

That was without a doubt the most useless piece of information I have ever
seen.
Gar
On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, Brian Betty wrote:

> Andrew Ragland wrote: "walruses (walrusi?),"
> 
> Walri?
> 
> Actually, it just *looks* like it's Latin, it's actually a loanword from
> some Scandinavian language via Dutch. If I recall properly, Merriam-Webster
> notes it can be pluralised as 'walrus' or as 'walruses.' 
> 
> The first case is like moose, although I often say 'mooswuck' for its
> plural because that's what it should be. (The Algonquin animate plural is
> -ak, as in Cree "moosw, pl. mooswak." In Cree, the double o is /o:/, or an
> o said for twice as long as a regular o. This is what you get for growing
> up in Rhode Island - South East Algonquin on the brain.)
> 
> your personal & personable fount of useless knowledge,
>  -  Monkeygod (8-0)
> 
> My big secret
> is gonna hover over your life
> -Fionna Apple
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> with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.


> 
> 

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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:58 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Walroosessses.

Andrew Ragland wrote: "walruses (walrusi?),"

Walri?

Actually, it just *looks* like it's Latin, it's actually a loanword from
some Scandinavian language via Dutch. If I recall properly, Merriam-Webster
notes it can be pluralised as 'walrus' or as 'walruses.' 

The first case is like moose, although I often say 'mooswuck' for its
plural because that's what it should be. (The Algonquin animate plural is
-ak, as in Cree "moosw, pl. mooswak." In Cree, the double o is /o:/, or an
o said for twice as long as a regular o. This is what you get for growing
up in Rhode Island - South East Algonquin on the brain.)

your personal & personable fount of useless knowledge,
 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:49 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)


On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:22:26 -0500 Brian Betty 
<bbetty@glad.org> wrote:

> You should see what I think of the French ... I recall a recent poll on how
> often Europeans bathe, and I may never return to France. Of course, please
> note I don't visit my cousins in Massachusetts too often, either ...
> go, Southie!

	Ah, this is bollocks. I've seen endless surveys and 
so on each claiming that a country bathes less often than 
others. They almost always turn out to be utter rubbish or 
a matter of misrepresentation. There was a poll like this a 
while ago that was causing amusement so some people in 
England. It just turned out that French people owned less 
showers and took more baths than us or something.

Jason

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
     - Robert A. Heinlein


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From:	Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:47 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - RGR


On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:13:47 -0600 "Heivilin, Jim" 
<banzai@missouri.edu> wrote:

> > is a story I heard from the Falklands war that a well 
> > defended Argentine garrison (manned with perhaps a company or
> > two) surrendered to the Brits on the strength of the mere
> > rumor that a squad of Ghurkas was joining the siege on their
> > position, but who knows if that's really true.  What is
> >
> There were several interesting stories about the SAS, the Ghurkas, the RMBS
> and the Brigade of Guards to come out of the Falklands conflict.  Anyone
> have any books they recommend?  

	This probably isn't particularly helpful as I can't 
remember any names or titles, but I think there have been a 
few books about the Falklands written recently by ex 
military people. I seem to remember one causing some 
controversy by being a little too specific on some SAS 
practises. I'll see if I can find out more.

Jason

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
     - Robert A. Heinlein


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From:	Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:44 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency


On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:57:01 -0500 Michael Czaplinski 
<MCzaplinski@npr.org> wrote:

> > >Like I just said....they'd all still be speaking German....
> > 
> >  I bet we'd speak Russian instead.
> 
> I vote we all speak Esperanto!
> 
> KLAATU BARADA NIKTO!!

	Isn't it "Klaatu Herata Niktu" ? I'm sure I saw it 
written down somewhere a while ago.

