From: Andy Wills [andywills@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 11:12 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Archaeology/Paleontology Adventure Seed More commentary on the Archaeology/Paleontology Adventure... Spoiler Space Once Again For Chris (I don't think anyone else from my campaign is on this list). Well, this is turning out to be a pretty cool adventure idea. I'll definitely run a version of it when my gaming group returns to Blue Planet in a month or so. So, my ideas are aimed at my gaming group, but we could adapt it for a generic adventure, assuming its good enough. There are 3 surviving PCs in my Blue Planet game (the other four either died or were captured when they attempted to escape Bose Strand). Two of them have just made it to Westcape, while the third will soon. The two characters have just met a crackpot old bounty hunter riding around in a six-wheeled, carapaced jeep. That's where we stopped the campaign in August. So, I want to work from there. I think I will have the bounty hunter take the PCs to a small outpost in God's country of a few homesteads. There they will meet the crusty inhabitants, and have a chance to equip themselves, within reason(they lost almost everything in the escape). I probably will introduce some sort of Native/Incorp conflict, since the surviving PCs have strong native sympathies(one is even a member of Free Poseidon!) This also sets up the town to be massacred by the combat drone. On leaving the town, the PCs will be traveling somewhere, perhaps Hell's Basin, when their electronic equipment will suddenly fail. They will naturally try to repair it, but the cause of the problem is the buried Aborigine Combat Drone, which disrupts electronics around it. As they poke around, they will discover some human skeletons and Long John exposed by erosion from a nearby rockface. Yes, I know Long John only occurs underwater, but this is a special case, and it may have been taken by the earlier humans. With Long John around, my group will naturally dig it up, as well as the skeletons. Inspection of the skeletons will show them to not be human; in fact they are a precursor to humans. It will also show they all suffered violent, slashing deaths, like those inflicted by a large predator. The group will finish digging up the Long John about dusk, but the vehicle will be unable to start because of its proximity to the Combat Drone. The digging and removal of the Long John will awaken the Combat Drone, which will begin a hellacious night. The electronic disruption will foreshadow the drone's arrival--as nightvision goggles fizzle, leaving the PCs helpless. The drone will be cautious but extremely fast, trying to separate the PCs and attack them individually. The PCs may flee on foot, restart the jeep after distracting the drone and luring it away from the vehicle, or attempt to fight. Clever options will win, while fighting will cause the drone to find easier prey--such as the little outpost--unless the PCs are pushovers. But, at least one of my group members is always armed to the teeth, so I doubt that will happen. Leaving the Long John somewhere will temporarily placate the drone. If the PCs are clever, they may find some way of disabling or destroying the drone. If not, it will kill the entire outpost, which will be blamed on the natives. This will provide further adventure seeds for my group. As a last resort, I may have the Abos recapture the rogue drone. I don't really like this idea, because it makes the PCs spectators and reveals the Aborigines, which I haven't done yet. As a convention scenario, I can see several characters already--the native sympathizer, the crackpot bounty hunter w/ elephant gun, and the secret Vatican agent. I may suggest some of these for new characters, assuming my players like them. Enough for now. The brainstorming for this has been especially useful; I'd like to see other people's thoughts on this. -Andy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 10:00 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Archaeology/Paleontology Adventure Seed In a message dated 11/16/99 9:29:14 PM Central Standard Time, Ankfix@aol.com writes: << Nothing creates a bond amongst characters quite like sheer terror. ;-) >> Agreed...it can also lead to total anarchy "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:56 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Kraken Adventure Seed In a message dated 11/16/99 7:58:09 PM Central Standard Time, t_poh@hotmail.com writes: << See Dave Klegman's site >> and the URL is...... "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:52 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Distribution Problems Wotc really needs to be strangled at this point...I thought magic was an interesting game at the time, it was fairly original...but now with all the games out there and them buying everything, I at the point that I think we should start yelling anti trust at them...give microsoft a break so that I can get my damn free upgrades from them in a timely manner..... "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ankfix@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:26 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) In a message dated 11/16/99 9:09:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, t_poh@hotmail.com writes: > Interesting trivia: young Sammo and Jackie were in an early John Woo kung fu > > film, back when Woo still did kung fu films. And of course, Sammo studied > for a while under Bruce Lee, and appeared very briefly as one of the > nameless thugs Bruce knocks out in one of his old movies. > > Kai Poh > Malaysian Lagomorph Even more interesting (or trivial ;-) trivia: Sammo's facial scars are courtesy of Mr. Chan. Both grew up in the same rough part of town, and were once on opposite sides during a street fight. Or that's the way Jackie tells it, anyway... - Fixer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ankfix@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:21 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - The Archaeology/Paleontology Adventure Seed In a message dated 11/16/99 9:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, t_poh@hotmail.com writes: > This brainstorming has been great. This could be a neat scenario. I'd like > to nominate this scenario as a possibility for the 2000 convention season. > Maybe the bunch of us can work on this, expand and revise it, maybe add > additional optional threats like suggested (pirates, weather etc)... > > Kai Poh > Malaysian Lagomorph Hey, very cool idea! The scenario has everything a good con game needs: mystery, combat, horror, a common goal, more combat, and a showcase of the weird and wonderful side of Poseidon. This would even be a good way to meld a disparate group of PC's together. Nothing creates a bond amongst characters quite like sheer terror. ;-) - Fixer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:11 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Native Language Drift Brian wrote: >IMHO I was assuming a secondary levelling of stops from voice +/- to >aspirated +/- and a reduction of dipthongs / tripthongs to 'plain' vowels. >And a nice spelling reform, to boot. I only understood the last sentence of that. But I agree, Inglish needs standurdyzd speling. ;) Maybe take some ideas from Esperanto? Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Chris Stilson [crazycat@orcalink.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:05 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic > Yes - "uisge mhath" (pronounced "whiske vah") which *is* "whiskey" I thought it was "uisce bheatha"... (at least, that's what I was taught it was... and it's what I wrote in some of the song lyrics for my potential celt band). -- Chris the S *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:08 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic Brian said: >And doesn't 'sassenach' mean 'Saxon' ie 'Englisher'? Or am I just confused, >being American and all that? Just an ignorant Malaysian, but I heard somewhere that 'sassenach' means 'lowland barbarian' or something like that. It's what highlanders called everybody else, including other Scotsmen who didn't live in the highlands. Is this correct? Kai Poh Malaysian Sassenach ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:02 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) Jason asked: > Doesn't he do a lot of work with Jackie Chan as >well? I'm sure I saw his name in the directing credits for >Rush Hour or one of the other more recent ones. A talented >man indeed. (snippo) Yeah, Sammo directed MR NICE GUY, which, while EVEN more lacking in the storyline department than most Jackie movies, had some fun fights like at the construction yard, but fizzled at the end when Jackie defeated Australian baddie Richard Norton with a truck instead of a fistfight - a pity, since Norton is one of the best Western martial arts actors out there. Sammo had a cameo as the unfortunate bike messenger, remember... Interesting trivia: young Sammo and Jackie were in an early John Woo kung fu film, back when Woo still did kung fu films. And of course, Sammo studied for a while under Bruce Lee, and appeared very briefly as one of the nameless thugs Bruce knocks out in one of his old movies. Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 7:56 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - The Archaeology/Paleontology Adventure Seed Brian says some stuff I like: >SPOILERS for chris and whomever else is in Andy's campaign > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Or the worst thing - sure and have the combat drones, but then don't ever >let (living) humans see them. Blip on the horizon, consistent slaughter of >human outposts with those great Star Trek video memos ("It's coming back - >I don't know how much longer we can las***), and then the aboriginals waste >the drones out of sight of the pcs. This could be great stuff. But, er, what Star Trek vieo memos? What episode was this? >Naturally, the abos don't want human intervention - they want this old >system shut down without monkeys seeing them, so the characters, while >investigating, keep running into charged-up, aggressive abos intent on >running interference. Makes for one hell of a ball of wax - what the hell >is going on? What's burning human sites? Why are there all these >so-rare-as-almost-never-to-be-seen abos randomly attacking and then >leaving? Or maybe we get a glimpse of the combat, leading to another question: If those abos aren't attacking us, WHO THE HECK are they attacking?!? >But there's got to be some conclusion, right? Well, find some way to >declare the mystery 'unsolved' (distraction in the form of >pirates/storm/whatever) and then come back to the theme in the future. One particularly dramatic conclusion, the one I'd probably go with: The PCs finally manage to track down..._something_ and catch a brief glimpse of it resisting the abos' "reprogramming" (probably a malfunction due to its long hibernation). Have the abos appear to be _losing_ (which will scare the crap out of the PCs...seeing abos NOT in control of a situation) and perhaps the PCs get a chance to help the abos take out the berzerk combat drone. Naturally, the abos won't stay long enough to thank the PCs...the best they might do is just knock the PCs out with some halucinogenic chemical secretions. This brainstorming has been great. This could be a neat scenario. I'd like to nominate this scenario as a possibility for the 2000 convention season. Maybe the bunch of us can work on this, expand and revise it, maybe add additional optional threats like suggested (pirates, weather etc)... Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Tun Kai Poh [t_poh@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 7:46 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Kraken Adventure Seed Christopher Gribbon said: >SPOILER WARNING AGAIN > > > > > > > >There was that plot seed about the Vatican sending "agents" to see if >Poseidon was the >pre-biblical flood earth. I *think* it's in Archipelago, but I might be >wrong. I've wanted to things with that one, too. See Dave Klegman's site; there's an old plot hook I wrote about an expedition to Prime Meridian, possibly sponsored by the Vatican, to find a mysterious "Garden of Eden"... Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stuart Wells [stuart@thelieingman.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:42 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Distribution Problems It's strange that you guys in North America seem to have some problems with distribtion whereas over here in the UK I have no problems at all. Especially as the market over here has been in decline for sometime. We just have a handful of damn good stores. I suppose it helps having one or two major distributors that stock just about everything.... Do gamers in the states think that the whole Hasbro/ Wizards takeover will damage gaming? There seems to be alot of consolidation at the moment. Will it all damage Biohazard? Stuart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: UAS Lab User [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:20 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - On languages (was Introduction and Insurgency) Chris Stilson wrote: > > Try Gaelic. Incredibly easy grammar structure, incredibly difficult > pronunciation... I'd love to, but no one speaks it in Alaska (that I've found), and I refuse to try learning a language I can't hear someone speak. A real, live person. Tapes just don't do it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: UAS Lab User [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:16 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Distribution Problems Andy Wills wrote: > > You're probably aware of this, but Blue Planet has distribution > problems, at least in my area. The local game/comic store can't find > Blue Planet stuff on their list to special order--I know, I tried. And > they're fairly clued in, with games like Furry Pirates and Feng Shui. Distributers are dweebs. My local store can get Biohazard stuff (usually after a delay), but can't get a list of Atlas stuff. Go figure. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: UAS Lab User [jskln1@uas.alaska.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:13 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Stereotypes (was: Introduction & Insurgency) Christopher Sakal wrote: > > I wouldn't say that I'm defending politicians per se, > but my point is that the system is pretty much set up > to reward short-sightedness in the political arena, so > it's no big surprise that's what we get. Politicians > are human beuings (unless they also happen to be > lawyers ^_^) and they react in much the same way that > other people do, which is to say that the system > probably has more of an influence than the individual > politicans being stupid More than that, the American government was *designed* to be short-sighted - Jefferson, and later Jackson, were both firm believers in "the will of the people" ruling their elected representatives (as opposed to Hamilton, who thought that the elected should rule in the best interests of their constituents). Because of this, we have the House, whose members are replaced every two years, so that if the House does something unpopular, the result is swift and sure (theoretically). Even our chief executive only has a four-year term, and Jackson encouraged states to cut Governor's terms to two, to produce the same kind of accountability. The Senate is a bow to Hamilton; Constitutionally, Senators are appointed by their state legislatures (this was changed via an amendment) and they serve 6 yr terms - the net result is to insulate them from the people. The electoral college is supposed to do the same with the President. Electors are supposed to be selected by the same means the state elects its legislature, and they should choose the President themselves, as educated and well informed men of reason. Ah, hum. Well, I'll just shut up now. Mr. Can-you-tell-I'm-taking-political-philosophy Auberon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stuart Wells [stuart@thelieingman.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 2:44 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - On Gaellic Hello Currently we've been doing shed loads of research into Scotland, Gaellic and the universe. From what we gather is that there were the, Scoti Tribe or Dal Riada Scots, Celts of Irish descent. Before this the irish originally came from southern Italy and Sicily (amongst other places). The people of Scotland of course were mainly Picts probably from Scandinavia. However there was also a small race the Romans called the Attecoti, or the originals. The Attecoti were thought to be the original inhabitants of Britain. Liguistically the Irish language differed from Pictish and British, which were all derived from Celtic languages, through pronunciation. The differences are with the K sound in Irish is a P sound in British etc. The attecoti spoke a language which no one has managed to work out. Overall the whole area was an insane hotch potch. The irish were hugely influntial in what becomes wales....yata yata yata. It is all very confused. I hope this adds to the Gallic debate. Bye Stuart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 12:31 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - (off) On languages and chimanzees "No I didn't. Or is this one of the other 'Chris's, and I just missed the message?" Sumpin' is wacky with the messages I'm getting - I apologise for confusion, but I quoted the message I read as is. Can anyone tell me who wrote that? "I've also heard different