From: Christopher Gribbon [c.gribbon@dundee.ac.uk] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 6:53 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Vacuum nastiness I have read several "fictional depictions" of Vacuum exposure - as well as a plethora of RPG "rules" for it - and the way I would treat it would be: [1] your eardrums rupture. Ouch! [2] you'd better not be holding your breath - or your lungs will rupture with the pressure - and you'll drown in your own blood even if you get back into a pressurised environment. [3] even if you aren't holding your breath - you *will* start to bleed from all exposed mucous membranes (eyelids, nose, mouth, other orifices). [4] your skin will be being fried on the side exposed to the sun (or other source of heat - like that reflected from a moon, or other reflective body), and frozen on the other side. [5] you will definitely suffer from the bends - so watch out for heart-attacks and strokes. [6] even if your skin doesn't burst, your blood vessels probably will - causing extensive haemorraging under your skin (and such fun things as haemmarroids. Yum!) [7] 4 minutes of anoxia before probable irreversible brain damage. [8] then there's all that cosmic radiation to deal with - so even if you havn't died of vacuum exposure, you'll have radiation poisoning, and probably multiple cancers as well. Ick! The best RPG treatments of vacuum exposure I've read have been in in Trinity (white wolf) - the Lunar sourcebook, I think - and in the Cyberpunk "Near Orbit" supplement (which was reccomended to me by someone on this list over a year ago as the best until-BP-makes-their-own space supplement). Christopher Gribbon Vision Research Laboratories Medical Sciences Institute University of Dundee Dundee DD1 5EH UK (01382) 344 229 ____________________________________________________________________ "A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to descry the cement of the universe. He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" - WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Leif Magnar Kjønnøy [leifmk@pvv.ntnu.no] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 6:39 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Some remarks! On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Shannon Wiley wrote: > Correct. It can't prevent the body from Low Pressure, but it is an amazing > organ. It will stretch by something on the order of 1/4th it's total volume > without significant or irreversible damage (It'd probably hurt a lot > though). No, the biggest -immediate- danger to a human being exposed to hard > vacuum would be suffocation. Assuming someone could hold their breath and > remain conscious for 5 minutes, -then- they'd have to start worrying about > other problems (such as boiling blood or freezing to death). This sort of thing has been tested in reality: There have been animal experiments, and at least one human has suffered (and survived) a vacuum chamber accident. You can't hold your breath in vacuum; if you try, you'll just cause the little fiddly bits inside your lungs to rupture, which would be bad for you. If you should ever find yourself dumped into hard vacuum, *exhale* and try to use the brief time of consciousness you have to do something about your situation. You would only have a handful of seconds' worth of consciousness, because the blood passing through your lungs would be drained of oxygen, and the path it takes from the lungs to the brain is quite short. Ten to fifteen seconds and the deoxygenated blood gets to the brain, and it's lights out. From then on you could still be rescued and resuscitated within the next several minutes before permanent brain damage sets in (same as with a drowning victim, really). Your eardrums would probably burst due to the pressure differential, and so would lots of tiny capillaries below your skin. Inconvenient, but not life-threatening (nor likely lasting) injuries. It would take hours in vacuum for the water in your body to diffuse out and boil away, by the time *that* became a problem the point would be moot. In the Blue Planet universe, I wouldn't be surprised if spaceworkers got "brain oxygen reserve" biomods installed -- a small reservoir feeding oxygen into the bloodstream just before it entered the brain could extend the period of consciousness to several minutes, which could often make the whole difference. (Alternately a switchable "lung bypass" could feed the whole body from a larger reservoir). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dominic Mooney [dom@cybergoths.u-net.com] Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 8:06 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: RE: [BLUE PLANET] - Some remarks! >Pilots in the U.S. Air Force have flown unpressurized to altitudes where the >external Air Pressure is something on the order of .21 Atmospheres with no >ill effects. While this is certainly not a 'hard vacuum' it is 1/5th of the >Air Pressure at Sea Level. Maybe even lower pressures, but this is the only >one I can remember ever seeing 'hard' support for. Unfortunately, I can't >site the source because it was a High School text that's 7 years out of date >most likely... One of the NASA sites has an FAQ which covers explosive decompression. Unfortunately, I've lost the bookmark in a hard drive crash. Dom *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Malcolm Craig [malcolmcraig@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 7:19 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - A Campain Hook...pls dont say its too cyberpunk Some good ideas here. For a similar kind of idea, I'd refer you to Virtual