From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 11:33 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - [OT] Shadowfist and other CCGs ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - [OT] Shadowfist and other CCGs > > > RE: MtG WAS well-designed until they started overloading it with expansion > > sets. Now there are dozens of different cards that all perform essentially > > the same functions, with different rarities. Battletech is also reasonably > > well designed (unlike its boardgame counterpart), as is Rage. However, to > > the best of my knowledge both of those are dead too. > > I never played Battletech RE: Neither, apparently, did a lot of people. I only ever bought two decks because I couldn't find anyone else to play it. > but I Magic got really boring really fast. RE: It was big at elementary school for me, but once I left there it became exceedingly difficult to find someone to play against, and then once the collectability value decreased (right around the release of Homelands) I just stopped buying them. > Rage has promise, but also had some amazingly poor design decisions. I have a > billion cards for it, but I really wish it had been designed a bit better. RE: For a game based on a RPG setting it does a fairly good job though (notes that Werewolf has a number of poor design decisions too). I found the rules for Moots impossible to comprehend, however, and the alpha system of combat, though true for normal wolf packs, is slightly out of touch with the RPG and with good CCG procedure. It's really hard to do good CCGs from an established concept, unfortunately (I had the misfortune of playtesting the Wheel of Time CCG, which has some of the worst mechanics I have ever seen in a CCG). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 3:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - OT: D&D books eric baierl wrote: > Last thing I heard, yeah, Dark Sun was suppose to be coming out, we'll wee > if it actually happens. Planescape on the other hand has been absorbed > into cor dnd and made standard for all worlds. Your information is incorrect. There is no unifying planar cosmology for D&D any more. Planescape is merely one of many posible planar configurations. (This is a good thing, mind you.) Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 3:23 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hardcover supplements (was First Colony when?) Dracondis wrote: > > >Could be worse. D&D fans are paying 175% of the cost of a main rulebook for > > >their hardcover supplements (the FR supplement will clock in at $35). > > Not sure where you boys buy your games, but all three of my hardcover DND 3E > books were only $20 a pop, not $35. Knock, knock. Anybody home in there? If the FR supplement will cost $35 and is 175% the cost of a core D&D rulebooks, what would that make the cost of a core D&D rulebook? $20. Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Justin Bacon [triad@prairie.lakes.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 10:24 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hardcover supplements (was First Colony when?) kabael@softhome.net wrote: > > Otherwise people will react to the two books like Lot5R or 7th Sea > > which need a £40 GBP outlay. If you're a GM and interested in buying > > a system to try it that's a lot of money. A single £20 GBP volume is > > less daunting. > > 7th Sea always astounds me with it's low density of informatin, either > rules or setting. Ugh. L5R 2nd edition looks like it will be following > suit, sadly enough. Yes. There's a huge difference between "two books, for the price of two books, but with the content of one" and "two books with the content of two books". > I agree, calling the Moderator's Guide that really implied that it was a > bag o' rules, and not just lots and lots of setting. I mean I _like_ lots > of setting, but the title "Game Master's" Guide certainly carries a lot of > baggage with it ;) They went against the industry standard in labeling it the way they did -- and, of course, this resulted in misperceptions. They would have been far better off calling it the "World Book" or something -- especially considering the fact that both the rules and the setting are made totally accessible by the Player's Guide. Justin Bacon triad3204@aol.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:57 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - [OT] Shadowfist and other CCGs > RE: MtG WAS well-designed until they started overloading it with expansion > sets. Now there are dozens of different cards that all perform essentially > the same functions, with different rarities. Battletech is also reasonably > well designed (unlike its boardgame counterpart), as is Rage. However, to > the best of my knowledge both of those are dead too. I never played Battletech but I Magic got really boring really fast. Rage has promise, but also had some amazingly poor design decisions. I have a billion cards for it, but I really wish it had been designed a bit better. Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 Opinionated reviewer extraordinaire *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:00 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - [OT] Shadowfist and other CCGs > The only CCGs I've seen (and played) that I would call really well designed > are Vampire/Jyhad, NetRunner and Kult. And two out of three of 'em are dead RE: MtG WAS well-designed until they started overloading it with expansion sets. Now there are dozens of different cards that all perform essentially the same functions, with different rarities. Battletech is also reasonably well designed (unlike its boardgame counterpart), as is Rage. However, to the best of my knowledge both of those are dead too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: ChrisTheS [stormsurge@stormsurge.org] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:56 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hardcover supplements (was First Colony when?) > How does this usually work in other people's groups? Around here, if people > like a game, they usually end up buying the basic book. We have something > like a billion copies of Vampire Revised around here, for example. So > usually it's not just the GM who ends up buying stuff... RE: Well, with BP1 3 people in our group bought the book, and the same with the CORPS rulebook. However, in our group we generally lend the books out to each other on a fairly regular basis, so the only reason more than one person buys a book is if we're certain to need it regularly and can't afford to wait until someone else is done with it. > I agree, calling the Moderator's Guide that really implied that it was a > bag o' rules, and not just lots and lots of setting. I mean I _like_ lots > of setting, but the title "Game Master's" Guide certainly carries a lot of > baggage with it ;) RE: Not necessarily. The Alternity GMG just had alternate character creation methods, GMing advice, and some rules for creating alien species and mutant/FX powers (none of which is really essential). Whereas while you could technically play BP without the MG, the moderator would have to know a great deal about the setting in advance in order to do so properly. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: David R. Crowell [gpfarm-dave@northnet.org] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:01 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Play by Post Game Andy, no, no particular reason to do play-by-post. Glad you're interested. I'm just back from a week at my in-laws so I am familiar with crispy. Welcome back. --dave *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Atti2dboy@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 3:12 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hardcover supplements (was First Colony when?) In a message dated 12/28/00 10:09:03 AM, kabael@softhome.net writes: >How does this usually work in other people's groups? Around here, if people >like a game, they usually end up buying the basic book. That is how it worked in all of my previous gaming groups. My present gaming group has been using homebrew systems, so we get a rules update when the GM decides to type one up. Most people I know buy both the player's and moderator's books wo that they can get a feel for the setting as well as the rules. It is difficult to prepare a well- rounded character with only players' information. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 12:36 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - [OT] Shadowfist and other CCGs > Speaking as someone who has collected and played over 10 different CCGs > during the CCG boom period, and playtested for the now-defunct Shadowfist > CCG... actually, Shadowfist is back again, as far as I know. It was back at GenCon and my roommate was all a flutter because of it. speaking of CCG design though, has anyone ever played the Heresy CCG? I love the setting and the art, and there were some neat ideas in it, but it just never came together. Dark Age was similar, but worse. The only CCGs I've seen (and played) that I would call really well designed are Vampire/Jyhad, NetRunner and Kult. And two out of three of 'em are dead :( Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 Opinionated reviewer extraordinaire *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: kabael@softhome.net Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 12:28 PM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hardcover supplements (was First Colony when?) > >The main rulebook? Don't you mean the _three_ main rulebooks? With a $60 > >pricetag, $35 seems like a lot less :) > > That's the expenditure for GMs, rather than players... How does this usually work in other people's groups? Around here, if people like a game, they usually end up buying the basic book. We have something like a billion copies of Vampire Revised around here, for example. So usually it's not just the GM who ends up buying stuff... > Otherwise people will react to the two books like Lot5R or 7th Sea > which need a £40 GBP outlay. If you're a GM and interested in buying > a system to try it that's a lot of money. A single £20 GBP volume is > less daunting. 