Jason

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
     - Robert A. Heinlein


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From:	Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:32 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency


On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:31:14 -0600 "Heivilin, Jim" 
<banzai@missouri.edu> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:07:54 +0100
> To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
> From: Jerome Darmont <jerome.darmont@univ-lyon2.fr>
> Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency
> 
> At 11:24 11/11/99 -0500, EndersWAR1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> ><< And you wouldn't believe the resentment some of 
> > them have for your intervention in WW2! >>
> 
>  Please don't start a flamewar with what's following.
> 
>  We *are* grateful. But let's face it, the US came to our help because it
> served their interest.

	Well I knew there were a few of you on the list 
when I sent that. I didn't want to speak on your behalf so 
I tried to phrase it carefully. I really loved that story 
about the 50 dollar cans of coke though, and just had to 
share it.

> >Like I just said....they'd all still be speaking German....
> 
>  I bet we'd speak Russian instead.
> 
>  Nothing is just black or white.

	I'd quite like to learn Russian. Unfortunately 
there don't seem to be any appropriate teachers around 
here. Still, enough of this discussion before it annoys 
anyone. I'll shut up now.

Jason

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
     - Robert A. Heinlein


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From:	Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:21 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Need advice. Hurray!


	Well I've finally managed to get enough people 
interested for me to run a game. I just need to sort a time 
and place out. I have one question for the list members 
though. Roughly how long does Natural Law take to play? 
Considering people who have never seen the game before?

Jason

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
     - Robert A. Heinlein


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From:	Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 11:19 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Landsrechts (was "Flame the newbie!")


On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:27:31 -0600 "Heivilin, Jim" 
<banzai@missouri.edu> wrote:


> > 	Again though, I'd like to say that pretty much all 
> > this information is second hand. The only real link I have 
> > is that my grandfather was a member of the 9th Paras during 
> > WW2, the group that later went on to form the core of the 
> > SAS apparently. To me he seems a mild mannered gardening 
> > fanatic, but when my father was little he used to tell him 
> > some of the tricks they were taught for combat behind enemy 
> > lines. Let's just say these guys don't follow the Marquis 
> > de Queensbury's rules.
> > 
> The few men I've met and what I've read lead me to believe that most special
> operations types are generally viewed as mild mannered by most of us.  I
> actually met a man who had been in 23 SAS at a friends wedding years ago.
> Now he had some interesting stories.  Ask Jeff about the English teacher at
> the school where he teaches.  Another interesting man, though I suspect his
> most interesting stories are still classified.  

	Actually, the person I got most of this information 
from is on the SLA Industries mailing list (for those of 
you who know the game) and is an ex US Marine. One 
particular story I found amusing was when he was talking 
about a combat instructor that came out to teach them a few 
new things. I can't remember where the bloke came from, but 
apparently he took on a bunch (I think it was 10) of the 
normal instructors as a demonstration and he took them down 
in about 30 seconds. Even allowing for exageration this 
sounds impressive. The thing I liked most though, was that 
the person who posted all this was *really* annoyed by one 
thing. In his own words: "The guy looked like freaking 
Dilbert! If you passed him in the street you would probably 
be tempted to puch him out of your way!"

Jason

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
     - Robert A. Heinlein


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From:	Michael Czaplinski [MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:10 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - D. Crackus Whorus

> From: Brian Betty [mailto:bbetty@glad.org]
>
> Kai Poh asked, "Brian, were you around on the list when we had the
> discussion about the  dolphin crack whore player character in 
> my old OSU
> campaign?"
> 
> I *am* that crack whore. I type with beams of sound.

I don't know if this was pointed out at the time, but given the..
... ahem.... 'avuncular' nature of dolphin society (and of some
present-day dolphin/human interactions), a 'phin crack whore
rings almost too true.....

knowwhatImeannudgenudge....

MikeC, cross polinating with the Holy Grail Frenchman thread....
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From:	Michael Czaplinski [MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 10:08 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Stuffed Orca Doll

> From: araglan@us.ibm.com [mailto:araglan@us.ibm.com]

[snip re pregnant dolphins in Chicago]

>..............One of
> the fins apparently has a habit of swimming past the viewing 
> windows, and
> hanging her tongue out at the humans on the other side of the 
> glass. Fin
> humor or derision? You decide.