Light by William Gibson. Some great scenes from the book could be easily adapted to fit into a campaign such as this. The two Russian emigre cops make great NPCs (Incorporate security?). Cheers Malcolm >From: "Kerem Gozturk" >Reply-To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com >To: >Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - A Campain Hook...pls dont say its too cyberpunk >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:11:31 +0200 > >Here's a kind of hook for BP Campain. > >Our player (a going to be an eco terrorist type) is crashed by a Running >Man in a Crowded Street. The Man looks PC for a moment and continues his >escape from a Marshall. What he left in the ground is his expensive >sunglasses. It's PCs decision to take what's left from him. > >The glasses is the new product of .... (name it yourself) which enables the >users (or the ones registered for the item) to see people with their self >image reflected from mind. This system produces a higly addictive sutiation >that creates a new way of Art. > >If the player will try to use the glasses s/he will see very different >people around. But the one important here (NPC) is a //can't get the word >in english but meaning the small man//. Our small man will turn in to a >warrior dwarf of might. > >The man escaping from Marshall is a criminal tried to hack the system >described above to create a sub network for unofficial use. This sub >network will be used by underground groups who are not opposed to tech. and >mostly in criminal nature. I dont know the Project Manger of this if >someone has an idea pls share. > >But the system running is controlled by an higher level than the the hacker >in this scenerio expected. Thats why he is on the run at the moment. > >This protecter is an artificial intelligence tied by chains of a higher >level of control, human. AI probably can work in a superior mode which may >cause a disaster (NOT POSSIBLE without a sabotage). > >Back to the eco terrorists. >They say "It's the first step to turn Poseidon into a trash can, this >product should exterminated." > >Back to the AI. >May the Long John be the creator of it? >Is it a kind of thing like abos without a body? >Is it more likely to be killed by a sabotor than relased from the mental >prison. > > > >Molotov >kerem@gozturk.com > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Malcolm Craig [malcolmcraig@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 7:26 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Vacuum nastiness I'd agree about Deep Space being a good sourcebook for this sort of thing. For space stuff in geral it's actually not too bad at all. I'm not sure about the Trinity Luna Rising book, because although I bought it, I've not actually read it in much detail yet. Back when I ran 2300AD (ah, nostalgia!), the PCs went around decompressing ships like it was going out of fashion. This brings back memories of the "So, are the bad guys dead yet?" questions and arguements over alledged 'explosive' decompression. It seems like the BP mailing list is far better informed than I used be back in those days. Ah, the foolishness of youth. Sorry, kind of lapsed into meandering nonsense there. Cheers Malcolm >From: Christopher Gribbon >Reply-To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com >To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com >Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Vacuum nastiness >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:52:59 +0000 > >I have read several "fictional depictions" of Vacuum exposure - as well as >a plethora of RPG >"rules" for it - and the way I would treat it would be: > >[1] your eardrums rupture. Ouch! >[2] you'd better not be holding your breath - or your lungs will rupture >with the pressure - >and you'll drown in your own blood even if you get back into a pressurised >environment. >[3] even if you aren't holding your breath - you *will* start to bleed from >all exposed >mucous membranes (eyelids, nose, mouth, other orifices). >[4] your skin will be being fried on the side exposed to the sun (or other >source of heat - like >that reflected from a moon, or other reflective body), and frozen on the >other side. >[5] you will definitely suffer from the bends - so watch out for >heart-attacks and strokes. >[6] even if your skin doesn't burst, your blood vessels probably will - >causing extensive >haemorraging under your skin (and such fun things as haemmarroids. Yum!) >[7] 4 minutes of anoxia before probable irreversible brain damage. >[8] then there's all that cosmic radiation to deal with - so even if you >havn't died of vacuum >exposure, you'll have radiation poisoning, and probably multiple cancers as >well. > >Ick! > >The best RPG treatments of vacuum exposure I've read have been in in >Trinity (white wolf) >- the Lunar sourcebook, I think - and in the Cyberpunk "Near Orbit" >supplement (which was >reccomended to me by someone on this list over a year ago as the best >until-BP-makes-their-own space supplement). > >Christopher Gribbon >Vision Research Laboratories >Medical Sciences Institute >University of Dundee >Dundee DD1 5EH >UK > >(01382) 344 229 >____________________________________________________________________ > >"A scientist is meant to be disinterested, pure; his ambition merely to >descry the cement of the universe. >He isn't meant to use it to start laying his own patio!" > >- WILL SELF, The Quantity Theory of Insanity >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com >with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stephan Aspridis [aspridis@gmx.de] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 8:22 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - hello all!! Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself to this list. I played BPv1 two years ago, but due to numerous other things I worked/played on (and the !#@$ game system of BPv1) I somehow lost interest on this topic. Recently I bought the complete BPv2 product line and - well - am very impressed. The game system is awesome and the background as good as ever - IMO the best Hard SF background available in RPGs today. That's it for now, it's good to be "back in business" ;-) Stephan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Stephan Aspridis [aspridis@gmx.de] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 8:25 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - Lambda Serpentis System Here is some data I gathered from the Internet stellar database. The most interesting fact is IMO that Lambda Serpentis is actually a _binary_ system... Proper names: Lambda Serpentis, 27 Serpentis Catalog numbers: Gliese (Gl) 598, Henry Draper (HD) 141004, Bonner Durchmusterung (BD) +7°3023, Hipparcos Input Catalog (HIC) 77257, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory (SAO) 121186, Hoffleit Bright Star (HR) 5868, New Suspected Variable (NSV) 7246 Age: 7322 million years Standard error in age: 1% Source for age: Avg. of Barry and Edvardsson Heavy element abundance: 105% of Sol Standard error in heavy element abundance: 6% Source for heavy element abundance: Strobel [Fe/H] Determinations Arity: singular Right Ascention and Declination: 15h46m26.608s, 7°21'10.72" (epoch 2000.0) Distance from Sol: 38.36 light-years (11.75 parsecs) Standard error in distance: 0.9315% Source for distance: Hipparcos Galactic (X,Y,Z) coordinates in ly: 26.76, 7.647, 26.41 Proper motion: 0.241 arcsec/yr (250.9° from north) Radial Velocity: -68.5 km/sec Source for proper motion and radial velocity: Gliese Galactic (U,V,W) velocity components in km/s: -50.62, -25.21, -40.93 What do all these fields mean? NOTE: This star is actually a close-orbiting binary pair. The data below are for both sub-components of the pair combined. Spectral class: G0 Luminosity Class: V Apparent visual magnitude: +4.42 Absolute visual magnitude: +4.07 Visual luminosity: 2.049 x Sol Color indices: B-V= +0.60, U-B= +0.11, R-I= +0.20 Mass: 1.2 x Sol Diameter: 1.390 x Sol Comfort Zone: 1.431 A.U.s Orbital period in CZ: 1.56343 years Angular size of star in sky in CZ: 0.517497 degrees cya Stephan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Gareth Hanrahan [hanrahag@iol.ie] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 8:44 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Lambda Serpentis System > Here is some data I gathered from the Internet stellar database. The most > interesting fact is IMO that Lambda Serpentis is actually a _binary_ > system... Oops. You could possibly fudge it by saying that they picked up infrared from Cronus (Lambda Serpentis V), which glows brightly in the infrared. Or something. Alternatively, make it a mystery. Maybe the second star got sucked into that pesky rumoured second wormhole.... Heh, now I wanna write a scenario where a beautiful dame walks into a private detective's office in Haven, lights a cigarette, and puts a folder of astronomical data on the table.... >Stephan Gar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Ankfix@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 11:12 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - hello all!! In a message dated 12/10/00 9:26:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, aspridis@gmx.de writes: Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself to this list. Hello, Stephan, and welcome to the list. :-) Yeah, I agree, BP is probably the most detailed and well thought out hard SF gaming setting ever created. Heck, it even goes beyond that. I think BP could stand on it's own as a multimedia SF setting. The setting has enough dramatic tension, hard enough science, and strong enough themes to support a novel. The tech and background are way cool enough to support a movie or TV show. And there's more than enough stuff to fill a video/PC game (or four) with. There's a couple web sites you may want to check out. Stormsurge ( http://www.stormsurge.org ) has a ton of cool stuff for you to check out, plus some message boards. The Prosperity Station Yahoo! club ( http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/prosperitystation ) also has message boards and a chat room. The message boards have been a bit slow lately, but we're trying to gets enough folks to start up a play-by-post game over there. The chat room is used only infrequently, but some folks have used it for on-line BP games (although the Yahoo! chat app can be a bit...um...quirky at times. :-P) We've also had the honor of having the creators of BP drop in for a chat or two. :-) - Andy Fix (Fixer) From: Stephan Aspridis [aspridis@gmx.de] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 11:53 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Lambda Serpentis System Thinking about it, that shouldn't be a _too_ big problem: Following BP, Lambda Serpentis has 1.04 Solar Masses and a diameter of 1.1 Sol In reality, the mass of the two stars is 1.2 and the diameter 1.39, meaning that they are not only a close, but a _contact_ binary. The about only difference to BP canon would be that the sun in the sky would look like an egg rather than an orb (o.k., the life zone would be at around 1.4 AU but why bother). A handwaving method to explain that away could be (following your wormhole-theory) that the gravitational lens effect of the Serpentis wormhole made Hubble and Hipparcos and what-have-not _think_, it would be a binary system. cya Stephan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Hanrahan" To: Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Lambda Serpentis System > Oops. You could possibly fudge it by saying that they picked up infrared > >from Cronus (Lambda Serpentis V), which glows brightly in the infrared. Or > something. > Alternatively, make it a mystery. Maybe the second star got sucked into that > pesky rumoured second wormhole.