7th Sea always astounds me with it's low density of informatin, either rules or setting. Ugh. L5R 2nd edition looks like it will be following suit, sadly enough. > The Moderator's Guide is slightly misleading if you are used to them > containing rules (I think that the weather material is all that is in > the MG?). It took me about ten minutes of looking at the book to > realise this. Then i bought both on the basis that I could probably > slip Poseidon into Traveller if I didn't like the rules. I agree, calling the Moderator's Guide that really implied that it was a bag o' rules, and not just lots and lots of setting. I mean I _like_ lots of setting, but the title "Game Master's" Guide certainly carries a lot of baggage with it ;) > I think that something like the sticker is needed to help boost sales > more - it would be quite simple and effective. That's actually a really good idea, just make sure the sticker can be peeled off easily. Nothing pisses me off more than non-removable advertisement stickers. and did everyone's Players Guide have a sticker? I don't think the ones at GenCon had them... Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net - ICQ# 24193592 Opinionated reviewer extraordinaire *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 9:25 AM To: Blue Planet List (E-mail) Subject: [FWD] Re: [BLUE PLANET] - [FWD] Semi-off-topic: WotC layoffs... -----Original Message----- From: "Poh Tun Kai" To: Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - [FWD] Semi-off-topic: WotC layoffs... Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:04:35 -0500 > So...if you were doing a Blue Planet ccg, what aspect of the game would you > concentrate on? How about different incorporates trying to set up a colony > in the wilds of Poseidon. You'd play different resource-generating cards > (long john mine, fishery, fusion plant) to pay for new additions to the > colony (arcology, spaceport, Hugo-level computer) and to pay for stuff to > mess with your opponent (black ops strike teams, political pressure). There > would only be a limited amount of long john available.... Speaking as someone who has collected and played over 10 different CCGs during the CCG boom period, and playtested for the now-defunct Shadowfist CCG... Additional (non-incorporate) factions: Independent settler group - less access to the best tech, but they get GEO sponsorship, which means help from ERTs, GEO-provided gear, etc. They have prospectors to mine long john for them. Native group - Again, less access to tech, but they have the advantage of knowing their home ground, getting help from ecoterrorists and aborigines, etc. They might not have LJ for resources, which could prove to be a small game balance problem. > Hey, that sounds almost workable... Oh, it certainly is. Think multiplayer, and not dueling. More like Jyhad than say Magic. That also allows combat to be more tactical, with more cards dedicated just for fighting maneuvers and biomod upgrades to your characters... Now, someone just has to try and design it. :) Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Heivilin, Jim [banzai@missouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 9:19 AM To: Blue Planet List (E-mail) Subject: [BLUE PLANET] - [FWD] (off-topic) Holiday Greetings -----Original Message----- From: "Poh Tun Kai" To: Subject: (off-topic) Holiday Greetings Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:48:29 -0500 Season's greetings to all! Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Aidilfitri, and have a great New Year! Kai Poh Malaysian Lagomorph *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message. From: Dominic Mooney [dom@cybergoths.u-net.com] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 5:48 AM To: blue_planet@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: [BLUE PLANET] - Hardcover supplements (was First Colony when?) Derek Guder - kabael@softhome.net wrote: > > >Could be worse. D&D fans are paying 175% of the cost of a main >rulebook for > > >their hardcover supplements (the FR supplement will clock in at $35). > >The main rulebook? Don't you mean the _three_ main rulebooks? With a $60 >pricetag, $35 seems like a lot less :) That's the expenditure for GMs, rather than players... >As for BP, I'm not overly bothered by the cost, personally, but I am afraid >that a lot of other people would be. Hopefully we have nothing to fear. The Players Book needs a sticker adding to it that says 'everything you need to play is included in this volume'. Otherwise people will react to the two books like Lot5R or 7th Sea which need a £40 GBP outlay. If you're a GM and interested in buying a system to try it that's a lot of money. A single £20 GBP volume is less daunting. The Moderator's Guide is slightly misleading if you are used to them containing rules (I think that the weather material is all that is in the MG?). It took me about ten minutes of looking at the book to realise this. Then i bought both on the basis that I could probably slip Poseidon into Traveller if I didn't like the rules. I think that something like the sticker is needed to help boost sales more - it would be quite simple and effective. Dom (waiting for the arrival of First Colony in the UK) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe blue_planet' as the body of the message.