things about the origin of Gaelic. As far as I am aware, it's a Germanic language that the british Celts picked up in southern germany before heading on to colonise the british isles. It largely died out in mainland Europe (even the other Celtic peoples like the Gauls didn't speak it). In fact, the Celts in Europe weren't really an ethnic type as such, but more of a technological revolution (namely iron production)." None of the 'ethnic groups' of Europe are properly so, in that sense. There was a sizable population already living in Europe before Indo-Europeans came rampaging through; genes moved, but not as a population moving into a void. When the Tocharians hit China, they had blue eyes and blond hair, but frozen mummies show an increased Asianisation over time as they interbred with locals. The same thing happened in European populations, only in their case the Indo-European language stuck with the incomers. Iron may well have provided the leverage that Celt speakers needed to wrest control of critical sources of political power like the salt mines of southern Germany. The Celtic branch is apparently more closely related to Italic (Latin and its long-dead sisters, like Sabellian and the badly-named Picenian B) and to Tocharian A & B (two recently-discovered cultures which died out in the second century CE which lived in what is now Xinjiang Provice, the People's Republic of China). The Germanic languages include many modern languages of Europe like English. I recommed the Ethnologue site to anyone interested in languages and their genetic relationships. "I read something else interesting somewhere. The "Great Apes" group includes Gorillas, Oran-Utangs, Chimpanzees, etc. - but, in actual fact, we are more closely related to Gorillas than Oran-Utangs are, so we should by all rights be in that classification too." How it is usually described is so: There are monkeys and then there are apes. "Apes" include only the following: -Gibbons (2 subspecies, I believe) -Orang-utans (Bornean and Sumatran varieties) -Gorillas (3 species) -Chimps (3 species: Chimps proper, Bonobos, and Humans). This new family tree is not well-accepted by the public because it is deeply offensive to so many people to be classified as a chimpanzee. It is generally accepted by well-respected bio-anthropologists, although some scientists would place humans closer to gorillas. This does not seem to be a wise choice because of the genetic work done over the last 15 years or so showing how very closely related humans and chimps/bonobos are. Chimps and Bonobos seem to have diverged from our own stock very recently, then were divided into the two differing subspecies soon after that by the arrival of a new river, the Congo, which cut them off from interbreeding. Selection pressure prompted a change: Bonobos don't share territory with gorillas and therefore have a wider food source in the form of edible leaves and grasses that chimps proper don't have. Bonobos look similar but act very, very differently from chimps: their sexual behavior is markedly like that of humans whereas chimp sexual behavior is not much like our own. "Yeah, but some might be "evolutions" of one language with little outside influence, whereas others (like English) are bizarre fusions of 2 or more languages. Some fellow-roleplayers at Glasgow Uni did 'English Language' as a degree, and they had to learn Norman French, Latin, Ancient Norse, Old English, Middle English, and several other odd languages.Some of them also knew Klingon, but that's a different story..." Well, it is rare that a language hasn't significant influence from others. There's nothing bizarre about English: it's paralleled by several other languages today. An example is Japanese, which has borrowed about 60% of its vocabulary from Chinese: a nice, neat parallel to English's relationship with Old French/Late Latin. And that's not the end of it. Study Akkadian and you need to study Sumerian, Elamite, Hittite, and a dozen other languages that influenced its grammar and vocabulary. Study Hebrew and you do the same, adding on Akkadian and others. Study French and should study Low Franconian ("Frankish"), Latin/Romance, Celtic languages, and others, all of which had significant effects on French. Study Finnish and you find it has borrowed words from Iranian (yep.), Old High German, Old Norse, Russian, and even English, and its grammar shows areal relationships with North Germanic ("Scandinavian"). Even Chinese is heavily "loan-worded" - Indo-European gave 'honey,' 'bee,' 'yoke,' and a bunch of others milennia ago, and there are significant loans from other languages (many of which have subsequently died out). Indeed, modern Chinese languages borrowed significantly from each other as the political climate changed over the last 2,000 years. Anyway, enough about English. Let's talk about NuInklish! - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 12:05 PM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic >I wrote: "What aboot 'uisc eag'? > >CG asked, "Do you mean "Uisge Mhath"? (which is, for others' benefit, "The >Water of Life" - the "mhath" part meaning, "life" or "health"; "Slainthe >Mhath" meaning "good health" and is a traditional toast)" > >No, I meant WHISKEY! Which means 'water of life.' Although I think it's >spelled UISG in Scots Gaelic and UISC in Irish Gaelic, and I can't remember >the second word to save my life. Yes - "uisge mhath" (pronounced "whiske vah") which *is* "whiskey" Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 11:55 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic I wrote: "What aboot 'uisc eag'? CG asked, "Do you mean "Uisge Mhath"? (which is, for others' benefit, "The Water of Life" - the "mhath" part meaning, "life" or "health"; "Slainthe Mhath" meaning "good health" and is a traditional toast)" No, I meant WHISKEY! Which means 'water of life.' Although I think it's spelled UISG in Scots Gaelic and UISC in Irish Gaelic, and I can't remember the second word to save my life. your friendly neighborhood mongrel, Brian Patrick Betty of the Dublin Scots-Irish Orangemen Bettys the German Petzschkes of Peceneg (Turkic) extraction, and the Kentucian Cherokee-exslave Johnson families. (*whew*) - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 11:46 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - On languages and chimanzees >Chris wrote: "By the way, Gaelic is what some linguists are currently >thinking is the direct descendent of the original indo-european language >(not that it's saying very much... they used to think that German and >Nordic were the originators, too)." No I didn't. Or is this one of the other 'Chris's, and I just missed the message? I've also heard different things about the origin of Gaelic. As far as I am aware, it's a Germanic language that the british Celts picked up in southern germany before heading on to colonise the british isles. It largely died out in mainland Europe (even the other Celtic peoples like the Gauls didn't speak it). In fact, the Celts in Europe weren't really an ethnic type as such, but more of a technological revolution (namely iron production). >That's a little ... um ... inaccurate. It's sort of like the old (false) >analogy of thinking that chimpanzees are what the common ancestor of chimps >and humans looked like, which just ain't true. That whole "ape-like ancestor" common to both Apes and us thing. >For example, our common >ancestor apparently walked around quite a lot and had long legs, and its >face was not very chimplike at all. I read something else interesting somewhere. The "Great Apes" group includes Gorillas, Oran-Utangs, Chimpanzees, etc. - but, in actual fact, we are more closely related to Gorillas than Oran-Utangs are, so we should by all rights be in that classification too. >Celtic underwent a radical change over time - lenition, gender, etc. >There's no such thing as a MORE direct descendant - all languages are >direct descendants of their predecessors, n'est-ce pas? Yeah, but some might be "evolutions" of one language with little outside influence, whereas others (like English) are bizarre fusions of 2 or more languages. Some fellow-roleplayers at Glasgow Uni did 'English Language' as a degree, and they had to learn Norman French, Latin, Ancient Norse, Old English, Middle English, and several other odd languages. Some of them also knew Klingon, but that's a different story... Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 11:22 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic >What aboot 'uisc eag'? Do you mean "Uisge Mhath"? (which is, for others' benefit, "The Water of Life" - the "mhath" part meaning, "life" or "health"; "Slainthe Mhath" meaning "good health" and is a traditional toast) OK - so my megre Gaelic also stretches to a couple of other phrases (Ceude Mile Failte), but I can't really speak it at all. In my undergrad class in Glasgow Uni, there were a couple of girls from the Western Isles of Scotland who spoke Gaelic as their first language; at one memorable party, where everyone was *really* slaughtered, they forgot how to speak English - unfortunately, we were all too drunk to figure out why we couldn't understand each other. Very confusing. >And doesn't 'sassenach' mean 'Saxon' ie 'Englisher'? Or am I just confused, >being American and all that? It's generally taken to mean Englishman, but it actually referred to the lowlanders of southern Scotland. Or so I've been told by a genuine Gaelic speaker, anyway. >My parents go on vacation every year to Nova Scotia. Since they're old New >Englanders like me, they can't *stand* to go anywhere not within a stone's >throw of the ocean, and they don't like going South into the heat and >sometimes prejudicial attitudes they get there. So instead they head North. >But the real reason they like Nova Scotia is that they speak Gaelic there - >the only Gaelic-language University outside of the UK is there and my >father is of Orangeman extraction. I once saw a Billy Connely performance where he talked about the vaunted fame of Scottish explorers. He observed that wherever you go around the world, there will be Scots there - but only in the rainy, miserable bits. Land in Florida? - not miserable enough, go further north 'til you get to Nova Scotia or Canada! Land in Australia? too nice - go further south 'til you get to New Zealand! Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: araglan@us.ibm.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 10:06 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Jargon Jargon is basically coined words used for stuff that otherwise doesn't have a word, like "telnet" or "listserv", or for professional reasons, sometimes for efficiency of conversation and others to exclude outsiders. Slang is deliberately using a word to mean something else, or shortening and playing with words for effect, like saying something is "cool" when you like it, or referring to money as "bucks" or "toads". I'd classify "abos" as slang, and "Cleaners" as jargon. Andrew Ragland IFS Helpdesk Technical Writer, Trainer All destinations are final. If you haven't gotten to where you're going, you're not there yet. -- George Carlin Brian Betty on 11/16/99 09:30:54 AM Please respond to blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com cc: Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Jargon "Jargon would of couse be an exception for this. Anybody know the difference between jargon and slang?" Jargon is technical slang. Like hitmen calling evidence-removers Cleaners or BPers calling aboriginals abos. There is no technical difference, I think, but does someone else here know different? - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Rachel Kronick [rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 10:08 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Native Language Drift Brian Betty wrote: > > Jeff Barber wrote: "You ask a good question, making a realistic point about > linguistic changes in Native culture. It would have been cool/interesting, > but difficult to address this issue in the BP rules. Creating realistic > linguistic elements would have been outside Biohazard's various abilities, > and if done right (IMO) would have required a disproportionate number of > pages in the book. It would also be impractical to expect > moderators/players to actually learn linguistic rules and use them in play." > > I would be interested in discussing these issues with people as I have been > working for my own enjoyment on this issue. I'm not attempting to learn or > teach anything, but the notion intrigues me - I've been (for my own > pleasure) assuming the written standard of BP is New English - like the > half-artificial NyNorsk used in modern Scandinavia as a kind of neutral > standard. > > IMHO I was assuming a secondary levelling of stops from voice +/- to > aspirated +/- and a reduction of dipthongs / tripthongs to 'plain' vowels. > And a nice spelling reform, to boot. I work as an English teacher here in Taiwan (I know, an utterly stereotypical job -- I have an utterly unprofitable MA, it's my lot), so I have a lot of my own theories about the future of English. (I also have some theories about the future of the Chinese languages, but I assume there's less interest in that on the list.) I see the following happening (meaning both that I see it happening now, and I predict that it will continue to happen up to the years that BP is concerned with): - Perfect tenses die out. Even past tense starts to die. (How often do you use past perfect, anyway? And how many times have you heard someone use present tense to emphasize the immediacy and reality of something? "He shoots, he scores!" Eventually, I think this will become so common that it will lose all emphasis and just become a norm. Yep, tenses might just die out.) - Articles get lost altogether. - Possible loss of separate third-person singular verb forms. - Large reduction in vocabulary (many formal/informal distinctions between Latin/Germanic root words may get lost as one is chosen over the other). - A possible switch from subject based to topic based grammar. - Possible streamlining of prepositions. (What's the difference between burning up and burning down? Not much.) A lot of this is biased because of my students and my own peeves about English, but 1) my students do to a large extent represent the future 'customers' of the English language, and 2) I also see this sort of thing happening in CNN English and other widespread forms. I also strongly agree with what you say, at least what I understand of it. (Never did understand the difference between aspiration and voice.) I've toyed with the idea of trying to write some 'future poetry' or something... In my /Spheres/ campaign, there are whole genres of writing in "Mod English" (as I call it). Was this at all relevant to BP? I hope so... -- Rachel Kronick > > Anyone here understand a word of what I said? > - Monkeygod (8-0) > > My big secret > is gonna hover over your life > -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: araglan@us.ibm.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:55 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Metaplots/Big Secrets in BP [Long] Indeed. Cf. "Cube". I had to explain to my son (age 10) why some movies should not have sequels. Not all the mysteries should be explained; that's part of the fascination. Andrew Ragland IFS Helpdesk Technical Writer, Trainer All destinations are final. If you haven't gotten to where you're going, you're not there yet. -- George Carlin "Heivilin, Jim" on 11/16/99 09:09:43 AM Please respond to blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com To: "'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com'" cc: Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Metaplots/Big Secrets in BP [Long] There was a book which came out quite a bit later on called "Probe". I forget who wrote it but after reading it I was left a little dry. They tried to add to the mystery and then resolve it. I don't think it was too terribly successful. Let our imagination go and leave it at that. So many mediums (movies, books, etc.) believe they have to answer *all* the questions by the end. Not true. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:37 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Metaplots/Big Secrets in BP [Long] Not that I want to defend this mindset, but I believe that much of the attidude that gamesrs get when the metaplot of a game they like takes a turn they do not approve of is derived from the fact that they feel compelled to keep up with ther metaplot in their games. While on one level that's a very flimsy complaint, as they are free to completely disregard the metaplot for their campaign, they may then find the choices of source material they can use to dwindle rapidly as the metaplot proceeds. This has the net effect of changing the game from a product they liked to one they do not, in which case I would say they are justified in showing some dissatisfaction. Not that anyone can tell a gaming company they have no right to change their product, or take the metaplot anywhere they choose, however, it is a customer's rioght to express dissatisfaction with a product. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Sakal [c_sakal@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:32 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) > Doesn't he do a lot of work with Jackie Chan as > well? I'm sure I saw his name in the directing > credits for > Rush Hour or one of the other more recent ones. A > talented man indeed. Actually, Samo Hung and Jackie Chan are childhood friends, they were raised and trained in the same opera (chinese opera is quite different from what we think of as opera here) company and have worked together a great deal since. And I my comment about watching Martial Law wasn't meant to reflect on Samo Hung acting or martial arts skills, but on the reprehensibly prro quality of the writing of the show. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:31 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Jargon "Jargon would of couse be an exception for this. Anybody know the difference between jargon and slang?" Jargon is technical slang. Like hitmen calling evidence-removers Cleaners or BPers calling aboriginals abos. There is no technical difference, I think, but does someone else here know different? - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:31 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:16:21 -0600 "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk] > > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) > > > > > Doesn't he do a lot of work with Jackie Chan as > > well? I'm sure I saw his name in the directing credits for > > Rush Hour or one of the other more recent ones. A talented > > man indeed. Actually, while not entirely related, I saw a > > programme once about Sumo wrestlers' training. They may > > look odd but they're still a lot more supple than most > > people I know! > > > He and Jackie and several others (five more) went to the Peking Opera School > where they learned martial arts and gymnastics and such. There was a name > (the seven ...) that they were given after they graduated and began to work > in films. This is entirely unrelated to anything on Blue Planet, but I thought I would share them anyway. There are two things I like about Jackie Chan. One is that he has set up his own training group for stunt men and that any of them injured in his films get their medical bills paid out of his own pocket. The second is more of an amusing triviality. Apparently when Jackie Chan was born his parents were very poor and tried to sell him to a doctor for 300 dollars. He's worth a little more than that now so I assume they don't regret not managing it. :) Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:28 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Metaplots/Big Secrets in BP [Long] On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:09:43 -0600 "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BIOHZD@aol.com [mailto:BIOHZD@aol.com] > > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Metaplots/Big Secrets in BP [Long] > > > > Just a few things that Jeff's comments stirred up. > > Surgeon General's Warning > ================ > Only my opinion. > ================ > > > > Let me offer an analogy: My brother and I like Nissan trucks, > > and this year there is a new paint color - a very bright > > lemon yellow. I think it rocks, but my brother hates it. > > My brother does not feel insulted or ripped off by > > Nissan. He would simply not buy that color vehicle. > > > Or if he didn't much like the color but still liked the vehicle, he could > buy it and then have whatever he wanted done to it at a body shop. Racing > stripes, two tone color scheme, etc. It's his truck (or his and the banks > and the bank doesn't care). I'd be wary of taking analogies too far at this point. > > > Let me offer another analogy. Remember the big > > "whale-song-cylinder-probe" in Star Trek 4. There was no > > explanation of it in the movie, no details, just > > > There was a book which came out quite a bit later on called "Probe". I > forget who wrote it but after reading it I was left a little dry. They > tried to add to the mystery and then resolve it. I don't think it was too > terribly successful. > > Let our imagination go and leave it at that. So many mediums (movies, > books, etc.) believe they have to answer *all* the questions by the end. > Not true. This is a good point. In fact, one of the only problems I have with the main rulebook is that the detailed information on the Aborigines is hard to miss. If it had been a section towards the end of the book then at least you could ask players not to go that far. As it is if somone is reading through then they need to sort of skip round it. > > > Several posts in the thread in question barked about price, > > and made it seem like metaplots were a scam to boost book > > sales. Well, just what is wrong with wanting to increase > > book sales? It seems like a lot of gamers would like to > > see companies give this stuff away. > > > The only consideration in my mind to the whole idea of boosting book sales > is value for money. I'm more than willing to spend the cash if I like what > I'm buying and a value what I've purchased. > > The overriding comments I've heard have been that there is a great deal of > value in our book. Even if you don't like the mechanics, the background is > there. In fact I've only heard (and that was pretty recent) one person who > didn't think that $27.95 was a good price for the value received. From > nearly three years of comments. Value for money is important, and I've been told I'm fairly vocal in proclaiming the value of Blue Planet. On another note, I also like to support the people making these good games. This means that even if Fluid Mechanics turned out to be utter rubbish I would probably still buy it anyway to carry on supporting you guys. Obviously with the hope that quality would improve again. I wouldn't do this indefinitely, admittedly, and probably not for most games (After all, students aren't renowned for the amount of money they have spare) but in a few cases I feel it to be worth it. > > I am always surprised that an RPG book over $20 is griped > > about, and yet people will drop $50 on the latest computer game > > with little thought. And, in the end, which provides more > > entertainment and replayability? For that matter, one RPG > > book can support a whole gaming group, while a single computer > > game usually supports only one player. > > > And what is becoming the model now (specifically with the online games) is > $50 for the game and then $10 a month for connection to the game server. > I'm into EverQuest right now. It was a cool idea and initially I thought > the execution was pretty good. Actually, I personally am coming more and more to dislike pricing of computer games. I find myself thinking back to when I could get a full price spectrum game for 3 pounds. Mind you, at the moment I have a friend working for Rebellion Games who offers me occasional freebies so that helps. :) Jason Posting too much to put off writing essays. "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Sean Michael Whipkey [highway@cstone.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:30 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Distribution Problems Brian McNeilly wrote: > because of distribution costs. Both ICE and Columbia Games no longer > use distribution channels, preferring to sell directly to the customer. Uh, AFAIK, ICE still uses some distributers, when possible; however, due to the fact that, for the most part, distributers tend to lie when they don't know the answer, they are forced by necessity to sell directly to their fans and to game stores. SeanMike at least, that's what I gathered after lunch with them yesterday...:) -- SeanMike Whipkey - highway@cstone.net - http://www.cstone.net Engineering Department, Cornerstone Networks, Inc. - 804.817.7000 HEY! Lay off the SeanMike! The man's a misunderstood visionary! - Kermit Labmonkey (aka Ryan Kimmet) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:22 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - On languages Chris wrote: "By the way, Gaelic is what some linguists are currently thinking is the direct descendent of the original indo-european language (not that it's saying very much... they used to think that German and Nordic were the originators, too)." That's a little ... um ... inaccurate. It's sort of like the old (false) analogy of thinking that chimpanzees are what the common ancestor of chimps and humans looked like, which just ain't true. For example, our common ancestor apparently walked around quite a lot and had long legs, and its face was not very chimplike at all. Celtic underwent a radical change over time - lenition, gender, etc. There's no such thing as a MORE direct descendant - all languages are direct descendants of their predecessors, n'est-ce pas? just my 2 memes worth. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Leif Magnar Kjønnøy [leifmk@pvv.ntnu.no] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:26 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - On languages On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, Brian Betty wrote: > Leif Magnar Kjønnøy wrote: "It's supposedly the only living language left > in Europe which is not part of the Indo-European family > > Basque (Euskara) is not the only non-Indo-European language in Europe! I > would Imagine y'all would call to mind the branches of Finno-Ugric extant > in Europe [...] Er, major brain fart. Of course I know that (living as I do in a country where a small but well-publicized minority speaks one of those languages, and two smaller and less well-publicized minorities speak two of the others, and complain that the one not-quite-so-small minority gets all the attention). Meant to say "southern Europe". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: araglan@us.ibm.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:18 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency Or consider Germany, where the northern and southern dialects have different names, and are both different from "proper" German (Norddeutsch, Plattdeutsch and Hochdeutsch, FYI). I'd suspect that a simple skill addition would take care of the game mechanics -- Poseidon Native Pidgin, or somesuch, if it's not already there (sorry, at work, books at home). Linguistic drift would have occurred, I would suspect, over the hundred years, enough to create a noticeable accent but not enough to create an incomprehensible dialect. Jargon would of couse be an exception for this. Anybody know the difference between jargon and slang? Andrew Ragland IFS Helpdesk Technical Writer, Trainer All destinations are final. If you haven't gotten to where you're going, you're not there yet. -- George Carlin Jason Hockley on 11/16/99 08:59:17 AM Please respond to blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com cc: Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:42:46 +0000 Christopher Gribbon wrote: > >>Russian: Not an easy language to learn. > > > >I didn't find that a difficulty at all; a few phenomes happen further > >down the throat, but the verbs are WAY easier than French (for a native > >English speaker, anyway). > > Unless you're a Scot. Apparently a lot of the difficulty is that whole 'rolling-your-Rs' thing. I feel silly to keep saying things like this when there are native French speakers on the list, but this is still a bit of a generalisation. France is a big (for Europe) country and there is a lot of variation in accents. I've had teachers from both the far north and the far south and the difference is very noticeable. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:15 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - On languages Leif Magnar Kjønnøy wrote: "It's supposedly the only living language left in Europe which is not part of the Indo-European family (except for Maltese, which is basically Arabic with a lot of Italian influence). Some linguists try to link it with the Caucasian language family, but there's not much evidence for that; it has no obvious relationship to any other known language." Basque (Euskara) is not the only non-Indo-European language in Europe! I would Imagine y'all would call to mind the branches of Finno-Ugric extant in Europe (thanks to the Ethnologue http://www.sil.org/ethnologue/families/Uralic.html ): you'll notice that some are from Asia, but a large percentage from Europe. (The number indicates how many subgroups in the next level of the chart) Uralic Family (34) Finno-Ugric Group (28) Finno-Permic Subgroup(25) Finno-Cheremisic Family (22) Cheremisic Languages(2) MARI, HIGH [MRJ] (Russia, Europe) MARI, LOW [MAL] (Russia, Europe) Finno-Mordvinic Family (20) Finno-Lappic Languages (18) Balto-Finnic (9) ESTONIAN [EST] (Estonia) FINNISH [FIN] (Finland) INGRIAN [IZH] (Russia, Europe) KARELIAN [KRL] (Russia, Europe) LIV [LIV] (Latvia) LIVVI [OLO] (Russia, Europe) LUDIAN [LUD] (Russia, Europe) VEPS [VEP] (Russia, Europe) VOD [VOD] (Russia, Europe) Lappic (9) Central (3) SAAMI, KILDIN [LPD] (Russia, Europe) SAAMI, SKOLT [LPK] (Russia, Europe) SAAMI, TER [LPT] (Russia, Europe) Eastern (1) SAAMI, INARI [LPI] (Finland) Northern (1) SAAMI, NORTHERN [LPR] (Norway) Southern (4) SAAMI, LULE [LPL] (Sweden) SAAMI, PITE [LPB] (Sweden) SAAMI, SOUTHERN [LPC] (Sweden) SAAMI, UME [LPU] (Sweden) Mordvinic (2) ERZYA [MYV] (Russia, Europe) MOKSHA [MDF] (Russia, Europe) Permic (3) KOMI-PERMYAK [KOI] (Russia, Europe) KOMI-ZYRIAN [KPV] (Russia, Europe) UDMURT [UDM] (Russia, Europe) Ugric (3) Hungarian (1) HUNGARIAN [HNG] (Hungary) Ob Ugric (2) KHANTY [KCA] (Russia, Asia) MANSI [MNS] (Russia, Asia) Samoyedic (6) Northern Samoyedic (3) ENETS [ENE] (Russia, Asia) NENETS [YRK] (Russia, Asia) NGANASAN [NIO] (Russia, Asia) Southern Samoyedic (3) KAMAS [XAS] (Russia, Asia) MATOR [MTM] (Russia, Asia) SELKUP [SAK] (Russia, Asia) You can get information on the world languages on several sites, including the Linguist List ( http://linguistlist.org/languages.html ) and on Ethnologue. Pretty cool, lah. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:16 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk] > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) > > Doesn't he do a lot of work with Jackie Chan as > well? I'm sure I saw his name in the directing credits for > Rush Hour or one of the other more recent ones. A talented > man indeed. Actually, while not entirely related, I saw a > programme once about Sumo wrestlers' training. They may > look odd but they're still a lot more supple than most > people I know! > He and Jackie and several others (five more) went to the Peking Opera School where they learned martial arts and gymnastics and such. There was a name (the seven ...) that they were given after they graduated and began to work in films. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:10 AM To: 'blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com' Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Metaplots/Big Secrets in BP [Long] > -----Original Message----- > From: BIOHZD@aol.com [mailto:BIOHZD@aol.com] > Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Metaplots/Big Secrets in BP [Long] > Just a few things that Jeff's comments stirred up. Surgeon General's Warning ================ Only my opinion. ================ > Let me offer an analogy: My brother and I like Nissan trucks, > and this year there is a new paint color - a very bright > lemon yellow. I think it rocks, but my brother hates it. > My brother does not feel insulted or ripped off by > Nissan. He would simply not buy that color vehicle. > Or if he didn't much like the color but still liked the vehicle, he could buy it and then have whatever he wanted done to it at a body shop. Racing stripes, two tone color scheme, etc. It's his truck (or his and the banks and the bank doesn't care). > Let me offer another analogy. Remember the big > "whale-song-cylinder-probe" in Star Trek 4. There was no > explanation of it in the movie, no details, just > There was a book which came out quite a bit later on called "Probe". I forget who wrote it but after reading it I was left a little dry. They tried to add to the mystery and then resolve it. I don't think it was too terribly successful. Let our imagination go and leave it at that. So many mediums (movies, books, etc.) believe they have to answer *all* the questions by the end. Not true. > Several posts in the thread in question barked about price, > and made it seem like metaplots were a scam to boost book > sales. Well, just what is wrong with wanting to increase > book sales? It seems like a lot of gamers would like to > see companies give this stuff away. > The only consideration in my mind to the whole idea of boosting book sales is value for money. I'm more than willing to spend the cash if I like what I'm buying and a value what I've purchased. The overriding comments I've heard have been that there is a great deal of value in our book. Even if you don't like the mechanics, the background is there. In fact I've only heard (and that was pretty recent) one person who didn't think that $27.95 was a good price for the value received. From nearly three years of comments. > I am always surprised that an RPG book over $20 is griped > about, and yet people will drop $50 on the latest computer game > with little thought. And, in the end, which provides more > entertainment and replayability? For that matter, one RPG > book can support a whole gaming group, while a single computer > game usually supports only one player. > And what is becoming the model now (specifically with the online games) is $50 for the game and then $10 a month for connection to the game server. I'm into EverQuest right now. It was a cool idea and initially I thought the execution was pretty good. Lately the more I see of things (and the more I learn about programming) I've decided that the programmers are a) from a console background (and face it, a PC CPRG - or MMOLRPG - is NOT the same as a console game) b) not very good programmers (look at the login procedures and tell me that couldn't have been done better) c) not very good game designers (numerous problems within the game itself) But people who would complain to no end about an RPG are dropping tons of money on these guys. The message is clear. "We'll spend