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 11:55 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Some remarks! Leif Magnar Kjønnøy wrote: > In the Blue Planet universe, I wouldn't be surprised if spaceworkers got > "brain oxygen reserve" biomods installed -- a small reservoir feeding > oxygen into the bloodstream just before it entered the brain could extend > the period of consciousness to several minutes, which could often make the > whole difference. (Alternately a switchable "lung bypass" could feed the > whole body from a larger reservoir). That's a good idea. ;) Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 3:08 PM To: 'list, blue planet' Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - FW: postmaster autoresponse Hello Everyone, As the list owner I have a request. When you know you're going to be away from your email for a period of time I would appreciate it if you would unsubscribe from the list or switch to the digest. If you don't and if you set up your email to politely return a note to any emailers telling them you are out of the office, I get a ton of messages like this. Especially if the list suddenly becomes active. (and sending this note will start another autoreply heading toward my inbox ) Thanks, Jim Jim Heivilin, Webmaster Biohazard Games http://www.biohazardgames.com > -----Original Message----- > From: popusers@mailgate.noha-systems.com > [mailto:popusers@mailgate.noha-systems.com] > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 10:43 PM > Subject: postmaster autoresponse > > > > Hello owner-blue_planet, > > This is an automatically generated message for Eric Ducreux who is > out of the office until January 2001. Please be aware that Eric > will not be able to read your mail until he returns. > > Any Noha Systems support issues should be relayed to > > Gregor Anderson . > > > Regards, > > Noha Systems' Postmaster > -- > postmaster@noha-systems.com > http://www.noha-systems.com > > > Original message below: > ----------------------- > >When I read the Moderator´s guide I saw this picture on page16, with > the native school in the foreground.... > >isn`t there something wrong? Maybe some sort of artistic > expression. :) > > What are you referring to here? The gills? > > >I think a person in a vacuum will have much more severe problems than > the bends. > > Yes. As you note, the rapid evaporation of bodily fluids will > cause all > sorts of problems for the person in question. If you reread those > passages, though, I think you'll note that the intention being > communicated is not "being in a vacuum is just like having the bends", > its that you won't experience the type of explosive decompression you > see in some poorly researched SF flicks (where a person will literally > explode oncreen or somesuch). You won't even see the weird "bulging > eyes" effect that you saw in TOTAL RECALL. > > Justin Bacon > triad3204@aol.com > > ************************************************************** > ************* > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 3:16 PM To: 'list, blue planet' Subject: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Vacuum nastiness > -----Original Message----- > From: "Thomas Jeenicke" > To: > Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Vacuum nastiness > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:01:55 +0100 > > Christopher Gribbon wrote: > > >The best RPG treatments of vacuum exposure I've read have been in in > Trinity (white wolf) > >- the Lunar sourcebook, I think - and in the Cyberpunk "Near Orbit" > supplement (which was > >reccomended to me by someone on this list over a year ago as the best > >until-BP-makes-their-own space supplement). > > The Trinity text you are refering to is not in the Lunar > sourcebook, but in > "Hidden Agendas" (p.43/44). Their description of exposure to > vacuum is more > or less like yours. They don't provide a specific system of > game mechanics, > but suggest a very simple rule: If the unfortunate person > isn't safed almost > immediatly, he will die. And even if he is safed, he will be > in a *very* bad > condition and must spend the next weeks (at least) recovering. > > Thomas > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 12:34 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Some remarks! Dracondis wrote: > Please reference the movie 'Event Horizon' for the best on-screen depiction of > vacuum exposure in a modern film. Yes. I have many issues with EVENT HORIZON (beyond simple plot construction and character motivation problems) -- including, for example, the fact that a bunch of supposedly rational scientists discuss general relativity as if it were a holy writ and anyone who dares suggest that (gasp!) wormholes might exist is a heretic who is tampering with the natural order of the universe; but the depiction of vacuum exposure is a high point. This is an excellent example of the fact that -- just because you get your science right and your facts straight -- it doesn't mean you have to get rid of heroism or tension or dramatic impact. BID. 2001 should also be mentioned. Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.