Sounds like the Beluga's at the Mystic aquarium:  we stopped
by there on our honeymoon back in '97, and though we only got
to see them in a temporary holding tank (owing to construction
of a HUGE facility to house them), they seemed to enjoy both
the physical caress of humans and occasionally squirting said
humans with water.

Which reminds me:  was the Beluga a candidate for uplift?  It
seemed to me that they were just as intelligent as Orcas or
Dolphins, and would be an interesting character type, since
they are mid-way in size between the two other cetacean 
species.

MikeC
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From:	araglan@us.ibm.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:46 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stuffed Orca Doll

However, the Brookfield Zoo in Chicago, which has a very nice dolphin
exhibit with a show currently curtailed because of pregnancy on the part of
two of the fins, has an entire shop full of dolphin stuff. I now have a
National Geographic Society bottlenose stuffie sitting atop my monitor.
This zoo also has penguins, seals, sea lions, otters, walruses (walrusi?),
and other aquatic mammals and birds. Quite well worth the trip. For what
it's worth, the dolphin show demonstrates a level of trust and friendliness
between the fins and the trainers that indicates (to me at least) excellent
treatment of the fins by the humans. The underwater viewing windows look
into a tank with entrances and exits to other tanks that are not publically
viewable, so that the fins are on display only if they want to be. One of
the fins apparently has a habit of swimming past the viewing windows, and
hanging her tongue out at the humans on the other side of the glass. Fin
humor or derision? You decide.


Andrew Ragland
IFS Helpdesk Technical Writer, Trainer
All destinations are final. If you haven't gotten to where you're going,
you're not there yet.  --  George Carlin


Brian Betty <bbetty@glad.org> on 11/12/99 09:32:42 AM

Please respond to blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com

To:   blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
cc:
Subject:  [BLUE PLANET] - Stuffed Orca Doll




I must report that my foray to the New England Aquarium, while quite
penguinlicious, has left me bereft of stuffed orcas. There are no stuffed
orcas at NEAq.

There are, however, shiny blue New Zealish midget penguins. Real ones.
Which almost makes up for it.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:33 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Stuffed Orca Doll

I must report that my foray to the New England Aquarium, while quite
penguinlicious, has left me bereft of stuffed orcas. There are no stuffed
orcas at NEAq.

There are, however, shiny blue New Zealish midget penguins. Real ones.
Which almost makes up for it.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:27 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - D. Crackus Whorus

Kai Poh asked, "Brian, were you around on the list when we had the
discussion about the  dolphin crack whore player character in my old OSU
campaign?"

I *am* that crack whore. I type with beams of sound.

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 9:22 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency)

I wrote: "Incidentally, I've been all over Asia and consistent opinions on
Americans are scary ... they think we are heavily armed, violent, rude,
criminal people on one side and rich, kind, etc. on the other."

Jason wrote: "You mean you *aren't* ?!? Seriously though, if  you're
worried about Asian opinion you should see what the French as a whole seem
to think of you guys!"

You should see what I think of the French ... I recall a recent poll on how
often Europeans bathe, and I may never return to France. Of course, please
note I don't visit my cousins in Massachusetts too often, either ...
go, Southie!

 -  Monkeygod (8-0)

My big secret
is gonna hover over your life
-Fionna Apple
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From:	Michael Czaplinski [MCzaplinski@NPR.ORG]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 8:57 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

> From: Heivilin, Jim [mailto:banzai@missouri.edu]

> At 11:24 11/11/99 -0500, EndersWAR1@aol.com wrote:
> 
> ><< And you wouldn't believe the resentment some of 
> > them have for your intervention in WW2! >>
> 
>  Please don't start a flamewar with what's following.
> 
>  We *are* grateful. But let's face it, the US came to our 
> help because it
> served their interest.
> 
> >Like I just said....they'd all still be speaking German....
> 
>  I bet we'd speak Russian instead.

I vote we all speak Esperanto!