tons of money on a lame computer game." This message will result in more of the same (lame games). > Let's face it, the days of generic, open settings (a la > earlier versions of D&D or Traveler) are long gone. Specific > settings, rich with plot and story make for more > interesting games, more diversity in the market and more > choices for gamers. > I used to (years ago) do a lot of work with Traveler. But to get any sort of stock pile of material done took a ton of work (since everything was so open ended). As I matured as a roleplayer my tastes have changed from the "wandering all over the sector" to the "way cool plot idea, well executed". Both take a lot of work but having a well done background makes the second easier. Jim Jim Heivilin, Project Manager Systems & Applications Group, IAT Services University of Missouri at Columbia mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 884-3898 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: EndersWAR1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:07 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Archaeology Adventure Seeds In a message dated 11/16/99 8:45:16 AM Central Standard Time, bbetty@glad.org writes: << But there's got to be some conclusion, right? Well, find some way to declare the mystery 'unsolved' (distraction in the form of pirates/storm/whatever) and then come back to the theme in the future. >> This worked well in my SpaceMaster Campaign when I introduced Yautja (Predators) imagine comming home from a hard day as a beat cop to find your girlfriend (The corporate security Team leader hung from the ceiling with all her lovely, soft skin lying in a pile on the floor and the skull that contained the brain that you were so attracted to missing completely...and then over the next 2 months one after another, all your combat profession friends getting wasted in equally grisly ways...let me tell you, after 3 weeks of this the PCs were going friggin bananas... "Come on, Ceasar, if your going to be stupid, don't be half-assed stupid...Be stupid all the way!"-187 x) <---Dead Cyclops Enterprises "In the land of the two-eyed blind, the Dead Cyclops is king." EndersWAR1@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:02 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Meta-Plots and Self-Containment On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:03:50 +0000 "John M. Kahane" wrote: > >New information added to a setting by the development of a metaplot > >can create some of the same pitfalls, but again, I don't think the > >pitfalls are unique to metaplots. In Blue Planet at least, I also > >think it's fairly clear where the "undiscovered country" of the > >metaplot lies, so it's fairly easy for the GM to steer clear of the > >pitfalls. That said, we'll do our best to develop the metaplot in a > >way that doesn't totally disrupt your campaign. Short of releasing the > >entire Blue Planet Opus as a 12-volume set, I'm not sure what else we > >can do. An overview of where things are going is a possibility in a > >future release, but don't consider that a promise. > > That would be a neat thing to see in a future supplement, > although I don't consider it a necessity or something that is even > desireable when it comes right down to it. Sure, some of the > "undiscovered country" in BP is obvious, but that said, there are > folks out there I'm sure who have no clue as to where things might be > leading. But an adroit enough driver can steer around these > pitfalls, as long as he or she sees them coming in advance... > That's the real key to GMing, of course: thinking ahead. :) You know, this reminds me of something. I was looking over the maps of Poseidon in the main rulebook yesterday. I haven't looked at them properly for a long time and I suddenly realised just how much "uncharted territory" there still is in the game. It's a whole bloody planet and so far only the Pacifica Archipeligo has been dealt with in detail! This must provide a little leeway at least. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:59 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Native Language Drift Jeff Barber wrote: "You ask a good question, making a realistic point about linguistic changes in Native culture. It would have been cool/interesting, but difficult to address this issue in the BP rules. Creating realistic linguistic elements would have been outside Biohazard's various abilities, and if done right (IMO) would have required a disproportionate number of pages in the book. It would also be impractical to expect moderators/players to actually learn linguistic rules and use them in play." I would be interested in discussing these issues with people as I have been working for my own enjoyment on this issue. I'm not attempting to learn or teach anything, but the notion intrigues me - I've been (for my own pleasure) assuming the written standard of BP is New English - like the half-artificial NyNorsk used in modern Scandinavia as a kind of neutral standard. IMHO I was assuming a secondary levelling of stops from voice +/- to aspirated +/- and a reduction of dipthongs / tripthongs to 'plain' vowels. And a nice spelling reform, to boot. Anyone here understand a word of what I said? - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: araglan@us.ibm.com Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 9:01 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Meta-Plots What about Earthdawn? It had a massive meta-plot going, and I thought it developed quite well through the sourcebooks and published adventures. Blue Planet is still to some extent in its inancy; I'd give its meta-plot time to evolve. The next couple of sourcebooks will be the proof of whether Biohazard can do it well. Proof in the pudding and all that. As far as meta-plot effect on campaigns, my Earthdawn campaign veered wildly off from the official timeline, largely because of player actions. One of the parties managed to head off the battle that would have started the Throal-Thera War and the Throalic Revolution. Both still happened, but much later and under radically different circumstances. I like having a metaplot; sometimes I just don't have time to develop all the gameworld details, andhaving an extant timeline makes my job as GM much easier. Andrew Ragland IFS Helpdesk Technical Writer, Trainer All destinations are final. If you haven't gotten to where you're going, you're not there yet. -- George Carlin "John M. Kahane" on 11/15/99 09:52:45 AM Please respond to blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com To: "blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com" cc: Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Meta-Plots Hullo, Kai, Frankly, the meta-plot seems to be something that very few roleplaying games do. And those that do them don't do them all that well. TRIBE 8 is an rpg that does this meta-plot very well, as does BLUE PLANET, but we're still largely in the dark about both meta-plots. Some GMs like this kind of thing, others don't. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:59 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:42:46 +0000 Christopher Gribbon wrote: > >>Russian: Not an easy language to learn. > > > >I didn't find that a difficulty at all; a few phenomes happen further > >down the throat, but the verbs are WAY easier than French (for a native > >English speaker, anyway). > > Unless you're a Scot. Apparently a lot of the difficulty is that whole 'rolling-your-Rs' thing. I feel silly to keep saying things like this when there are native French speakers on the list, but this is still a bit of a generalisation. France is a big (for Europe) country and there is a lot of variation in accents. I've had teachers from both the far north and the far south and the difference is very noticeable. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:57 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Kentucky (was: Stereotypes) On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:51:43 +0100 (CET) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Leif_Magnar_Kj=F8nn=F8y?= wrote: > Hey, I lived in central Kentucky for a year. Foreign exchange student in > high school, 1989-90. Town called Berea, on what would be considered the > outskirts of hillbilly country. Beautiful countryside, lots of purty > young ladies. Too darn far from the ocean for my tastes though (descended > as I am from a long line of fishermen etc. and grown up as I have in and > around boats, which probably goes some way to explain why I'm so enamoured > of Blue Planet). You know, I can sympathise with that. For the first 8 years of my life I lived near the coast in Dorset (in England for you Yanks). A little down the road was Bournemouth, where you could see all the touristy type stuff with beautiful beaches if you knew where to look an (at that time) very clean seawater. In the other direction, but still close, was Poole, which had a pretty active harbour and fishing community. Now I live in Brussels which is about 100 kilometres from the nearest coast. The sound of flags slapping against the flagpoles gets me and my father homesick. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:51 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic Christopher Gribbon wrote: "Alas, that (and "Slanthe Mhath") is about as far as my Gaelic goes. But I'm a Sassenach lowlander (as opposed to Englishman) anyway, so I've no real justifaction to learn it." What aboot 'uisc eag'? And doesn't 'sassenach' mean 'Saxon' ie 'Englisher'? Or am I just confused, being American and all that? My parents go on vacation every year to Nova Scotia. Since they're old New Englanders like me, they can't *stand* to go anywhere not within a stone's throw of the ocean, and they don't like going South into the heat and sometimes prejudicial attitudes they get there. So instead they head North. But the real reason they like Nova Scotia is that they speak Gaelic there - the only Gaelic-language University outside of the UK is there and my father is of Orangeman extraction. - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:54 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:55:12 -0600 "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk] > > Subject: Re: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Introduction and Insurgency > > > > > Depending on when this was they may have been > > having problems with terrorists too. When I pass through > > > Circa 1987 or so. Ah. That was a little before all that then. Before the EU started getting serious about the "no passport needed" bit too. Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Jason Hockley [jh39@ukc.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:52 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Sammo (was: Landsrechts) On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:53:33 -0600 "Heivilin, Jim" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jason Hockley [mailto:jh39@ukc.ac.uk] > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Landsrechts (was "Flame the > > newbie!") > > > > On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:49:07 -0500 Chris Sakal > > wrote: > > > >Take a good look at Sammo Hung. > > > > > > > >Then watch one of his movies or his tv show. > > > But if you do watch the TV show, do yourself a > > > favor and turn the volume off ^_^. > > > > Actually I watched one episode of "Martial Law" (If > > I've remembered the title correctly.) and I would have to > > agree with that. Most of the films I've seen him in are > > pretty good though. Your point is taken. > > > If you look at his work (say on imdb.com) you'll see he's done a *lot* of > directing and (maybe) some producing as well as starring in these films. A > very talented man. Doesn't he do a lot of work with Jackie Chan as well? I'm sure I saw his name in the directing credits for Rush Hour or one of the other more recent ones. A talented man indeed. Actually, while not entirely related, I saw a programme once about Sumo wrestlers' training. They may look odd but they're still a lot more supple than most people I know! Jason "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Robert A. Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Brian Betty [bbetty@glad.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:39 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Archaeology Adventure Seeds SPOILERS for chris and whomever else is in Andy's campaign ...THAT CAN ETERNAL LIE (SPOILER for Archipelago's Kraken Access Denied, as well as the UC 5/6 adventure) "When I (probably) run this, I won't have the combat drones appear--once the PCs see what killed the humans, the horror element disappears. Rather, I will probably play up the horror aspect, to add subtle, ambiguous menace to the Aborigine mystery. However, by eliminating the combat drone part, I will need a plot. Oh well, something to think up later." Or the worst thing - sure and have the combat drones, but then don't ever let (living) humans see them. Blip on the horizon, consistent slaughter of human outposts with those great Star Trek video memos ("It's coming back - I don't know how much longer we can las***), and then the aboriginals waste the drones out of sight of the pcs. Naturally, the abos don't want human intervention - they want this old system shut down without monkeys seeing them, so the characters, while investigating, keep running into charged-up, aggressive abos intent on running interference. Makes for one hell of a ball of wax - what the hell is going on? What's burning human sites? Why are there all these so-rare-as-almost-never-to-be-seen abos randomly attacking and then leaving? But there's got to be some conclusion, right? Well, find some way to declare the mystery 'unsolved' (distraction in the form of pirates/storm/whatever) and then come back to the theme in the future. *brainstorming* - Monkeygod (8-0) My big secret is gonna hover over your life -Fionna Apple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:09 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic Oops. I just realised that most people won't get that (very rude of me) "Skubeigh Dubh" would be pronounced "Skooby Doo", and the "dubh" part is a genuine Gaelic word which means "black" - as in "Sgian Dubh" (the knife worn in your sock, with a kilt) or "Loch Dubh" the black loch, etc. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Leif Magnar Kjønnøy [leifmk@pvv.ntnu.no] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:50 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - On languages On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, Christopher Gribbon wrote: > The Basque people speak a *really* wierd language. "Uskere" or > "Uskade" (one is the language, the other is the people, and I've > probably spelt it wrongly anyway) is what it's called, and linguists > are thoroughly confused as to where it came from. It's supposedly the only living language left in Europe which is not part of the Indo-European family (except for Maltese, which is basically Arabic with a lot of Italian influence). Some linguists try to link it with the Caucasian language family, but there's not much evidence for that; it has no obvious relationship to any other known language. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:40 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Kraken Adventure Seed SPOILER WARNING AGAIN >This idea just popped into my head upon reading this. It quite possibly >violates some of Biohazard's metaplot, but I still like it. Basically, >instead of "all land animals of their era," the fossils discovered are >human predecesors(Homo erectus are parallel to sapiens, no? but >something similar) A large number of them have been killed violently, by >that "superpredator." There was that plot seed about the Vatican sending "agents" to see if Poseidon was the pre-biblical flood earth. I *think* it's in Archipelago, but I might be wrong. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:38 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - On languages >Linguists postulate the existence of about 5 to 10 groups of languages >(indo-european, chamito-semitic, etc). The linguists also postulate that one >proto-language was at the root of these groups when human first started to >communicate with languages. In other words, there once was a language that >we would call indo-european from which all the indo-european languages >derive. The Basque people speak a *really* wierd language. "Uskere" or "Uskade" (one is the language, the other is the people, and I've probably spelt it wrongly anyway) is what it's called, and linguists are thoroughly confused as to where it came from. Some people theorise that it was invented and enforced in order to give the Basques a national identity, others that it is a remnant of the root european language that was spoken before all us "non-wheat-agglutanin-allergic" types arrived on the scene. In Basque there is no generic word for "tree" or "animal" or anything similar - only different words for different types of plant and animal. And the structure is really wierd: instead of saying "I am turning", they say "It is in the act of turning that you are finding me now" Bizarre or what? Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:30 AM To: blue_planet@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Gaelic >Try Gaelic. Incredibly easy grammar structure, incredibly difficult >pronunciation... I was at a Ceilidh the other day with a band calld ... wait for it ... Skubeigh Dubh Alas, that (and "Slanthe Mhath") is about as far as my Gaelic goes. But I'm a Sassenach lowlander (as opposed to Englishman) anyway, so I've no real justifaction to learn it. Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.