From: stevie [Stephan.Aspridis@stud.uni-hannover.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 7:30 PM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hybrids >First, you don't teach soldiers to be emotional or pacifistic. Second, >Germany has the most professional and efficient armed forces in Europe and a Uh, oh. I served in the German army for a year, to be precise even in the "Krisenreaktionskraeften" (Crisis Response Forces). Well, maybe professionalism, but efficience is not exactly what springs to mind... IMHO if you want efficience, you must have a standing army of _willing_ people (it's not like they asked me whether I wanted or not). And don't - don't ever make this statement to a French (or worse, a Greek, for that matter). He will very likely feel obliged to prove otherwise ;) >cultural heritage of militarism and authoritarianism that, while abated by >experiences during this century, have existed since medieval times and will >likely resurface as the country faces increased instability in Eastern >Europe (particularly the Balkans) and a continued influx of immigrants. >(Neo-fascists have become increasingly vocal and violent in Germany in >recent years.) Granted. Militrarism and especially authoritarism could be attributed to be German "traits". But this goes both ways. We have not only annoyingly vocal and violent neo-fascists here, but neo-anarchists and neo-socialists, too. >I know this sounds pessimistic and gruff, but it is a realistic appraisal of >past and present trends. Keep in mind we're talking about a military culture >fostered by some of the most aggressive peoples in the world. Maybe "love for freedom" was the wrong word. I actually meant "individualism". Maybe the hybrids got a bit too much of that. They actually had (gasp) their own opinion about being soldiers. But you're right. It would be very interesting to envision the cultural "heritage" of the hybrids". IMHO they are very disciplined and feel obliged to do their duty, but they also are individualistic enough to determine for themselves, what that duty may could be and - talking about machismo/emotionalism - they prefer to be viewed as tough yet tend to show their emotions openly. Ciao, Stephan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16@pop.pitt.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:54 PM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hybrids >Why should there? Last time I checked, Germany is one of the most pacifistic countries west of Australia. How about that: German/Prussian Discipline along with a dash of Latin (no better word) emotionalism and American "love for freedom"? :)< First, you don't teach soldiers to be emotional or pacifistic. Second, Germany has the most professional and efficient armed forces in Europe and a cultural heritage of militarism and authoritarianism that, while abated by experiences during this century, have existed since medieval times and will likely resurface as the country faces increased instability in Eastern Europe (particularly the Balkans) and a continued influx of immigrants. (Neo-fascists have become increasingly vocal and violent in Germany in recent years.) Third, Latin machismo and emotionalism are a volatile combination. (The only warning I can offer is never disrespect a Latino's mother.) Fourth, the American "love of freedom" was never a major concern in Cuba (twice), Haiti (twice), Panama (twice again), Vietnam, or Iraq. "Big stick" militarism and shady politics and economics were the overriding considerations in these conflicts. I know this sounds pessimistic and gruff, but it is a realistic appraisal of past and present trends. Keep in mind we're talking about a military culture fostered by some of the most aggressive peoples in the world. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Robert P. Stefko [rpsst16@pop.pitt.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:11 PM To: blue_planet@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hybrids >Uh, oh. I served in the German army for a year, to be precise even in the "Krisenreaktionskraeften" (Crisis Response Forces). Well, maybe professionalism, but efficience is not exactly what springs to mind... IMHO if you want efficience, you must have a standing army of _willing_ people (it's not like they asked me whether I wanted or not). And don't - don't ever make this statement to a French (or worse, a Greek, for that matter). He will very likely feel obliged to prove otherwise ;)< According to "How to Make War" by James F. Dunnigan, the ranking of European military power as of 1995 is as follows: 1. Russia, 95 divisions, 28% quality rating. 2. Germany, 15 divisions, 75% quality rating. 3. Turkey, 24 divisions, 44% quality rating. 4. Sweden, 24 divisions, 43% quality rating. 5. France, 29 divisions, 40% quality rating. 6. U.K., 16 divisions, 53% quality rating. 7. Italy, 11 divisions, 52% quality rating. 8. Switzerland, 18 divisions, 40% quality rating. 9. Poland, 15 divisions, 47% quality rating. 10. Ukraine, 25 divisions, 18% quality rating. With quality rating a measure of leadership, equipment, support, training, etc. These numbers have probably changed slightly in the last three years as the former Soviet militaries (which I excluded from the rest of Europe) continue to deteriorate. So, while Germany does not have the largest military in Europe, it does has the most efficient and effective. Assuming no major disruption in the balance of power in Europe (unlikely if the EU solidifies), I don't see Germany's military superiority deteriorating anytime soon. After all, it took two World Wars and a forty-year occupation to bring it to its _current_ level. >Granted. Militrarism and especially authoritarism could be attributed to be German "traits". But this goes both ways. We have not only annoyingly vocal and violent neo-fascists here, but neo-anarchists and neo-socialists, too.< The Nazis were national socialists, and anarchism (as opposed to nihilism) is actually an extreme form of agrarian socialism. Most of the world's political radicals of the last century and a half have been socialists of one kind or another. The ideology is really irrelevant; what matters is the authoritarian mindset. >Maybe "love for freedom" was the wrong word. I actually meant "individualism". Maybe the hybrids got a bit too much of that. They actually had (gasp) their own opinion about being soldiers.< I won't comment on that issue, since I'm not entirely sure which side won the conformity battles of the last few decades. Also, I am not actually jumping to the conclusion that hybrids are macho fascist supermen, simply providing reasons why they could be. Determining their social, cultural, and political inclinations is the job of the guys at Biohazard (with some player input, of course). I can only speculate and extrapolate. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.