KLAATU BARADA NIKTO!!

What?  I said the words!!
 
>  Nothing is just black or white.

Except THE MALTESE FALCON.

Until Ted Turner got his crayons all over it.

MikeC, punchy but trying to defuse the tensions
with silliness
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 8:33 AM
To:	blue planet list (E-mail)
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - A reminder

Just a reminder gang.  If you have more than one email address and you
subscribe to the list, be sure to use that one to send to the list.  If you
don't the message gets sent to the list owner (me).  I try to send it on but
then you're name isn't on it, mine is.  Not a big deal but it does make my
job a little easier. 

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Heivilin
Webmaster, Biohazard Games 
http://www.biohazardgames.com
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From:	Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 8:31 AM
To:	blue planet list (E-mail)
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:07:54 +0100
To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
From: Jerome Darmont <jerome.darmont@univ-lyon2.fr>
Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

At 11:24 11/11/99 -0500, EndersWAR1@aol.com wrote:

><< And you wouldn't believe the resentment some of 
> them have for your intervention in WW2! >>

 Please don't start a flamewar with what's following.

 We *are* grateful. But let's face it, the US came to our help because it
served their interest.

>Like I just said....they'd all still be speaking German....

 I bet we'd speak Russian instead.

 Nothing is just black or white.


--------------------------------------------------------
Jerome DARMONT, ERIC, Universite Lumiere - Lyon 2
Bat. L, 5 Avenue Mendes-France, 69676 BRON Cedex, FRANCE
Tel.(33)478-774-492  mailto:jerome.darmont@univ-lyon2.fr
http://eric.univ-lyon2.fr/~jdarmont/
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From:	Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 5:16 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency

><< I'm a bit of a Monty Python fanatic, and that quote
> is, "I'm French!  Why do you think I have this
> outrageous accent - you silly English king" >>
>I stand corrected by the silly english Ka-nihg-ets...

"And you so-called 'Mr Arthur King'. I wave my private parts at your aunties,
you sons of 
an electric donkey-bottom-wiper, and call your door-opening request a silly
thing!"

Or words to that effect...

Christopher Gribbon
Vision Research Laboratories
Medical Sciences Institute
University of Dundee
Dundee DD1 5EH
UK

(01382) 344 229
____________________________________________________________________

"A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to
descry the cement of the universe.
He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!"

- WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity
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From:	Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk]
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 5:13 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - More spam from the newbie

>* A Squid PC wants to hide a few supply boxes underwater.  Knowing nothing
>about echolcation and being unable to find a doctor who can give me the
>appropriate surgical modifications to experiment on my own, how hard would
>these be to find?

I suppose (echolocation aside) that would depend on what the visibility was
like in the waters 
where they were hidden.

>* Have any GMs had difficulty incorporating dolphins/orca into thier games?
>I'm banning them for the short term.  But I'd like to keep future options
>open.

I also banned Cetacean characters for my first campaign. I thought (and still
do) that I should 
get some experience running them as NPCs before I figure how to handle them as
PCs.

>* Exactly how prevalent is AI?  I'm going under the assumption that
>Turing-level AI is common and that expert systems are unremarkable.

I seem to recall that AI as such doesn't really exist, although I could be
wrong.
And there is that whole thing about the Dyffed computer...

>* Hypothetical situation: I'm human (so far, no big stretch).  What do I
>need to scrape together diving apparatus beyond a diving bell?

Er ... some Scrip?
The equipment section of the rulebook has pretty much everything you'd need
included 
there.

>* Once again, thanks to all and thanks to Biohazard for such a cool setting.
>My only suggestion would be to remember that some of us may have rowed or
>sailed, but have no practical experience with the deep ocean.

I like the "Oceanography for Gamers" section of ther rulebook for that.

Christopher Gribbon
Vision Research Laboratories
Medical Sciences Institute
University of Dundee
Dundee DD1 5EH
UK

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"A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to
descry the cement of the universe.
He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!"

- WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity
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From:	EndersWAR1@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 12:58 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A World of Hurt

In a message dated 11/12/99 12:13:57 AM Central Standard Time, BIOHZD@aol.com 
writes:

<< >>>>We hope that Fluid Mechanics will be available in the early Spring, 
but 
 as should seem obvious, release dates in this industry are often only so 
much 
 voodoo?
  >>
Fine....I guess I am just eager to give you my money.....

"Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be 
stupid all the way!"-187

x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises
"In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king."
EndersWAR1@aol.com
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From:	BIOHZD@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 12:10 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re:  [BLUE PLANET] - More spam from the newbie

Hey Becker, 

You write:

Ok, my group's first BP game (using Shadowrun engine) will be starting
tonight.

>>>>Good luck...  

Perhaps more undersea habitations in the future?

>>>>Airlock will contain several. 

A Squid PC wants to hide a few supply boxes underwater.  Knowing nothing 
about echolcation and being unable to find a doctor who can give me the 
appropriate surgical modifications to experiment on my own, how hard would 
these be to find?

>>>>Easy to find by him or someone else? If he knows where they are, no 
problem. If someone else is looking for them, they will be a *lot* harder to 
find. Echolocation is often almost as directed as vision.

Have any GMs had difficulty incorporating dolphins/orca into thier games?

>>>>We find little problem at all. In fact, there is a cetacean in both of 
the playtest campaigns I am running. The versatility of remotes makes their 
full interaction and playability possible. I suspect remotes are more robust 
and diverse in our games than in most, but just wait until FluMech comes out. 
There will be a heavy empahsis on remote technology and teleoperation.   

 Exactly how prevalent is AI?  I'm going under the assumption that 
Turing-level AI is common and that expert systems are unremarkable.

>>>>Expert expert systems are the rule, and there are...ahem...no true AIs in 
BP. Check out BP 205, first column. 

* Hypothetical situation: I'm human (so far, no big stretch).  What do I need 
to scrape together diving apparatus beyond a diving bell?

>>>>Ah, not sure what you are asking???

My only suggestion would be to remember that some of us may have rowed or 
sailed, but have no practical experience with the deep ocean.

>>>>We did the best we could short of writing a textbook ; ).

Later, 

Jeff Barber
Biohazard Games  
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From:	BIOHZD@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 12:09 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A World of Hurt

Hey Ender, 

You write: 

When can we expect a new release of some kind for BP

>>>>We hope that Fluid Mechanics will be available in the early Spring, but 
as should seem obvious, release dates in this industry are often only so much 
voodoo?

Jeff Barber
Biohazard Games
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From:	BIOHZD@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 12:10 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Re: Rookie Question

Hey Brian, 

You write:

the poor soldier takes the terrible wound to the chest. It seems to me that 
all of the die rolls in the example which indicate that a wound effect 
applies are above the percentage given on the table, whereas the rules state 
that the die roll should be below the listed percentage for the effect to 
occur. I believe that the example is incorrect, but perhaps
I'm just confused - there is no mention of this page in the errata on the web 
site.

>>>>You are exactly right. I thought we caught this a while back, but I guess 
the correction never got posted to the errata. Yes, the rolls have to be 
below the listed percent for the effect to occur. This is actually one of the 
few times in BP that you want to rool low ; ). 

Thanks for the catch, 

Jeff Barber
Biohazard Games
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From:	BIOHZD@aol.com
Sent:	Friday, November 12, 1999 12:09 AM
To:	blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject:	[BLUE PLANET] - Re:  Sound Underwater

Hey Chris, 

You write: 

Is this difficulty because we don't have the aural
equipment to make the judgement, or merely because
we're used to doing those things in air and the
accoustics are different in the water?

>>>> Our brains determine the direction of a sound by the *slight* delay 
between when each ear receives the sound - the closer ear first, the further 
ear second. Because sound is so much faster underwater this delay becomes too 
small for our brains, which evolved in air, to detect.

Jeff Barber
Biohazard Games   
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